Defensive Settings Completely Removed from Next-Gen.

[the_future420]

Re: Defensive Settings Completely Removed from Next-Gen.

On the loading screen settings...you can tap r1 and access the pick and individual settings for the starters

Prepatch right ?

Wait, so these settings were IN and 2k removed them? What the hell?

[BezO]

Re: Defensive Settings Completely Removed from Next-Gen.

Damn!!!

Considering going next gen sooner than later. This exclusion moves the scale one notch towards later.

Since it was patched out, maybe it will be patched back in. Either there was something wrong - clashing with the POE, and they're fixing it, or POE was meant to replace it & it's gone.

I'm guessing it clashed heavily with POE. The defensive settings clash a bit with some of the quick defensive strategies on current gen too. POE does have more options though.

Damn!!!

[blues rocker]

Re: Defensive Settings Completely Removed from Next-Gen.

wow, i'm shocked that they removed this. they'd better put it back in 2k15. talk about removing a sim feature.

it strikes me as a move to make the game more "casual-friendly" by trying to streamline the settings into something simpler. it's fine to include that, but don't completely remove the more detailed version...some of us like detail.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Defensive Settings Completely Removed from Next-Gen.

I will say that this years 2k is the most fun that i have had on the defensive end. I think this comes from the fact that defenses really act like real defenses in this game. There is proper help and rotations, and you can effectively shade and funnel ball handlers towards your help. Also, the controls feel really responsive. Charges, hands up and hands in passing lanes all work how they should and make it feel like you have a counter to most of what the offense is doing.

Let me ask this as I do not have the game and only have watched the videos posted online. But what I have seen defensively with rotations and help side is that once a pass is made its like the 4 other players move in unison and like a synchronized swimming team going to a certain area on the floor for help. It doesn't look realistic to me. As a coach and in a perfect world I would love my kids to rotate like this IRL and act as if they were on a string with the ball but is it really realistic? This is just a question.

I guess regardless its a step in the right direction as far as having proper help. But do POE when used in a certain category like guarding outside shooters (not sure what POE are called in this game as I don't have it) mean that instead of rotating to the same spot in help they stay closer to that shooter or do they still rotate to that specific help side stop line spot?

My thought is that if the defensive adjustments were still in per player we wouldn't have the synchronized swimmer feeling as maybe 2 guys sag off in proper help while the other 1 is denying pass back and 1 is staying close to home on a shooter. I would think these would be the type of things we lose with just having POE and losing individual defensive strategies? No? Not to mention it would be more aesthetically pleasing to the eye:-)

[the_future420]

Re: Defensive Settings Completely Removed from Next-Gen.

Let me ask this as I do not have the game and only have watched the videos posted online. But what I have seen defensively with rotations and help side is that once a pass is made its like the 4 other players move in unison and like a synchronized swimming team going to a certain area on the floor for help. It doesn't look realistic to me. As a coach and in a perfect world I would love my kids to rotate like this IRL and act as if they were on a string with the ball but is it really realistic? This is just a question.

I guess regardless its a step in the right direction as far as having proper help. But do POE when used in a certain category like guarding outside shooters (not sure what POE are called in this game as I don't have it) mean that instead of rotating to the same spot in help they stay closer to that shooter or do they still rotate to that specify help side stop line spot?

My thought is that if the defensive adjustments were still in per player we wouldn't have the synchronized swimmer feeling as maybe 2 guys sag off in proper help while the other 1 is denying pass back and 1 is staying close to home on a shooter. I would think these would be the type of things we lose with just having POE and losing individual defensive strategies? No? Not to mention it would be more aesthetically pleasing to the eye:-)

I will have to look more in-depth at this tonight when I play. Hopefully I can get my streaming working so that I can save some of my gameplay videos and reference them at later dates. I can say that while playing the game, on both sides of the ball, the help defense certainly feels realistic. I dont think that it is always on a string as you say, but it certainly could be. I haven't felt like the CPU cheesed me in terms of magic rotations, but instead, the help D seems to come from the place you would expect it to at the time you expect it. I doubt that there is full proper "eyes on ball" rotation and reaction times, but it certainly feels like there is a solid foundation on the defensive side of things.

[JasonWilliams55]

Re: Defensive Settings Completely Removed from Next-Gen.

PoE = Defensive Assignments + Coaching Profile changes.

Yes having the manual def. assigns. and coach pros. gone for whatever reason is a bummer as I always did mine before the game and changed them throughout.

The thing that sucks is that we cannot see how PoE adjusts these settings, atleast in 13, if you selected "lockdown paint" you could go into def. assigns. and see what 2K did to get "lockdown paint", those presets were exactly that, presets (of manual adjustments).

With that said, I am all for the PoEs as it will get more people to use the strategies, and to be honest, most people didnt know how to use the def. assigns. + coach profiles in a proper way. Most peeps would just max out (x, y and z) + tight/deny on everyone, and what happened? peeps would just complain, now that 2k has taken a step to stop that, peeps complain.

Yes it should still be in, as more options are always better, but my goodness why not try PoE out as intended?

I have had no problems with it and its made playing the game that much "easier" as in I don't have to spend 10 minutes pre game waiting for 2 players to do all the adjustments.

Still, more options are always better, I should be able to manually do the adjustments and/or use the PoE system.

Also there is no way that Def. Assigns clashed with PoE, as they are the same thing, in 13 there was no clashing w/ manual and presets, because as soon as you went from manual def. assigns and switched to a preset your "custom" adjustments were put aside for the preset adjustments. Fail to see how it clashed as it was either or, not both at the same time.

What 2k did with PoE is give everyone a multitude of presets to choose from. (we should know what they do and how they are different from each other, we should also have the ability to set 3 custom PoEs again which are no more than def. assign presets + coach profile changes).

/end rambling/

All in all, options are always better.


-------------------------

Lets look at the PoEs (taken from Gosens thread)

PoE - my thoughts

Defense

Conservative Defense - Probably Moderate on most players.
Play Physical - Could see Tight/Tight, with Def Press on/off setup w/ a high number.
Nothing Inside - lockdown paint
Limit Transition - dont crash offense glass, get back
Limit Perimeter Shots - tight on shooters
Key On Player - obvious
Crash Defensive Glass - obvious
Create Chaos - who knows, probably double everything, tight on/off or maybe deny

Offense

Patient Offense - moderate off tempo setting
Shoot At Will - spread and iso
Get Shooters Open - screens for shooters
Play Through - obvious
Get To The Basket - spread and drive the lane
Pick And Roll Offense - run PnR offense
Feed The Post - call more post plays
Crash Offensive Glass - obvious (high crash glass coach profile setting)
Run In Transition - obvious (high FB and high tempo)

Point is, that to me it seems as if 2K wanted to give proper settings (coach pros + def assigns) that actually work.

Now I would still like to see a DEV comment on what exactly the PoEs do and how so that we can take the guessing game out of what we are trying to do w/ PoEs in the game.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Defensive Settings Completely Removed from Next-Gen.

I will have to look more in-depth at this tonight when I play. Hopefully I can get my streaming working so that I can save some of my gameplay videos and reference them at later dates. I can say that while playing the game, on both sides of the ball, the help defense certainly feels realistic. I dont think that it is always on a string as you say, but it certainly could be. I haven't felt like the CPU cheesed me in terms of magic rotations, but instead, the help D seems to come from the place you would expect it to at the time you expect it. I doubt that there is full proper "eyes on ball" rotation and reaction times, but it certainly feels like there is a solid foundation on the defensive side of things.

Sometimes the feel is more important. Again, I was just going off of videos I had watched. I was just curious if POE changed all players at the same time to defend against a certain player or stop an area or if the CPU AI was smart about how the POE was used and on who they used it against?

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Defensive Settings Completely Removed from Next-Gen.

PoE = Defensive Assignments + Coaching Profile changes.

Yes having the manual def. assigns. and coach pros. gone for whatever reason is a bummer as I always did mine before the game and changed them throughout.

The thing that sucks is that we cannot see how PoE adjusts these settings, atleast in 13, if you selected "lockdown paint" you could go into def. assigns. and see what 2K did to get "lockdown paint", those presets were exactly that, presets (of manual adjustments).

With that said, I am all for the PoEs as it will get more people to use the strategies, and to be honest, most people didnt know how to use the def. assigns. + coach profiles in a proper way. Most peeps would just max out (x, y and z) + tight/deny on everyone, and what happened? peeps would just complain, now that 2k has taken a step to stop that, peeps complain.

Yes it should still be in, as more options are always better, but my goodness why not try PoE out as intended?

I have had no problems with it and its made playing the game that much "easier" as in I don't have to spend 10 minutes pre game waiting for 2 players to do all the adjustments.

Still, more options are always better, I should be able to manually do the adjustments and/or use the PoE system.

Also there is no way that Def. Assigns clashed with PoE, as they are the same thing, in 13 there was no clashing w/ manual and presets, because as soon as you went from manual def. assigns and switched to a preset your "custom" adjustments were put aside for the preset adjustments. Fail to see how it clashed as it was either or, not both at the same time.

What 2k did with PoE is give everyone a multitude of presets to choose from. (we should know what they do and how they are different from each other, we should also have the ability to set 3 custom PoEs again which are no more than def. assign presets + coach profile changes).

/end rambling/

All in all, options are always better.


-------------------------

Lets look at the PoEs (taken from Gosens thread)

PoE - my thoughts

Defense

Conservative Defense - Probably Moderate on most players.
Play Physical - Could see Tight/Tight, with Def Press on/off setup w/ a high number.
Nothing Inside - lockdown paint
Limit Transition - dont crash offense glass, get back
Limit Perimeter Shots - tight on shooters
Key On Player - obvious
Crash Defensive Glass - obvious
Create Chaos - who knows, probably double everything, tight on/off or maybe deny

Offense

Patient Offense - moderate off tempo setting
Shoot At Will - spread and iso
Get Shooters Open - screens for shooters
Play Through - obvious
Get To The Basket - spread and drive the lane
Pick And Roll Offense - run PnR offense
Feed The Post - call more post plays
Crash Offensive Glass - obvious (high crash glass coach profile setting)
Run In Transition - obvious (high FB and high tempo)

Point is, that to me it seems as if 2K wanted to give proper settings (coach pros + def assigns) that actually work.

Now I would still like to see a DEV comment on what exactly the PoEs do and how so that we can take the guessing game out of what we are trying to do w/ PoEs in the game.

Good post! I think POE is great for casuals and those that don't want to put in the time to make these adjustments individually. I even like that on the fly I could make these changes before or instead of using a timeout and in the flow of the game. I do think they should still have it in the game though for individual adjustments. It seems the POE has left out a key defensive adjustment? For example where is the PNR hedging and going over or under in the new POE? So this part of the game is completely gone? I used that more than any other adjustment as PNR is 75% of NBA games.

[erickonasis]

Re: Defensive Settings Completely Removed from Next-Gen.

While you can key on particular players or limit the type of shots a team gets, you cannot scheme for, say the Timberwolves who have a mix of guys with a variety of strengths and weaknesses you want to take away or exploit by:

On ball:

Sagging off on Rubio (who can't shoot)
Normal/tight on Love (who you don't want to leave open outside)
Playing tight on Martin (who is their primary outside threat)
Sagging off Pekovic (who isn't an outside threat)
Playing normal on Brewer (who is a bit of an all-around scorer)

Nor can you scheme for them off ball:

Sagging off on Rubio
Deny on Love (who you may not want to leave)
Playing tight on Martin
Sagging off Pekovic
Playing normal on Brewer (who you don't want to play tight off-ball because he loves to backdoor)

Nor can you gameplan your pick and roll defense:

Go Under and Soft hedge on Rubio (to deny him dribble penetration with no threat of midrage shot).

Go Over and Hard hedge on Martin (to deny him outside looks).

This never seemed to work for me in the first place at least in offline games thats why i never bothered to use it

i would spend all that time adjusting and my players never actually did that properly

[JasonWilliams55]

Re: Defensive Settings Completely Removed from Next-Gen.

Good post! I think POE is great for casuals and those that don't want to put in the time to make these adjustments individually. I even like that on the fly I could make these changes before or instead of using a timeout and in the flow of the game. I do think they should still have it in the game though for individual adjustments. It seems the POE has left out a key defensive adjustment? For example where is the PNR hedging and going over or under in the new POE? So this part of the game is completely gone? I used that more than any other adjustment as PNR is 75% of NBA games.

yes, manually setting how to deal with PnRs is gone. I would assume that it would depend on what PoE you have chosen, obv. deny inside would be go under, etc etc

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Defensive Settings Completely Removed from Next-Gen.

yes, manually setting how to deal with PnRs is gone. I would assume that it would depend on what PoE you have chosen, obv. deny inside would be go under, etc etc

Is it obvious though? Can you test it and see if that is true. So what if you want to go under a screen because lets say rondo can't shoot from outside but he has 3 point shooters all over the floor and they are playing small ball with no inside presence (hypothetically speaking). You are saying I can't play to both of those scenarios at the same time with POE. Id have to pick lock inside to contain rondo but at the same time I'd have to live with giving up the 3 ball to do so. The same would go on the other end of the spectrum.

This is where we miss this option of ALSO being able to adjust manually if we so please to do so.

[JasonWilliams55]

Re: Defensive Settings Completely Removed from Next-Gen.

Is it obvious though? Can you test it and see if that is true. So what if you want to go under a screen because lets say rondo can't shoot from outside but he has 3 point shooters all over the floor and they are playing small ball with no inside presence (hypothetically speaking). You are saying I can't play to both of those scenarios at the same time with POE. Id have to pick lock inside to contain rondo but at the same time I'd have to live with giving up the 3 ball to do so. The same would go on the other end of the spectrum.

This is where we miss this option of ALSO being able to adjust manually if we so please to do so.

The AI so far for me has done quite well in determining who is a shooter and who is not.

But yes you could do both.

In the Rondo + 3pt shooter scenario, I would have chose "nothing inside" and then for my flex PoE (there is 1 offensive, 1 defensive and 1 flex choice) I would go with "limit perimeter shots" or maybe make the defensive one "perimeter" and the flex "inside".

So you can have 2 defensive PoEs or 2 offensive ones at the same time.

[2_headedmonster]

Re: Defensive Settings Completely Removed from Next-Gen.

Is it obvious though? Can you test it and see if that is true. So what if you want to go under a screen because lets say rondo can't shoot from outside but he has 3 point shooters all over the floor and they are playing small ball with no inside presence (hypothetically speaking). You are saying I can't play to both of those scenarios at the same time with POE. Id have to pick lock inside to contain rondo but at the same time I'd have to live with giving up the 3 ball to do so. The same would go on the other end of the spectrum.

This is where we miss this option of ALSO being able to adjust manually if we so please to do so.

That seems to be the case.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: Defensive Settings Completely Removed from Next-Gen.

The AI so far for me has done quite well in determining who is a shooter and who is not.

But yes you could do both.

In the Rondo + 3pt shooter scenario, I would have chose "nothing inside" and then for my flex PoE (there is 1 offensive, 1 defensive and 1 flex choice) I would go with "limit perimeter shots" or maybe make the defensive one "perimeter" and the flex "inside".

So you can have 2 defensive PoEs or 2 offensive ones at the same time.

Interesting… Tell me about this flex choice? So you can call 2 POE at a time which would somewhat be the equivalent of my scenario above? BTW I'm watching your live stream now…

Edit: if anyone wants to watch his live stream its right her…

http://www.twitch.tv/jw55_nba2k

[Rockie_Fresh88]

Re: Defensive Settings Completely Removed from Next-Gen.

@JasonWilliams you are a lot better at explaining POE than me lol.