How Should 2k Respond to Community Disappointment over Features Cuts?

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: How Should 2k Respond to Community Disappointment over Features Cuts?

So the better route is to say nothing? They dodged nearly all questions about the next gen game. The automatic response was to "be patient" or "we'll go more in depth closer to release". I think all people are asking for is some sort of feedback or some general idea of why decisions were made.

To the OP's original topic in the last 2 days you have seen 2 developers and LD2k respond in some threads here explaining a few things as well as taking some feedback. I think thats a positive step in responding to some (including myself) of the "community disappointment". I know we would all like to know what the future holds and their plans moving forward, but they obviously can't speak on that. I for 1 am happy to see some of the developers chiming in and answering some concerns or questions we had as well as stating that they are listening to all the ideas and taking notes for next years games. This only means they are listening to both the good and the bad reviews from the community. That is a HUGE positive and step in my eyes moving forward.

[NBASLAM2001]

Re: How Should 2k Respond to Community Disappointment over Features Cuts?

I can't speak of our direction, it's not my place to do so. I'm really, really, REALLY excited about the future of NBA 2K though, and I'm happy the hardest part is over. It's not easy building a new foundation and delivering a great game in a yearly cycle, especially while also making sure your current-gen product provides a great experience. And with that out of the way, every design meeting we have puts a huge smile on my face. I wish I could tell you more guys. I really wish I could.

Why did you all take away the option to eliminate CPU trading in season/MyGM?

[Cardot]

Re: How Should 2k Respond to Community Disappointment over Features Cuts?

But to go back to the example of online associations, not many posts are talking about the online associations.

Then you should ask. There are alot of hard core dudes on this site that are more than happy to give you very detailed insight on pretty much every facet of the game.

So if people are actually playing games it can take months just for some of these problems to present themselves.

There are multiple threads including this one that have detailed these issues, and the game has barely been out a week. For some guys here, it is standard operation procedure to immediatley sim out a few seasons to see what lies ahead.

Don't get me wrong, it sucks to not have features that were on the last gen. And I personally hate the trend of gaming moving to an online requirement, and despise even more the world of micro transactions. Those are legit gripes. But with all the easy and free resources we have today (Like OS), all this "2K deceived us" business is kind of silly.

[LorenzoDC]

Re: How Should 2k Respond to Community Disappointment over Features Cuts?

Then you should ask. There are alot of hard core dudes on this site that are more than happy to give you very detailed insight on pretty much every facet of the game.



There are multiple threads including this one that have detailed these issues, and the game has barely been out a week. For some guys here, it is standard operation procedure to immediatley sim out a few seasons to see what lies ahead.

Don't get me wrong, it sucks to not have features that were on the last gen. And I personally hate the trend of gaming moving to an online requirement, and despise even more the world of micro transactions. Those are legit gripes. But with all the easy and free resources we have today (Like OS), all this "2K deceived us" business is kind of silly.

It sounds like you're saying that posters around here know all the information in advance about a game before it releases. But that's patently not true.

People pay attention to the public statements and read the tea leaves on e3 video footage, etc., precisely because there's no clear public information, and what there is, is incomplete.

I don't understand your argument, which seems to be, hey, if you're surprised, it's your own fault, because you didn't pay close enough attention to all the readily available information here on this site prior to launch.

[VDusen04]

Re: How Should 2k Respond to Community Disappointment over Features Cuts?

Here's the thing though, you're questioning their direction based off your personal likes and dislikes. Jay-Z is a huge star, his involvement with the game is a huge deal whether people around here want to admit it or not. That's not some warning sign that 2K is going down the drain because Jay-Z was involved with the project. Especially since majority of people around here don't even give him credit for the one believable thing they credit him with.

Yes, that's exactly right. I'm absolutely questioning their direction based off of my personal likes and dislikes. When I made the transition from NBA Live 2002 to NBA 2K2, it was because 2K's direction seemed plainly clear to be in sync with what I was looking for out of an NBA basketball game. 2K made no qualms about it, they were out to make the most realistic NBA simulation of all-time and because that's exactly what I was looking for, it was a match made in heaven.

In part, what this thread is touching on is the recent lack of clarity from 2K. A lot of us can no longer make sense of their overarching mission statement. Is it to make the most realistic NBA simulation ever, both on and off the court? Is it to give what active social media consumers vote for the most? Is it to sell as much product as possible by any means possible?

I'm curious to know whether this direction change shall continue into the future, building off of NBA 2K13 and NBA 2K14, or if we can ever expect a return to a lot of the more realistic and controllable aspects I most value. I am a consumer who is questioning whether a product I've loyally followed over the past 12 years is slowly moving away from my personal preferences. In lieu of explanations (though I appreciate Leftos saying what he's allowed to say), I have a lot of questions.

As for VC, I can't stand it either, but at some point people are going to have to stop crying about VC when that kind of thing is in virtually every other video game in some kind of way. Pre-Order bonuses, DLC, microtransactions, it's the norm in video games so trying to hold 2K to some standard of sneaky evil and shunning the sim community because of those inclusions is unwarranted as well. This really seems to boil down to a lot of us in the sim community being selfish about 2K and not wanting casual gamers to have anything to do with the series unless they're doing everything exactly how we want it done.

I believe this may be a little bit aside from the original thread topic, but I do not think all microtransactions were created equal. There's a difference between GTA V offering me a blimp for pre-ordering their game and NBA 2K carpet bombing their entire product with virtual currency.

[LorenzoDC]

Re: How Should 2k Respond to Community Disappointment over Features Cuts?

To the OP's original topic in the last 2 days you have seen 2 developers and LD2k respond in some threads here explaining a few things as well as taking some feedback. I think thats a positive step in responding to some (including myself) of the "community disappointment". I know we would all like to know what the future holds and their plans moving forward, but they obviously can't speak on that. I for 1 am happy to see some of the developers chiming in and answering some concerns or questions we had as well as stating that they are listening to all the ideas and taking notes for next years games. This only means they are listening to both the good and the bad reviews from the community. That is a HUGE positive and step in my eyes moving forward.

I pretty much agree with this, and hope this thread had some small part in encouraging the 2k posters here to chime in the way they did. Those are all steps in the right direction, and it's clear to me at least their comments and presence have calmed things down a little. That's what I was hoping.

That said, I hope there will be some more planned communication from 2k to answer some questions about what challenges they faced with this new engine and NG game, what they wanted to include but maybe couldn't this year for whatever reason, what their goals may as as it relates to the sim/customization crew for modes, what role VC is intended to play in the modes, etc.

I'm hoping that part of all this could be an announcement of some server cloud side tuning of player roles and trade logic in MyGM for a patch this year to calm the mode down a bit, even if they are not writing new code to change CPU logic. And maybe the ability to give online players more control of leagues and settings. Or maybe tweaking the VC price tags on some things to make, say, accessories and their customization more accessible. In other words, maybe identify some low hanging fruit fixes to this years; NG game that might partially address some of the issues/questions coming up.

The ad hoc participation of the 2k guys here is a great thing. To me, it buys 2k some time to maybe put together a more comprehensive set of responses and communications on the other questions out there. Not because they have to, but because it's good business and good corporate PR, and good to pay attention to your most loyal, passionate and engaged customer base.

[BluFu]

Re: How Should 2k Respond to Community Disappointment over Features Cuts?

As for VC, I can't stand it either, but at some point people are going to have to stop crying about VC when that kind of thing is in virtually every other video game in some kind of way. Pre-Order bonuses, DLC, microtransactions, it's the norm in video games so trying to hold 2K to some standard of sneaky evil and shunning the sim community because of those inclusions is unwarranted as well.

no, those are things that are not in the base game that the company charges for an additional price. the major problem with VC is that it was littered (or "carpet bombed" as VDusen kindly said) on things that we already had access to free from the start in previous games.(ie. tats and accessories in mycareer, star players in blacktop)

[Cardot]

Re: How Should 2k Respond to Community Disappointment over Features Cuts?

It sounds like you're saying that posters around here know all the information in advance about a game before it releases. But that's patently not true.

People pay attention to the public statements and read the tea leaves on e3 video footage, etc., precisely because there's no clear public information, and what there is, is incomplete.

I don't understand your argument, which seems to be, hey, if you're surprised, it's your own fault, because you didn't pay close enough attention to all the readily available information here on this site prior to launch.

You make is sound like people are required to pre-order video games, or buy them on day 1.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: How Should 2k Respond to Community Disappointment over Features Cuts?

You make is sound like people are required to pre-order video games, or buy them on day 1.

Good point! I saw that the game didn't have what "I" wanted in it this year so I chose to wait from CG to NG to see if this changed. Between videos online, reviews, live streams, etc you can find out everything we need to before you buy. I'm now doing the same thing with waiting for reviews of both xbox1 and ps4 before deciding which one to buy. There is more than enough information to make an educated decision if this game or system will meet what you want or expect in a game. I used to be a day 1 purchase guy with both madden and 2k but now I am waiting to get more info 1st.

[Cardot]

Re: How Should 2k Respond to Community Disappointment over Features Cuts?

no, those are things that are not in the base game that the company charges for an additional price. the major problem with VC is that it was littered (or "carpet bombed" as VDusen kindly said) on things that we already had access to free from the start in previous games.(ie. tats and accessories in mycareer, star players in blacktop)

This was the same argument when EA starting charging for alternate uni's in NCAA. I didn't like it, but was also reminded of a classic Simpsons scene:

-- at the Cookie Collossus store, "Bart's Dog Gets an F''
Girl: Aloha! Would you like a free sample?
Homer: The price is right!
Mmm.. Ooh.. Macamadamia nuts.
Girl: If you'd like to buy some, they're only a dollar each.
Homer: Oh, so that's your little plan. Get us addicted, then jack
up the price! ... [meekly] Well, you win.

[seanbarkley]

Re: How Should 2k Respond to Community Disappointment over Features Cuts?

I'm now doing the same thing with waiting for reviews of both xbox1 and ps4 before deciding which one to buy.

Just out of curiosity, which one is winning van? I've already made my decision.


Enviado desde mi iPhone 5 con Tapatalk

[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: How Should 2k Respond to Community Disappointment over Features Cuts?

An interesting contrast is from EA. Their game is **** (2K is great, but stripped down) and came out in a letter acknowledging the problem and letting fans know they'll be working on bringing in the things fans want.

[spankdatazz22]

Re: How Should 2k Respond to Community Disappointment over Features Cuts?

An interesting contrast is from EA. Their game is **** (2K is great, but stripped down) and came out in a letter acknowledging the problem and letting fans know they'll be working on bringing in the things fans want.

So you want a letter/apology/something to make you feel better...? The thing with Madden is that it's been bad for an entire generation - they should be apologizing; they're not saying anything that everyone pretty much already knows. They get additional static for the perception/reality that they killed videogame football competition and didn't deliver a decent product. If next year's game is the same old same old, that acknowledgement won't mean anything.

With NBA basketball it's an entirely different situation - no exclusivity, no one company has an advantage developing an NBA game over another because they paid to gain a competitive edge. In a completely open market 2K's made a game that stands heads and shoulders above the competition. And they have probably the most content/feature rich sports game in current gen. Given what we've seen historically with launch games and I'd think ESPECIALLY since the next gen game and the current gen game were releasing so closely together, there really was no reason for some people to go on a tangent expecting to get everything the last gen game had. No one has a problem with concerns being voiced, and obviously 2K is listening. But imo a lot of this contempt is way too over the top given what 2K did last gen and particularly for what they did deliver as a launch game.

I get that some of you feel slighted, but in the end there's nothing they're going to be able to tell you that you'll accept. And in the end, if they do a worse case scenario and don't add back some of the features that were present in current gen, what good would an apology/acknowledgement today mean? To make you feel better for a while? IF you choose to believe them? Give you a heads up to purchase the competition's game? Because if it were good enough, you guys would've jumped ship long ago. I'm primarily a football fan and I think I have every right to hammer EA on their policies given their involvement with NFL exclusivity. After a while I just stopped caring - they're producing a product I don't like so I choose not to buy it. I'm not going to feel better if EA sends me a personal apology. At the end of the day it's not like anyone here is giving 2K money out of the kindness of their hearts and getting nothing in return.

[King_B_Mack]

Re: How Should 2k Respond to Community Disappointment over Features Cuts?

It sounds like you're saying that posters around here know all the information in advance about a game before it releases. But that's patently not true.

People pay attention to the public statements and read the tea leaves on e3 video footage, etc., precisely because there's no clear public information, and what there is, is incomplete.

I don't understand your argument, which seems to be, hey, if you're surprised, it's your own fault, because you didn't pay close enough attention to all the readily available information here on this site prior to launch.

He's saying that before you buy the game there are more than enough guys on this site that have it and will post videos, impressions, etc. for you to see it and decide whether or not you like what the game has to offer. Nothing about having info prior to release. There's no law out there saying you have to buy the game within the first twenty minutes of release or else you're excluded from buying it after that.

Yes, that's exactly right. I'm absolutely questioning their direction based off of my personal likes and dislikes. When I made the transition from NBA Live 2002 to NBA 2K2, it was because 2K's direction seemed plainly clear to be in sync with what I was looking for out of an NBA basketball game. 2K made no qualms about it, they were out to make the most realistic NBA simulation of all-time and because that's exactly what I was looking for, it was a match made in heaven.

And this is my point. They're still making a realistic, simulation basketball game. Just because you don't personally like the RPG element of a career mode doesn't mean it's not a realistic simulation game. I don't understand how the idea of VC or create-a-player getting left out one year translates to their direction not being the most realistic NBA simulation ever.

In part, what this thread is touching on is the recent lack of clarity from 2K. A lot of us can no longer make sense of their overarching mission statement. Is it to make the most realistic NBA simulation ever, both on and off the court? Is it to give what active social media consumers vote for the most? Is it to sell as much product as possible by any means possible?

I'm curious to know whether this direction change shall continue into the future, building off of NBA 2K13 and NBA 2K14, or if we can ever expect a return to a lot of the more realistic and controllable aspects I most value. I am a consumer who is questioning whether a product I've loyally followed over the past 12 years is slowly moving away from my personal preferences. In lieu of explanations (though I appreciate Leftos saying what he's allowed to say), I have a lot of questions.

Again, explain to me how adding virtual currency is moving away from realistic simulation basketball? I'm not even trying to be funny here, I'm trying to see where you're coming from and right now, I'm a blind man.

I believe this may be a little bit aside from the original thread topic, but I do not think all microtransactions were created equal. There's a difference between GTA V offering me a blimp for pre-ordering their game and NBA 2K carpet bombing their entire product with virtual currency.

no, those are things that are not in the base game that the company charges for an additional price. the major problem with VC is that it was littered (or "carpet bombed" as VDusen kindly said) on things that we already had access to free from the start in previous games.(ie. tats and accessories in mycareer, star players in blacktop)

You don't have to spend your own money on VC. Do you not buy tats in GTA? Are clothes not bought in GTA for your characters? Cars? Haircuts? Is it okay because in GTA it isn't called VC they still call it money? Explain to me how you're becoming less realistic having to spend money on clothes, tats, etc. in game? You earn money doing jobs in GTA that can be used on real estate, cars, etc. You earn VC in 2K by playing the game, doing your career and so on. Is it really that different?

[LorenzoDC]

Re: How Should 2k Respond to Community Disappointment over Features Cuts?

He's saying that before you buy the game there are more than enough guys on this site that have it and will post videos, impressions, etc. for you to see it and decide whether or not you like what the game has to offer. Nothing about having info prior to release. There's no law out there saying you have to buy the game within the first twenty minutes of release or else you're excluded from buying it after that.

You don't have to spend your own money on VC. Do you not buy tats in GTA? Are clothes not bought in GTA for your characters? Cars? Haircuts? Is it okay because in GTA it isn't called VC they still call it money? Explain to me how you're becoming less realistic having to spend money on clothes, tats, etc. in game? You earn money doing jobs in GTA that can be used on real estate, cars, etc. You earn VC in 2K by playing the game, doing your career and so on. Is it really that different?

I'll chime in on the two questions I bolded.

First, I understand what he's saying now, but I still don't see how it's relevant to the question of how 2k responds to hard core game fan disappointment. The timing of the consumer reaction doesn't really matter. Sure, as a consumer, it's a better strategy to wait and resist the marketing hype before game launch. But I'm not asking about consumer strategy, I'm talking about game maker communications strategy.

From the game publisher's perspective, launch day and launch day response is important, because buzz makes or breaks sales, and investors watch it closely. Loyal customers create that buzz. 2k pays people whose only job is to manage communications with hard core fans, so they think it's important, too. They have developers who, like the Valve devs in article linked in the OP, recognize that some of the best ideas come from the engaged fans. Those devs recognize the value in product creation that the loyal customers can deliver.

So, to my mind anyway, it's best not to do what EA does and leave negative reactions linger out there if they don't have to. Some questions can be answered, and good marketing and product management doesn't let stuff like that create a negative trend. This is basic business stuff, it's kind of surprising to me that anyone would find my merely asking the question of how they should respond to be somehow. . . what. . . uppity, inappropriate? Nowhere have I ranted or engaged in hyperbole or conspiracy thinking, etc.

Second, from what I can tell, the VC objections are about the pricing and balancing mostly. In GTA5, you can make enough money pretty easiy to buys stuff and customize your toons. I'm one of those people you mention who has not bought a new console yet as I didn't want to be first out of the gate, but from what I can gather, VC prices and toll booths are steep enough and pervasive enough that players are finding they get in the way of playing basic parts of the game. And GTA5 doesn't offer you the option of coughing up your credit card for in game cash, so that game is not trying to harvest residual revenue from the title beyond the initial purchase price and some future DLC..