The 2006 New York Mets...

[jLp_vAkEr0]

Re: The 2006 New York Mets...

time to pull the plug on Floyd yet??

Not on Floyd, yes on Lima.

It's a sure loss with Lima on the mound.

Drop him already.

[Kenage]

Re: The 2006 New York Mets...

No more Lima time please for New York. He is done.

[HealyMonster]

Re: The 2006 New York Mets...

Not on Floyd, yes on Lima.

It's a sure loss with Lima on the mound.

Drop him already.

at this point id rather have matsui up than floyd. its almost a sure out when he is up. we need to send him down and let him build his confidence up a bit or something.

[jLp_vAkEr0]

Re: The 2006 New York Mets...

at this point id rather have matsui up than floyd. its almost a sure out when he is up. we need to send him down and let him build his confidence up a bit or something.

Well, he did hit .259 in this 9 game road trip.

He may be coming around... slooooowwwwwwwwly...

[nyisles16]

Re: The 2006 New York Mets...

very impressive outing today by Wags.. i guess no lead is safe with this guy.. did Looper come back & dress in his uni today?

[Pared]

Re: The 2006 New York Mets...

very impressive outing today by Wags.. i guess no lead is safe with this guy.. did Looper come back & dress in his uni today?

Yeah, WTF was that all about! I don't understand it.... he was lights out the day before... WHY??? Go with him on a four run lead???

I'll never understand it. Just like when Randolph used him early in the season with a 4+run lead...

[fsquid]

Re: The 2006 New York Mets...

Our boys stole one on Friday and the Yanks stole one on Sat. Now we are even.

[Briman123]

Re: The 2006 New York Mets...

[nyyanksfan20]

Re: The 2006 New York Mets...

Yeah, WTF was that all about! I don't understand it.... he was lights out the day before... WHY??? Go with him on a four run lead???

I'll never understand it. Just like when Randolph used him early in the season with a 4+run lead...

Willie just did what almost any manager would do in a big game. Go to their best to seal another game and give the Mets the series win. He wanted to shut the door on the Yanks without any nonsense of using Julio, who the Yanks own, or Bradford, who is inconsistent. It's not like Wagner threw alot the night before anyway.

I don't see how anyone can blame Willie for going to thier best with a 4 run lead. If Willie can't trust his so called best pitcher to get 3 outs before giving up 4 runs against a team that has a lineup of really only 5 guys then there is a problem.

[Pared]

Re: The 2006 New York Mets...

Willie just did what almost any manager would do in a big game. Go to their best to seal another game and give the Mets the series win. He wanted to shut the door on the Yanks without any nonsense of using Julio, who the Yanks own, or Bradford, who is inconsistent. It's not like Wagner threw alot the night before anyway.

I don't see how anyone can blame Willie for going to thier best with a 4 run lead. If Willie can't trust his so called best pitcher to get 3 outs before giving up 4 runs against a team that has a lineup of really only 5 guys then there is a problem.

It has nothing to do with trust. Wagner wouldn't be the closer if there were trust issues. The problem is he uses Wagner a bit TOO much... the guy shut the door the night before in a close game. With a four run lead, you put someone else in there and have Wagner warming up. The other team scores one run, you bring in Wagner.

And unless you've been following the Mets, watching every single game, you don't have any idea what goes on. (Which, being a Yankee fan, I'm sure you do) The point is Wagner has been brought in to the game in some odd situations... like I posted initially, this isn't the first time he has used Wagner in a 4+ run situation.

[Sully]

Re: The 2006 New York Mets...

I agree with Pared. Wagner should have never come in with the 4 run lead. With him pitching the last two games, and throwing a ton of pitches yesterday, it makes you wonder if he's even available today.

BTW, that Kazmir kid is pretty good.

[nyyanksfan20]

Re: The 2006 New York Mets...

Overuse shouldn't be the problem. His last game was last Saturday and then he pitched this Friday game throwing 13 pitches. Willie saw what he did Friday and expected the same to win the series. He didn't want to fool around with guys like Julio and Bradford because he probably still doesn't really trust them. And even if your going to make Wagner warm up, and then possibly bring him into a stickier situation, why not just bring him in with nobody on needing 3 outs?

I've read that Wagner doesn't like being used on back to back days. To me this is a problem part of being a relief pitcher is being ready to pitch everyday especially come big games/playoff time. Maybe this is why in the small amount of playoff games he has seen he has been pretty bad, I don't know. I do know that after 4 days rest and then a 13 pitch day, a pitcher should be able to pitch the next day.

[Pared]

Re: The 2006 New York Mets...

Overuse shouldn't be the problem. His last game was last Saturday and then he pitched this Friday game throwing 13 pitches. Willie saw what he did Friday and expected the same to win the series. He didn't want to fool around with guys like Julio and Bradford because he probably still doesn't really trust them. And even if your going to make Wagner warm up, and then possibly bring him into a stickier situation, why not just bring him in with nobody on needing 3 outs?

I've read that Wagner doesn't like being used on back to back days. To me this is a problem part of being a relief pitcher is being ready to pitch everyday especially come big games/playoff time. Maybe this is why in the small amount of playoff games he has seen he has been pretty bad, I don't know. I do know that after 4 days rest and then a 13 pitch day, a pitcher should be able to pitch the next day.

No, I completely agree that he should be ready to pitch back to back games, especially as a relief pitcher/closer. It's just that we didn't need him... plus, when you use your closer in a situation like this, you really take the chance of hurting his confidence if he has some monumental breakdown (like Wagner did yesterday).

IMO, you have to use your closer in situations where he's going to shut the door BECAUSE he needs to shut the door. With a four run lead... there isn't any urgency; more bad can happen than good.

Plus, what do you do when he has a bad outing? Who do you go to? See?

On a side note, the weather is really crazy right now... pouring rain one second... sunny the next... I hope we get this game in tonight. I want to see some good baseball!

[Rod_Carew29]

Re: The 2006 New York Mets...

Certainly YOU'VE got to be kidding? What do you mean Randolph uses him too much? Prior to this series vs. The Yanks, he hardly pitched at all in the 7 days prior. And for those that act like they don't know, he ADDRESSED this whole 'made up' nonsense about 'why did Wagner pitch the 9th?' immediately after the game. Did you hear him?

It is unbelieveable how Randolph is taking wayyyyyyyyyy too much heat for using Wagner in a +4 run game. Wagenr threw thirteen...13...pitches on Friday night. What's that? Nothing!

You cannot win with some Mets fans. If Randolph would have brought someone else in the start the 9th, or would have kept Sanchez in...no one would have said a word...and rightfully so. H-o-w-e-v-e-r, had one of those options did not work out, some of the SAME so-called Mets fans would have whined and said, "What's he (Randolph) doing? Even though we're up by 4, we gotta put the best in there against the best (Yankees)" Simple....unbelieveable.

It's not the first time that any manager...from Torre to Buddy Bell...has used thier closer in a non-save situation. And it won't be the last time. Had Wagner got the job done, no one...not you, some folks on this board, some of those idiot hosts on the 'FAN, the so-called armchair quarterbacks, second guessers, the legions of idiotic callers...no one...would have said a damn thing.

The one thing I'd like to know is if Stats Inc, or one of the baseball stat organizations can put up the data that shows how ALL closers in the Majors fare in non-save situations. I do think there is something to how their mental approach is when they're put in the game where they cannot pick up a save.

Bottom line...The Mets are up by 4, you put your stopper in to put the nail in the coffin. He's paid to get the job done. Unfortunately, he didnt get it done.

And one more thing, believe your azz had yesterday's game been with the Yanks up by 4 going to the bottom of the 9th, Torre was not gonna f*ck around....you better understand that Rivera would have been in there...ESPECIALLY since the Yanks themselves have NOT been playing lights out baseball.

The Mets are STILL in first place last time I checked...I guess some of the so-called Mets fans want Art Howe back also, huh? Don't laugh, I've heard a few knuckleheads offer up that crazed scenario.

It has nothing to do with trust. Wagner wouldn't be the closer if there were trust issues. The problem is he uses Wagner a bit TOO much... the guy shut the door the night before in a close game. With a four run lead, you put someone else in there and have Wagner warming up. The other team scores one run, you bring in Wagner.

And unless you've been following the Mets, watching every single game, you don't have any idea what goes on. (Which, being a Yankee fan, I'm sure you do) The point is Wagner has been brought in to the game in some odd situations... like I posted initially, this isn't the first time he has used Wagner in a 4+ run situation.

[Rod_Carew29]

This 'Made Up' Randolph/Wagner Issue @ nyyanksfan20

As a long time Mets fan...certainly longer than most on this board (1968), I gotta give you your props. Your assessment is DEAD ON. You know like I do, if the situation was in reverse...and Torre had a fairly rested Rivera in that bullpen, Rivera was coming in that game...end of discussion. Torre wouldn't give a shyt about being up by 4 runs. Furthermore, he does not like interleage play, and he does not want to hear George's mouth if they don't fare well against the Mets.

Kudos for being able to see what really was the situation here....and not piling on this phoney-azz bandwagon.

Overuse shouldn't be the problem. His last game was last Saturday and then he pitched this Friday game throwing 13 pitches. Willie saw what he did Friday and expected the same to win the series. He didn't want to fool around with guys like Julio and Bradford because he probably still doesn't really trust them. And even if your going to make Wagner warm up, and then possibly bring him into a stickier situation, why not just bring him in with nobody on needing 3 outs?

I've read that Wagner doesn't like being used on back to back days. To me this is a problem part of being a relief pitcher is being ready to pitch everyday especially come big games/playoff time. Maybe this is why in the small amount of playoff games he has seen he has been pretty bad, I don't know. I do know that after 4 days rest and then a 13 pitch day, a pitcher should be able to pitch the next day.