Best Shortstop of Each Division

[Mr. Bee]

Re: Best Shortstop of Each Division

I'll just speak of what I know the best

AL Central: Carlos Guillen

It isnt even close

[Brandwin]

Re: Best Shortstop of Each Division

Nice to see Young get some respect.

[Brandwin]

Re: Best Shortstop of Each Division

Nice to see Young get some respect.

[RaidersBaby]

Re: Best Shortstop of Each Division

Greene over Izturis?

Izturis is like the best fielder in baseball. That is funny. When you say best shortstop, the glove and turning DP's better have the same weight as batting. If not, then call it best hitting shortstop in each division.

I think this thread was started by a Greene fan to showcase his favorite player.

[RaidersBaby]

Re: Best Shortstop of Each Division

Greene over Izturis?

Izturis is like the best fielder in baseball. That is funny. When you say best shortstop, the glove and turning DP's better have the same weight as batting. If not, then call it best hitting shortstop in each division.

I think this thread was started by a Greene fan to showcase his favorite player.

[Gary Armida]

Re: Best Shortstop of Each Division

Those intangibles sure came into play last postseason during the ALCS, where he put up a .566 OPS (.333 OBP, .233 SLG), and made a couple errors (I couldn't find the exact number anywhere, but I think I remember there was two). And that diving play where he went into the stands? At least half of the shortstops make that play, including Miguel Tejada, without having to dive into the stands, as they have better range than Jeter. Granted, he sacrificed his body and all, I'm just saying it was a pretty over rated play.

While Jeter puts up a better OBP than Tejada, Tejada is a better fielder, puts up a better SLG% and OPS and last year, and put up a better batting average. The fact that Jeter has a better OBP may be because he had better protection, like Sheffield and A-Rod, although, Tejada protection wasn't to shabby with Lopez and Mora (though I don't know what the actual order was).

Here's both Jeter and Tejada's 3 year averages (in that order)

<table border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" width="772"> <tbody><tr bgcolor="#aaaaa4"><td class="SCHEDbold">Overall</td><td align="right">AB</td><td align="right">R</td><td align="right">H</td><td align="right">2B</td><td align="right">3B</td><td align="right">HR</td><td align="right">RBI</td><td align="right">BB</td><td align="right">HBP</td><td align="right">SO</td><td align="right">SB</td><td align="right">CS</td><td align="right">AVG</td><td align="right">OBP</td><td align="right">SLG</td><td align="right">OPS</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ccccc4"><td width="115">Total</td><td align="right">1769</td><td align="right">322</td><td align="right">535</td><td align="right">95
</td><td align="right">4
</td><td align="right">51
</td><td align="right">205
</td><td align="right">162
</td><td align="right">34
</td><td align="right">301
</td><td align="right">66
</td><td align="right">12
</td><td align="right">.302
</td><td align="right">.371
</td><td align="right">.447
</td><td align="right">.818</td></tr></tbody> </table> <table border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" width="772"> <tbody><tr bgcolor="#aaaaa4"><td class="SCHEDbold">Overall</td><td align="right">AB</td><td align="right">R</td><td align="right">H</td><td align="right">2B</td><td align="right">3B</td><td align="right">HR</td><td align="right">RBI</td><td align="right">BB</td><td align="right">HBP</td><td align="right">SO</td><td align="right">SB</td><td align="right">CS</td><td align="right">AVG</td><td align="right">OBP</td><td align="right">SLG</td><td align="right">OPS</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ccccc4"><td width="115">Total</td><td align="right">1951</td><td align="right">313</td><td align="right">584</td><td align="right">112
</td><td align="right">2
</td><td align="right">95
</td><td align="right">387
</td><td align="right">139
</td><td align="right">27
</td><td align="right">222
</td><td align="right">21
</td><td align="right">3
</td><td align="right">.299
</td><td align="right">.350
</td><td align="right">.505
</td><td align="right">.855</td></tr></tbody> </table>

"Intangibles" don't count for that much of a difference, in my opinion.

WOW!!! Way to jump on the one series were the numbers don't add up.
Tejada is the more talented player, but I would still take Jeter--intangibles, postseason, class, and absolutely zero steriods. Tejada is awesome but I do have my doubts about him leading a team.
It's like the Manning and Brady debate. Talent versus a winner. I take the winner all of the time. A famous coach once said, "You play to win the game".

[Gary Armida]

Re: Best Shortstop of Each Division

Those intangibles sure came into play last postseason during the ALCS, where he put up a .566 OPS (.333 OBP, .233 SLG), and made a couple errors (I couldn't find the exact number anywhere, but I think I remember there was two). And that diving play where he went into the stands? At least half of the shortstops make that play, including Miguel Tejada, without having to dive into the stands, as they have better range than Jeter. Granted, he sacrificed his body and all, I'm just saying it was a pretty over rated play.

While Jeter puts up a better OBP than Tejada, Tejada is a better fielder, puts up a better SLG% and OPS and last year, and put up a better batting average. The fact that Jeter has a better OBP may be because he had better protection, like Sheffield and A-Rod, although, Tejada protection wasn't to shabby with Lopez and Mora (though I don't know what the actual order was).

Here's both Jeter and Tejada's 3 year averages (in that order)

<table border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" width="772"> <tbody><tr bgcolor="#aaaaa4"><td class="SCHEDbold">Overall</td><td align="right">AB</td><td align="right">R</td><td align="right">H</td><td align="right">2B</td><td align="right">3B</td><td align="right">HR</td><td align="right">RBI</td><td align="right">BB</td><td align="right">HBP</td><td align="right">SO</td><td align="right">SB</td><td align="right">CS</td><td align="right">AVG</td><td align="right">OBP</td><td align="right">SLG</td><td align="right">OPS</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ccccc4"><td width="115">Total</td><td align="right">1769</td><td align="right">322</td><td align="right">535</td><td align="right">95
</td><td align="right">4
</td><td align="right">51
</td><td align="right">205
</td><td align="right">162
</td><td align="right">34
</td><td align="right">301
</td><td align="right">66
</td><td align="right">12
</td><td align="right">.302
</td><td align="right">.371
</td><td align="right">.447
</td><td align="right">.818</td></tr></tbody> </table> <table border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0" width="772"> <tbody><tr bgcolor="#aaaaa4"><td class="SCHEDbold">Overall</td><td align="right">AB</td><td align="right">R</td><td align="right">H</td><td align="right">2B</td><td align="right">3B</td><td align="right">HR</td><td align="right">RBI</td><td align="right">BB</td><td align="right">HBP</td><td align="right">SO</td><td align="right">SB</td><td align="right">CS</td><td align="right">AVG</td><td align="right">OBP</td><td align="right">SLG</td><td align="right">OPS</td></tr> <tr bgcolor="#ccccc4"><td width="115">Total</td><td align="right">1951</td><td align="right">313</td><td align="right">584</td><td align="right">112
</td><td align="right">2
</td><td align="right">95
</td><td align="right">387
</td><td align="right">139
</td><td align="right">27
</td><td align="right">222
</td><td align="right">21
</td><td align="right">3
</td><td align="right">.299
</td><td align="right">.350
</td><td align="right">.505
</td><td align="right">.855</td></tr></tbody> </table>

"Intangibles" don't count for that much of a difference, in my opinion.

WOW!!! Way to jump on the one series were the numbers don't add up.
Tejada is the more talented player, but I would still take Jeter--intangibles, postseason, class, and absolutely zero steriods. Tejada is awesome but I do have my doubts about him leading a team.
It's like the Manning and Brady debate. Talent versus a winner. I take the winner all of the time. A famous coach once said, "You play to win the game".

[Gary Armida]

Re: Best Shortstop of Each Division

Sorry in advance for getting a little off topic.

I felt that play against Oakland was over rated as well. It was a great flip and all, but it was more of a bad play on Jeremy Giambi's part not to slide. If Giambi isn't loafing his was to home the play wouldn't have even been close, and that highlight would just be considered a "nice try".

Somewhat agree, but what other Shortstop would be there. I played and now coach, and probably never will see that again in my life.

[Gary Armida]

Re: Best Shortstop of Each Division

Sorry in advance for getting a little off topic.

I felt that play against Oakland was over rated as well. It was a great flip and all, but it was more of a bad play on Jeremy Giambi's part not to slide. If Giambi isn't loafing his was to home the play wouldn't have even been close, and that highlight would just be considered a "nice try".

Somewhat agree, but what other Shortstop would be there. I played and now coach, and probably never will see that again in my life.

[SmUrFiNaToR]

Re: Best Shortstop of Each Division

Sorry in advance for getting a little off topic.

I felt that play against Oakland was over rated as well. It was a great flip and all, but it was more of a bad play on Jeremy Giambi's part not to slide. If Giambi isn't loafing his was to home the play wouldn't have even been close, and that highlight would just be considered a "nice try".

I won't deny that it was a poor play on Giambi's part but that's the point. While other players make crucial mistakes, most time we see Jeter capitalizing on them.

[SmUrFiNaToR]

Re: Best Shortstop of Each Division

Sorry in advance for getting a little off topic.

I felt that play against Oakland was over rated as well. It was a great flip and all, but it was more of a bad play on Jeremy Giambi's part not to slide. If Giambi isn't loafing his was to home the play wouldn't have even been close, and that highlight would just be considered a "nice try".

I won't deny that it was a poor play on Giambi's part but that's the point. While other players make crucial mistakes, most time we see Jeter capitalizing on them.

[BatsareBugs]

Re: Best Shortstop of Each Division

Greene over Izturis?

Izturis is like the best fielder in baseball. That is funny. When you say best shortstop, the glove and turning DP's better have the same weight as batting. If not, then call it best hitting shortstop in each division.

I think this thread was started by a Greene fan to showcase his favorite player.

Are you telling me that Khalil Greene is sir clank at short? Believe me, when I said his name a lot of people here know what I'm talking about. Don't let his errors mislead you. How about having all of them factor? I know Izturis is one of the best in the business at shortstop, but if he had kept up his offense last season I would give him the nod. That's the only way I'll give a Dodger a nod.

Sorry, read my post. Biasness accepted. And Khalil Greene isn't my favorite. Oliver Perez is. Next please.

[BatsareBugs]

Re: Best Shortstop of Each Division

Greene over Izturis?

Izturis is like the best fielder in baseball. That is funny. When you say best shortstop, the glove and turning DP's better have the same weight as batting. If not, then call it best hitting shortstop in each division.

I think this thread was started by a Greene fan to showcase his favorite player.

Are you telling me that Khalil Greene is sir clank at short? Believe me, when I said his name a lot of people here know what I'm talking about. Don't let his errors mislead you. How about having all of them factor? I know Izturis is one of the best in the business at shortstop, but if he had kept up his offense last season I would give him the nod. That's the only way I'll give a Dodger a nod.

Sorry, read my post. Biasness accepted. And Khalil Greene isn't my favorite. Oliver Perez is. Next please.

[DuffysCliff]

Re: Best Shortstop of Each Division

WOW!!! Way to jump on the one series were the numbers don't add up.
Tejada is the more talented player, but I would still take Jeter--intangibles, postseason, class, and absolutely zero steriods. Tejada is awesome but I do have my doubts about him leading a team.
It's like the Manning and Brady debate. Talent versus a winner. I take the winner all of the time. A famous coach once said, "You play to win the game".

I'll admit, I nitpicked a little when it came to bringing up last season's post season numbers, but still, my point is, he's not always the best player in the postseason.

From what I've seen and read, Tejada is actually a good leader, as he's pretty spirited and likes to win. Then again though, this is baseball, which is largely an individualist sport. Football is very different, as it is a team oriented sport. You need leaders in football, not necessarily in baseball, unless your the catcher, where you have to lead the pitcher and constantly give him support and all that stuff. Chemistry is over rated, and with good chemistry it only makes it more fun to watch than a team giving each other nasty looks all the time. Your Yankees should be a fun team to watch this year with all their genuine and fun loving personailties.

There's always the debate though with the whole talent vs. winner debate, if you have the winner go to a different team, will he win as much? I tend to think if you put Jeter in Baltimore, they would have a worse record than they did with Tejada. If you think that somehow, he'd make them better than Tejada would, well, your, entitled to your opinion.

[DuffysCliff]

Re: Best Shortstop of Each Division

WOW!!! Way to jump on the one series were the numbers don't add up.
Tejada is the more talented player, but I would still take Jeter--intangibles, postseason, class, and absolutely zero steriods. Tejada is awesome but I do have my doubts about him leading a team.
It's like the Manning and Brady debate. Talent versus a winner. I take the winner all of the time. A famous coach once said, "You play to win the game".

I'll admit, I nitpicked a little when it came to bringing up last season's post season numbers, but still, my point is, he's not always the best player in the postseason.

From what I've seen and read, Tejada is actually a good leader, as he's pretty spirited and likes to win. Then again though, this is baseball, which is largely an individualist sport. Football is very different, as it is a team oriented sport. You need leaders in football, not necessarily in baseball, unless your the catcher, where you have to lead the pitcher and constantly give him support and all that stuff. Chemistry is over rated, and with good chemistry it only makes it more fun to watch than a team giving each other nasty looks all the time. Your Yankees should be a fun team to watch this year with all their genuine and fun loving personailties.

There's always the debate though with the whole talent vs. winner debate, if you have the winner go to a different team, will he win as much? I tend to think if you put Jeter in Baltimore, they would have a worse record than they did with Tejada. If you think that somehow, he'd make them better than Tejada would, well, your, entitled to your opinion.