Did We Get Bamboozled?

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  • seanbarkley
    MVP
    • Sep 2008
    • 2098

    #211
    Did We Get Bamboozled?

    THQ was sold at an auction some months ago right?

    I'm with you that it would be stupid to announce all the missing things and bugs your game has beforehand, but after it's launched and they see all the issues customers are having, there's nothing wrong about apologizing for the bunch of bugs this beta version has and keep them informed about how the so needed patches and fixes are going. Jesus, I've seen the ominipotent Rockstar apologizing for GTA V servers and fixed them the next week (2K's have been broken for years), Blizzard apologizing for bugs in WOW, what's so wrong about doing that?

    Those companies LIVE because of their customers, and when they forget about it and start just caring about their revenues even if it involves cheating their loyal clients is when things usually start going downhill. I'm not saying this is "exactly" this case, but it's the logical consequence.
    If you like my work I appreciate any help: https://www.paypal.me/s3anbarkl3y

    Comment

    • franzis
      MVP
      • Mar 2008
      • 1451

      #212
      Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

      I will strictly speak for myself but in Italy we say something like "the worst deaf is the one who doesn't WANT to listen"
      You could have signs of the direction where 2k was going:
      - The only modes that received major (or any) improvements in CG 2k14 were MyPlayer and MyTeam, which are strongly linked to a) VC, b) casual fans, c) online
      - The increase of VC prices in CG 2k14
      - The new modes announced for NG 2k14, the Park and MyGM, were clearly VC based
      - The removal in NG 2k14 of the only modes (Association, Playoff, ecc) that were deep, offline and VC free
      - the removal of simple features like plays practices that were strictly connected to sim-head, offline players

      Those hint me to have a "wait & see" approach even after seeing the OMG trailer and other stuff

      Today 2k decisions are no more "guesses" or based from feedback from this forum. They collect HUGE amount of data about players habits each time you connect via internet for playing the game, using VC or just downloading the rosters. If you play almost only offline or you don't connect to the servers, your voice isn't even listened by 2k.

      They have numbers saying who are more profitable:
      a) casual players who spend tons of VC, use social media and don't have strange complaints about defensive rotations/rosters/headband colours
      OR
      b) sim-heads who can play multiple seasons with Association mode without spending a single penny for VC
      Last edited by franzis; 12-10-2013, 12:19 PM.

      Comment

      • Slater James
        Rookie
        • Oct 2013
        • 92

        #213
        Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

        Originally posted by seanbarkley
        THQ was sold at an auction some months ago right?

        I'm with you that it would be stupid to announce all the missing things and bugs your game has beforehand, but after it's launched and they see all the issues customers are having, there's nothing wrong about apologizing for the bunch of bugs this beta version has and keep them informed about how the so needed patches and fixes are going. Jesus, I've seen the ominipotent Rockstar apologizing for GTA V servers and fixed them the next week (2K's have been broken for years), Blizzard apologizing for bugs in WOW, what's so wrong about doing that?

        Those companies LIVE because of their customers, and when they forget about it and start just caring about their revenues even if it involves cheating their loyal clients is when things usually start going downhill. I'm not saying this is "exactly" this case, but it's the logical consequence.
        Well done. In the end, people want closure. They want to know that you care about their concerns and can emphasize. Silence reads as lack of concern.

        I think Leftos deserves a good deal of credit for what he's done. He shouldn't be in the fire alone though.

        Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

        Comment

        • STLRams
          MVP
          • Aug 2005
          • 2847

          #214
          Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

          I think the thing that is really bothering us about the game is so many negative things that are going on with it that we didn't expect, but the game looks and can play beautiful and has so much potential. If 2K wouldn't had removed none of the current gen stuff, and the my gm modes and other modes worked correctly, and we could save settings/rosters to the harddrive, and stuff with the rosters didn't feel so restricted - (CAP missing,can't turn off injuries on roster udpates for offline quickgames) this game would have been really legendary. But hopefully 2K will see that this criticism is good from operation sports, because gamers like us, want a full fledged SIM basketball game with all the features and options. Alot of casual users were wowed by the graphics and physics of the game, but guys like us know to get over that and really go deep into the game to see the obvious and behind the scene things that are wrong.

          What also angers alot of us I think, if we knew before the game was released, what we know now, I think alot of us maybe would have bought the current gen version and waited for NBA2K15 next gen. All we can do now is hope patch#3 or possibly a patch#4 fixes the problems with the game instead of waiting for NBA2K15 to give gamers what they have been asking for.

          Comment

          • spankdatazz22
            All Star
            • May 2003
            • 6219

            #215
            Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

            Originally posted by VDusen04
            Perhaps I lucked out a little bit this year. As I mentioned on the first page of this thread, on the heels of my 2K13 experience (where the VC madness & auto-saving really began to ramp up) I came into 2K14's season more skeptical than at any other point in my 2K playing history.

            With such skepticism in tow, I think it was a little easier for me to wade through the thick mess of promotion and employee testimonials in order to get an idea of what the new products may have in store. I happened to notice that a lot of key questions were being strangely ignored or deferred. And even then, my choice to buy or not buy the product was still quite a bit of a guessing game.

            If 2K were transparent and stated what you suggested ("We're looking to go away from making a realistic simulation game and cater to casual fans so we can make more money"), you're right, that wouldn't have made me more likely to buy the game. But I surely would have appreciated their willingness to be forthright about their product, thus allowing us all to make educated consumer decisions.

            I think that's the essence of the debate here. Was 2K straight forward regarding what their games would and would not contain? Or is it possible they intentionally withheld very important details that could have swayed consumer decisions? If the latter were true, is it the right move? Perhaps it led to more purchases this year, but will such bamboozling lead to reduced consumer confidence in future iterations (as it did for me spanning from 2K13 to 2K14)?
            I don't see how luck is involved either. You already said it wouldn't have made a difference if they told you they were purposely going in a direction opposite of your desires. Suppose they said they WERE going in the direction you choose but the games still are what they are? I doubt it still would've made a difference to you. That's why I say I'm not sure what it is some of you guys want to hear. At the end of the day you're going to purchase the game on it's merits, not because of what's being said. I'm sure you'd like them to address you(r concerns) directly, but at the end of the day I doubt you're going to make a purchasing decision based on what you're being told versus what you feel the game is.
            HBO's "The Wire" should rank as one of the top 10 shows EVER on tv - period

            XBL gamertag: d0meBreaker22 (that's a zero)

            congrats Steelers, city of Pittsburgh, and Steeler Nation - SIX TIME WORLD CHAMPS

            Comment

            • spankdatazz22
              All Star
              • May 2003
              • 6219

              #216
              Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

              Originally posted by STLRams
              I think the thing that is really bothering us about the game is so many negative things that are going on with it that we didn't expect, but the game looks and can play beautiful and has so much potential. If 2K wouldn't had removed none of the current gen stuff, and the my gm modes and other modes worked correctly, and we could save settings/rosters to the harddrive, and stuff with the rosters didn't feel so restricted - (CAP missing,can't turn off injuries on roster udpates for offline quickgames) this game would have been really legendary. But hopefully 2K will see that this criticism is good from operation sports, because gamers like us, want a full fledged SIM basketball game with all the features and options. Alot of casual users were wowed by the graphics and physics of the game, but guys like us know to get over that and really go deep into the game to see the obvious and behind the scene things that are wrong.
              It appears there's a pretty thin line here between what can be considered "legendary" and the game being designated "a complete fail" (a few posts ahead of yours).

              I understand the frustration with modes not working properly, people being able to get online, etc. Those are par for the course with most new games. But 2K DID say there wouldn't be an Association mode in the game. They DID say the modes being introduced were new if I'm not mistaken. Maybe it's just me, but when I hear something's new, I don't automatically assume that means "it will work perfectly". If anything, I'd assume there's likely to be unforeseen problems. I'm not trying to absolve 2K of their responsibility, but it seems like some want to absolve themselves of their responsibility as a consumer in making informed choices. It wasn't only the "casuals" that were wowed by the graphics. The faulting the game because it wasn't "legendary" as a launch title, in their first attempt on the next gen systems, seems like it's a lot to have from an expectations standpoint.

              Originally posted by STLRams
              What also angers alot of us I think, if we knew before the game was released, what we know now, I think alot of us maybe would have bought the current gen version and waited for NBA2K15 next gen. All we can do now is hope patch#3 or possibly a patch#4 fixes the problems with the game instead of waiting for NBA2K15 to give gamers what they have been asking for.
              Why didn't people wait? Obviously many did. Again, it wasn't like 2K put a gun to people's heads and made them purchase the title. They didn't hide the fact that these new modes were being introduced. And I think it was known there would be no 30-team control before launch. Perhaps they should've thought to say there won't be a CAP mode, or won't be [something else]. But as I said before - the next gen systems didn't launch with the capability to play 3D blurays. They likely would've launched without anyone knowing they couldn't play CDs if someone hadn't asked. I don't think there was conniving done on Sony and Microsoft's part to purposely defraud or bamboozle consumers. They likely didn't of either as being major issues that needed to be addressed. I don't get this view that 2K was purposely trying to mislead some of you, when no one made you run out and purchase a new machine at launch. There's always inherent risk in being an early adopter with any hardware/software. It's just a matter of what's acceptable, I guess.
              HBO's "The Wire" should rank as one of the top 10 shows EVER on tv - period

              XBL gamertag: d0meBreaker22 (that's a zero)

              congrats Steelers, city of Pittsburgh, and Steeler Nation - SIX TIME WORLD CHAMPS

              Comment

              • franzis
                MVP
                • Mar 2008
                • 1451

                #217
                Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

                Originally posted by STLRams
                But hopefully 2K will see that this criticism is good from operation sports, because gamers like us, want a full fledged SIM basketball game with all the features and options. Alot of casual users were wowed by the graphics and physics of the game, but guys like us know to get over that and really go deep into the game to see the obvious and behind the scene things that are wrong.
                I may sound rude, but 2k nba games have become something much, much bigger than this forum

                Comment

                • Slater James
                  Rookie
                  • Oct 2013
                  • 92

                  #218
                  Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

                  Originally posted by franzis
                  I may sound rude, but 2k nba games have become something much, much bigger than this forum
                  And their feeling the heat in those places too.

                  Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk

                  Comment

                  • VDusen04
                    Hall Of Fame
                    • Aug 2003
                    • 13029

                    #219
                    Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

                    Originally posted by spankdatazz22
                    I don't see how luck is involved either. You already said it wouldn't have made a difference if they told you they were purposely going in a direction opposite of your desires.
                    I suppose in lieu of luck we could chalk it up as consumer awareness. Through the years, NBA 2K has been a day 1 staple purchase for me. It took a bit of digging, experience, and educated guessing to opt out this year. Perhaps that is my issue. Pre-release was a cluster of confusion. I'd prefer if information released were thorough and transparent so everything was not reduced to a state of, "I don't even know what in the world's going on right now!"

                    Suppose they said they WERE going in the direction you choose but the games still are what they are? I doubt it still would've made a difference to you.
                    I would need some clarification here. What do you mean? As in, if 2K said, "Yes, Create-a-Player is fully available in the exact manner it was on current gen, only with more hair options and the ability to apply goggles and nose masks", then the game turned out not to include that? I'm not sure what you mean it wouldn't have made a difference. To what? Or whom?

                    That's why I say I'm not sure what it is some of you guys want to hear. At the end of the day you're going to purchase the game on it's merits, not because of what's being said. I'm sure you'd like them to address you(r concerns) directly, but at the end of the day I doubt you're going to make a purchasing decision based on what you're being told versus what you feel the game is.
                    I suppose the lesson to take from all of this is not to buy a game on day one and to take any official information releases with a grain of salt. And maybe that's the lesson I learned with NBA 2K13. However, I still maintain that I'd much prefer a company be forthright in their game's features and information instead of challenging all of us to be critical and skeptical enough in our research to discover where they might be telling white lies or leaving out key pieces of info.

                    Comment

                    • STLRams
                      MVP
                      • Aug 2005
                      • 2847

                      #220
                      Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

                      Originally posted by franzis
                      I may sound rude, but 2k nba games have become something much, much bigger than this forum
                      I'm full aware of that, just using this forum as an example, since this is were the discussion is taking place.

                      Comment

                      • spankdatazz22
                        All Star
                        • May 2003
                        • 6219

                        #221
                        Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

                        Originally posted by VDusen04
                        I would need some clarification here. What do you mean? As in, if 2K said, "Yes, Create-a-Player is fully available in the exact manner it was on current gen, only with more hair options and the ability to apply goggles and nose masks", then the game turned out not to include that? I'm not sure what you mean it wouldn't have made a difference. To what? Or whom?
                        lol hopefully you didn't mean that literally, because imo it's a bit much a company would need to be that explicit to satisfy your need for clarification.

                        Originally posted by VDusen04
                        I suppose the lesson to take from all of this is not to buy a game on day one and to take any official information releases with a grain of salt. And maybe that's the lesson I learned with NBA 2K13. However, I still maintain that I'd much prefer a company be forthright in their game's features and information instead of challenging all of us to be critical and skeptical enough in our research to discover where they might be telling white lies or leaving out key pieces of info.
                        Shouldn't that always be the case? I would think you would've learned that way before NBA2K13, and it didn't take a videogame to teach you that. We all want these companies to be forthright in dealing with their customers and giving us as much information as possible. But we shouldn't act like if they tell us more, it makes it more likely we'll purchase their product because it doesn't. I'd think most companies (or even people) are only transparent as they need to be; very few would be willing to set themselves out there as an open book for no reason/get nothing in return.
                        HBO's "The Wire" should rank as one of the top 10 shows EVER on tv - period

                        XBL gamertag: d0meBreaker22 (that's a zero)

                        congrats Steelers, city of Pittsburgh, and Steeler Nation - SIX TIME WORLD CHAMPS

                        Comment

                        • Vni
                          Hall Of Fame
                          • Sep 2011
                          • 14833

                          #222
                          Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

                          Originally posted by franzis
                          I may sound rude, but 2k nba games have become something much, much bigger than this forum
                          I was watching some vlogs of some random guy on youtube the other day (cool story) and he had just bought a PS4 and he said: I got this game, this game and the basketball game.

                          He didn't even say nba 2K he called it the basketball game. The guy is obviously not even a fan of basketball let alone basketball video games. That's how big nba 2K is now.

                          So yeah if 6 old mens from this board aren't buying their game anymore it's not gonna make Ronnie2K cry lol.
                          Last edited by Vni; 12-10-2013, 03:15 PM.

                          Comment

                          • VDusen04
                            Hall Of Fame
                            • Aug 2003
                            • 13029

                            #223
                            Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

                            Originally posted by spankdatazz22
                            lol hopefully you didn't mean that literally, because imo it's a bit much a company would need to be that explicit to satisfy your need for clarification.
                            I meant I would need some clarification from you, because I did not understand that particular portion of your response.

                            Shouldn't that always be the case? I would think you would've learned that way before NBA2K13, and it didn't take a videogame to teach you that. We all want these companies to be forthright in dealing with their customers and giving us as much information as possible.
                            Again looking for clarification, what do you mean "Shouldn't that always be the case?" Are you suggesting no one ever buy a game on release day (in reference to my statement about learning not to buy on day one)? Or that companies be forthright and not turn the promotion of their upcoming game into a mystery crime scene where consumers must dig for the dirt the company pretends doesn't exist? Or merely that any official information should be taken with a grain of salt?

                            But we shouldn't act like if they tell us more, it makes it more likely we'll purchase their product because it doesn't. I'd think most companies (or even people) are only transparent as they need to be; very few would be willing to set themselves out there as an open book for no reason/get nothing in return.
                            I think there's something to be said for honesty. If one wants their promotion to hold any weight, I think trust is a very important aspect of the equation.

                            At this point, if NBA 2K15 promotion includes something regarding, "The Return of Create-a-Player! Bigger and better!", will that news mean anything to consumers? Or will they just be waiting for the other shoe to drop post-release after a 2K refusal to answer gamer's questions about a CAP limit reveals, in fact, a 10-player CAP limit? To put it simply, is there any reason to become excited about pre-release information? Or are we at the point where only once the game has been out for three weeks will we be able to truly gauge what information was truthful?

                            And to head back to the topic at hand, do you believe NBA 2K bamboozled or mis-led consumers this year through a lack of information? Do you believe there were any aspects they were aware of for which they consciously avoided in hopes of roping in gamers who had no reason to assume wouldn't exist or properly function?
                            Last edited by VDusen04; 12-10-2013, 04:11 PM.

                            Comment

                            • Cardot
                              I'm not on InstantFace.
                              • Feb 2003
                              • 6164

                              #224
                              Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

                              Originally posted by VDusen04
                              And to head back to the topic at hand, do you believe NBA 2K bamboozled or mis-lead consumers this year through a lack of information? Do you believe there were aspects they were aware of for which they consciously avoided in hopes of roping in gamers who had no reason to assume wouldn't exist or properly function?
                              Launch games for the 360 and PS3 were bare bones and for some sports games, it took 3 or 4 years to get all features and modes from the previous gen. I fully expected this generation to be the same, and I am still not sure why anyone would think any differently? Maybe too young for gaming during the last transition?

                              Comment

                              • VDusen04
                                Hall Of Fame
                                • Aug 2003
                                • 13029

                                #225
                                Re: Did We Get Bamboozled?

                                Originally posted by Cardot
                                Launch games for the 360 and PS3 were bare bones and for some sports games, it took 3 or 4 years to get all features and modes from the previous gen. I fully expected this generation to be the same, and I am still not sure why anyone would think any differently? Maybe too young for gaming during the last transition?
                                With respect, I am unsure as to whether your response adequately answers the questions posed. Do you feel 2K mis-led consumers through a lack of information? And do you believe there were aspects they were aware of for which they consciously avoided in hopes of roping in gamers who had no reason to assume wouldn't exist or properly function (example: create-a-player, local saves)?

                                If so, do you believe this is an effective and reliable long-term business strategy?

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