Next Gen gameplay shows same issues from CG

**Kaanyr Vhok** · 11-11-2013, 11:52 PM

Re: Next Gen gameplay shows same issues from CG

Originally posted by JasonWilliams55

Rebounding ratings being lopsided in favor of Orebs is the issue. Offline fixable, online is gonna have some issues, I see STATS isn't what I thought it was gonna bring. Maybe NG is getting the red carpet treatment and STATS is awaiting NG? I dunno fingercrossed.

Its bigger than STATS. STATS at best will just give us ratings that are based on permin numbers which beats what we use to have but it wouldnt heal the rebounding woes without changing how the rating works. Nobody should have a rating that causes them to play so listlessly but if you raise them too high athletic seven footers will grab everything and we wont have realistic offensive rebound numbers. So the designers need to find a medium where everyone makes a decent effort yet guards can still get their numbers and user controlled teams wont be dead last in offensive boards in their franchise.

**westfl87** · 11-12-2013, 12:17 AM

Re: Next Gen gameplay shows same issues from CG

1. It's a video game

2. They know already

3. You have a good point with the rebounding, but otherwise everthing else can be fixed by user play..

Lastly, don't expect a good representation by ppl who aren't good, n don't expect better tomorrow cause Ronnie nem ain't really that good either when it comes to showing a close resemblance to real basketball play..

**Ricky Rozay** · 11-12-2013, 12:26 AM

Re: Next Gen gameplay shows same issues from CG

One thing that bothers me is the lagging animations, example at 1:27 with the Nets players as KG was running back to midcourt, seen that in all the videos, lagging/twitching

**bigeastbumrush** · 11-12-2013, 09:50 AM

Re: Next Gen gameplay shows same issues from CG

Originally posted by Kaanyr Vhok

Rebounding was always broken. Bigs grabbed too many, the ratings were baseless, they called way too many basket interferences/goal tends, verticals were uniform and there were a lack of long, intentionally and accidentally tipped out rebounds. Its easy to see what went wrong. You can see it in both Lopez brothers. Brook has a 63 in defensive rebounding, Robin has a 43. The ratings arent baseless they are poor per minn defensive rebounders however they both do a good enough job of keeping other 5s off the offensive glass and advance rebounding stats reflect that. Also both have terrible verts and stamina which is why I think they get lazy.

Its largely a ratings issue though the game still lacks rebounding dynamics ie box out specialist like the Lopez brothers, longer, deflected and intentionally tipped rebounds.

I dont see what was so off about the Bosh lob. He could see James going to the hoop before he spun. The problem is everything else before the lob namely the horrible offball man/ball relation defense. It seems like Im the only one who things the interior pass defense while better than the 2k8-2k10 lead pass days is still the weakest most defunct part of the AI.

Sorry but 2K was always known for both offensive and defensive players fighting for rebounds and rebounding battles. It wasn't an issue until about 2K11.

You may be right about ratings. But it was obvious from the footage that guys were automatically boxing out space. That was clearly evident.

2K changed something because before you could tip rebounds. Not saying you can't do it now but I think it is probably too contextual when it comes to rebounding the ball. They need to free those animations up.

Brook Lopez is just standing there while Tyson goes up for rebounds. Why? I mean Brook is not a good rebounder but he's also not ******** (no offense to anyone). Why is he not fighting for the boards? Or when he's doing it he's either late or out of place/position? I would really like an answer for this because I don't think it's a ratings issue.

**SPRINGS03** · 11-12-2013, 09:51 AM

Re: Next Gen gameplay shows same issues from CG

Originally posted by Boilerbuzz

(Not surprised SPRINGS03 piles on...)

You both are full of it. Here is a fact you can't argue: it IS a video game! It is NOT perfect. It will NEVER be perfect. It's the people that realize this that don't throw a temper tantrum over every sign that it is not perfect. It's NOT complacency. You're talking about some of the same people that have their own gripes and have voiced them plenty. So to imply they are just blowing things off is wrong. Like I said, the OP was great to point out these issues. Of course, the parrots had to start chirping and taking it to another level. On the other side, folks need to remember that calling attention to and acknowledging the flaws of the games makes them better games. There IS a middle ground. Find it.

And not surprised, you whine about my opinion. If you have a bone to pick with me or my opinion feel free to PM me. Otherwise, calm down and stop acting butthurt over things i say.

I only mentioned complacency when people say "it's just a video game" in response to any complaint mentioned, it's a copout and a terrible argument. I mean using that logic, since it's "just a video game" why should graphics matter that much? It's not real life? Why should they pay attention to details and make players look like their real life counter parts? That argument doesn't work, you can't pick and choose issues that you feel aren't important and just say because it's a video game it doesn't matter.

This whole argument doesn't work. For one, who said it has to be perfect? Who said it wasn't a video game?(seriously, show me where anyone said that, i'm curious) Instead of strawmanning arguments you don't like, and making up imaginary people/arguments to respond to, why not address what was actually said? You should try re reading what i said, seems you missed the point, by a mile i might add. Just so you could go on some kind of tangent about opinions you don't like.

**Mr_Riddick** · 11-12-2013, 09:57 AM

Re: Next Gen gameplay shows same issues from CG

I understand the OP arguments, but lets wait and see what we have today @4.

**spankdatazz22** · 11-12-2013, 10:14 AM

Re: Next Gen gameplay shows same issues from CG

Originally posted by Optik

No offense, but the "it's a video game" argument has got to be one of the most annoyingly stupid ones thrown out at video games.

I'd disagree somewhat; I think it depends on the context. More often than not NBA2K14 isn't compared to another videogame, it's compared to real life. Or what someone's perspective of what would occur in real life. When comparison video is posted, it's usually of something that occurs in real life - and the game is always going to pale in comparison. I think that's where some perspective is needed and the fact that this is a videogame needs to be taken into context. While I don't disagree entirely with the guy that made the videos, in one he seems to be faulting a play for having too much momentum and in the other he's faulting a play for having too little momentum. And then says [paraphrasing] "This is next gen/these things issues shouldn't be in the game".

Are they issues? Yes and no, depends on perspective. I personally don't see them as being HUGE issues. Is it a huge issue that we see a few plays where guys aren't fighting for offensive rebounds? Again, I'm not sure I'd characterize the issue as huge, when there are sliders that do work and can be tweaked to an individual's satisfaction. I do more agree with the passing issues than not. Either way I think at some point there needs to be perspective that it is only a videogame if all the game is only being compared to real life. That's not to say it shouldn't continue to improve, just saying it'd be nice to see some perspective used when discussing issues.

**Optik** · 11-12-2013, 12:53 PM

Re: Next Gen gameplay shows same issues from CG

Originally posted by Boilerbuzz

You both are full of it. Here is a fact you can't argue: it IS a video game! It is NOT perfect. It will NEVER be perfect. It's the people that realize this that don't throw a temper tantrum over every sign that it is not perfect. It's NOT complacency. You're talking about some of the same people that have their own gripes and have voiced them plenty. So to imply they are just blowing things off is wrong. Like I said, the OP was great to point out these issues. Of course, the parrots had to start chirping and taking it to another level. On the other side, folks need to remember that calling attention to and acknowledging the flaws of the games makes them better games. There IS a middle ground. Find it.

Don't you dare accuse me of being full of it and then throw the strawmans that I've already exposed in my face. You're being completely disingenuous by claiming that the people who are critiquing the gameplay are throwing temper tantrums. I'm not complaining that the uniform is the wrong colour or so and so player doesn't have this or that accessory. That means NOTHING to me. I am not accusing the devs of being lazy so don't misquote me and don't mischaracterise me.

You should read the thread again if you think there were "parrots chirping and taking it to another level". I was replying to wallofhate's post which bemoaned the OP going through the game with a "fine tooth-comb" and that it's "just a video game", a sentiment that you agree with. Then you want to claim false moderation and rush to the centre by claiming that "critiquing the game" makes it better.

So what exactly is your point? Who were the people taking it to "another level". Was it basehead slamming critics as "mouthbreathers". No, it was SPRINGS03 for agreeing with me. Your post reeks of hypocrisy. You're the one who's shown himself to be full of it.

**Kaanyr Vhok** · 11-12-2013, 01:47 PM

Re: Next Gen gameplay shows same issues from CG

Originally posted by bigeastbumrush

Sorry but 2K was always known for both offensive and defensive players fighting for rebounds and rebounding battles. It wasn't an issue until about 2K11.

You may be right about ratings. But it was obvious from the footage that guys were automatically boxing out space. That was clearly evident.

2K changed something because before you could tip rebounds. Not saying you can't do it now but I think it is probably too contextual when it comes to rebounding the ball. They need to free those animations up.

Brook Lopez is just standing there while Tyson goes up for rebounds. Why? I mean Brook is not a good rebounder but he's also not ******** (no offense to anyone). Why is he not fighting for the boards? Or when he's doing it he's either late or out of place/position? I would really like an answer for this because I don't think it's a ratings issue.

Ratings have something to do with it. I know if he had an 83 instead of a 63 he probably grabs that rebound or at least makes a true attempt. I think they also reduced the aggression to make room for the tenacious rebounder sig skill. So maybe what was a 63 is really less than that for bigs at least.

My point about the rebounding was that its always had issues outside of the aggression. It wasn’t as visibly broken as it is now but the actual results were less realistic.
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**rhawnflamez** · 11-12-2013, 02:18 PM

Re: Next Gen gameplay shows same issues from CG

Originally posted by SPRINGS03

And not surprised, you whine about my opinion. If you have a bone to pick with me or my opinion feel free to PM me. Otherwise, calm down and stop acting butthurt over things i say.

I only mentioned complacency when people say "it's just a video game" in response to any complaint mentioned, it's a copout and a terrible argument. I mean using that logic, since it's "just a video game" why should graphics matter that much? It's not real life? Why should they pay attention to details and make players look like their real life counter parts? That argument doesn't work, you can't pick and choose issues that you feel aren't important and just say because it's a video game it doesn't matter.

This whole argument doesn't work. For one, who said it has to be perfect? Who said it wasn't a video game?(seriously, show me where anyone said that, i'm curious) Instead of strawmanning arguments you don't like, and making up imaginary people/arguments to respond to, why not address what was actually said? You should try re reading what i said, seems you missed the point, by a mile i might add. Just so you could go on some kind of tangent about opinions you don't like.

Thank You. Enough said. This is merely showing the points of what's suppose to be a "Next Gen Game". For 2k users/players, having seen the same issues over and over to see these issues come to what's suppose to be new and revolutionary, mean changes, a complete overhaul. For those who say, "its just a video game" then why take it to next gen. Graphics shouldn't matter, smh. The problem is that 2k paid a lot of attention to graphics and none to the glaring issues of the gameplay. Play 2k14 current gen and watch how the AI will kill you on the offensive board for rough 75 percent of their points. Not that I lose but game after game no matter who I play, this is how the AI plays me. This is something that should be addressed.

To the video where the defense player warped out of bounds to the entry pass to Boozer, it's due to the fact that def player is still unable to react correctly to loose balls and its just at advantage to the offensive player.

**TheRealHST** · 11-12-2013, 02:24 PM

Re: Next Gen gameplay shows same issues from CG

Originally posted by wallofhate

No disrespect.but it is a video game. It's gotta be a margin of acceptance of little things like this happening regardless if it's 2k, Madden our even grand theft or battlefield. As long as it's not a constant occurrence I think we can live with it. I understand when graphics get ramped up ppl watch and critique with a fine comb but I find it counterproductive. It makes most of us that would never notice these minuscule little imperfections start looking for problems instead of enjoying how great these games are. Just my opinion

No disrespect but its a video game website. .

**jersez** · 11-12-2013, 04:01 PM

Re: Next Gen gameplay shows same issues from CG

Originally posted by westfl87

1. It's a video game

2. They know already

3. You have a good point with the rebounding, but otherwise everthing else can be fixed by user play..

Lastly, don't expect a good representation by ppl who aren't good, n don't expect better tomorrow cause Ronnie nem ain't really that good either when it comes to showing a close resemblance to real basketball play..

hasheem thabeet wasn't user error, chris bosh spin oop, the left handed pass wasn't user error, and that knicks vs Brooklyn nets game was a CPU vs CPU game lol. You say they know already like it makes it acceptable, I'm not here to bash the game, I'm here pushing for improvement. Being a fanboy doesn't help devs, and being a ***** doesn't help devs, I am neither. All I did was show evidence of issues, but you guys are killing me and I didn't even make the game. The visual feedback helps devs ask Czar, matter of fact Czar shows issues in gameplay but he doesn't get the same negativity.

**Vni** · 11-12-2013, 04:26 PM

Re: Next Gen gameplay shows same issues from CG

Originally posted by wallofhate

No disrespect.but it is a video game.

I'am just glad game developpers don't come on the forums with that kind of excuses to their game's issues.

What's viewed as nitpicking at one point becomes a standard about time.

This at one point where considered awesome graphics:

I bet some people on theses boards where noticing the jersey morphing through the shorts and the lack of facial accuracy even though it was probably great for it's time.

Nitpicking is just trying to go forward and pushing a product to its limit.

Jersez hasn't come in here overracting about theses issues. He just took some of his time to make a video where he points out what he notices. Good or bad.

**JDrew8** · 11-12-2013, 04:53 PM

Re: Next Gen gameplay shows same issues from CG

This was a good breakdown. He nailed it when he mentioned the unrealistic passing animations, lack of ball awarenes, and the lack of physicality. And to all the people whining about how "It's just a video game", what are you trying to prove? These issues that they have had can finally be diminished soon now that they have a new engine and next gen for more room for improvement

**quehouston** · 11-12-2013, 05:31 PM

Re: Next Gen gameplay shows same issues from CG

Nothing to add. Great breakdown homie.

And to the "Its just a video game" comments, there's our line between casual and hardcore 2k players. Why would hardcore players wanna put up with the same issues that plagued us for years? There is absolutely no way this game was built from the ground up if the exact same issues are there.

Next Gen gameplay shows same issues from CG

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