2K Sports should be embarrassed by this game.

[Coach2K]

Re: 2K Sports should be embarrassed by this game.

That's the main problem.

It's cool that we're allowed to change sliders in certain modes to make the game play more realistically..but how about they flip it? Make the sliders more realistic be the default, and force the casuals to get better and if they don't like it than make them be the ones who have to change the sliders to enjoy the game.

And you can't even touch the rosters or sliders in MyCareer.

By settings, I mean user v user hof, sim sliders and 12 min quarters with no change in sliders. A good user v user battle that way is a blast. I personally don't ever change the sliders, I only adjust the difficulty.

As far as this MyPlayer thing, I've fired up a MyPlayer to see what's going on there. I chose a pass first point guard and then I played the Rookie Showcase. After putting up 1 point and 9 assists and leading the Elites to a pretty decisive victory, I then got picked up 5th in the draft by the Suns. I purposely haven't upgraded anything because I want to think about what would make the most sense realistically and I'm rated like 63 or 64. It's not really realistic to go from a 63 rated player to a 90 plus rated player in one season so I'm trying to think about what would be realistic and how to go about that and I'm looking for ideas on how to go about that.

But, here's a box score from a Suns game vs the Blazers where I had 3 points, 7 assists and a couple of rebounds and the game was fine. I've got some game footage uploading so if you want you can have a look and maybe help me understand what the problem is and why it's believed to be so impossible to get a good game on it.

Here's the box score though. Settings hof, sim sliders, 12 min quarters.

[HowDareI]

Re: 2K Sports should be embarrassed by this game.

By settings, I mean user v user hof, sim sliders and 12 min quarters with no change in sliders. A good user v user battle that way is a blast. I personally don't ever change the sliders, I only adjust the difficulty.

As far as this MyPlayer thing, I've fired up a MyPlayer to see what's going on there. I chose a pass first point guard and then I played the Rookie Showcase. After putting up 1 point and 9 assists and leading the Elites to a pretty decisive victory, I then got picked up 5th in the draft by the Suns. I purposely haven't upgraded anything because I want to think about what would make the most sense realistically and I'm rated like 63 or 64. It's not really realistic to go from a 63 rated player to a 90 plus rated player in one season so I'm trying to think about what would be realistic and how to go about that and I'm looking for ideas on how to go about that.

But, here's a box score from a Suns game vs the Blazers where I had 3 points, 7 assists and a couple of rebounds and the game was fine. I've got some game footage uploading so if you want you can have a look and maybe help me understand what the problem is and why it's believed to be so impossible to get a good game on it.

Here's the box score though. Settings hof, sim sliders, 12 min quarters.

I'm not trying to toot my own horn but honestly the problem is I'm too good at the game...at least MyCareer mode against the cpu; I know all the plays, so I jump the passes and get steals..I know the defense so I can drive past for layups or assists. Stuff like that.

After you play for awhile I guess you just learn the tendencies of the cpu and it becomes easy, no matter if you're a 65 or a 99 overall.

I think if 2K got teams play-styles down, like how they play pick & rolls, or how they defend against the break, the pace they play at, etc...it would make the game harder. It would definitely help people like me who've been playing forever and know what teams are doing before they even do it.

But no seriously if you haven't played Career yet go ahead and play it for awhile, it's probably really fun if you've never done it before. It's just the gameplay is so easy now after playing it the last 4 years.

[Coach2K]

Re: 2K Sports should be embarrassed by this game.

I'm not trying to toot my own horn but honestly the problem is I'm too good at the game...at least MyCareer mode against the cpu; I know all the plays, so I jump the passes and get steals..I know the defense so I can drive past for layups or assists. Stuff like that.

After you play for awhile I guess you just learn the tendencies of the cpu and it becomes easy, no matter if you're a 65 or a 99 overall.

I think if 2K got teams play-styles down, like how they play pick & rolls, or how they defend against the break, the pace they play at, etc...it would make the game harder. It would definitely help people like me who've been playing forever and know what teams are doing before they even do it.

But no seriously if you haven't played Career yet go ahead and play it for awhile, it's probably really fun if you've never done it before. It's just the gameplay is so easy now after playing it the last 4 years.

I've actually played it before. It's just when I see the phrase "impossible to get a sim game" it makes me want to revisit it and puts some stuff out there because I don't really believe it's true.

[bo.jangles344]

Re: 2K Sports should be embarrassed by this game.

How many minutes did you play? Oh, the box score looks pretty when you're mostly riding the bench and the stimulation stats kick in. But you can't play a few games and still get the feel for our pain. You need to go through the 30 games to get the starting job. You need to sit at 28 minutes and have the coach tell you repeatedly that you're going to get more minutes and not get any more till you hit that 30 game mark. You need to have that game where you can't hit a shot if your life depended on it and then sit throb the cut scene where your teammate offers to help you with your jump shot. Then you need to play the free throw game that follows the same story line. You need to play the game where you're dominating the first half, coach sits you till the 4th quarter and your team is down 20 and coach tells you to bring them back and even when you score 30 points in the 4th win or lose coach tells you you're a failure and cuts your minutes. Then when you've finally gotten your starting position, only then will you see the drastic change in how the game plays. Especially on hof you're going to hate it. The cpu will shoot 85% from the floor no matter what until you sit on the bench and come in down 15 again.

Quite literally, until you spend hours on end there's no possible way we can trust your opinion. The game mode is entirely scripted and the worst part is you have to play every single *** **** game of your rookie season until year 2 when you get to simulate to a key game

[Coach2K]

2K Sports should be embarrassed by this game.

How many minutes did you play? Oh, the box score looks pretty when you're mostly riding the bench and the stimulation stats kick in. But you can't play a few games and still get the feel for our pain. You need to go through the 30 games to get the starting job. You need to sit at 28 minutes and have the coach tell you repeatedly that you're going to get more minutes and not get any more till you hit that 30 game mark. You need to have that game where you can't hit a shot if your life depended on it and then sit throb the cut scene where your teammate offers to help you with your jump shot. Then you need to play the free throw game that follows the same story line. You need to play the game where you're dominating the first half, coach sits you till the 4th quarter and your team is down 20 and coach tells you to bring them back and even when you score 30 points in the 4th win or lose coach tells you you're a failure and cuts your minutes. Then when you've finally gotten your starting position, only then will you see the drastic change in how the game plays. Especially on hof you're going to hate it. The cpu will shoot 85% from the floor no matter what until you sit on the bench and come in down 15 again.

Quite literally, until you spend hours on end there's no possible way we can trust your opinion. The game mode is entirely scripted and the worst part is you have to play every single *** **** game of your rookie season until year 2 when you get to simulate to a key game

Alright I'll try and do that.

I'm not saying your wrong. I'm saying I like to see for myself. The premise I'm going on is that someone said you can't play sim.

So I guess just remember I'm not saying that there aren't problems with how the mode works (putting my PG in at power forward like happened last night). It's just that I question how the mode itself can prevent you from playing a certain brand of basketball.

[Coach2K]

Re: 2K Sports should be embarrassed by this game.

How many minutes did you play? Oh, the box score looks pretty when you're mostly riding the bench and the stimulation stats kick in. But you can't play a few games and still get the feel for our pain. You need to go through the 30 games to get the starting job. You need to sit at 28 minutes and have the coach tell you repeatedly that you're going to get more minutes and not get any more till you hit that 30 game mark. You need to have that game where you can't hit a shot if your life depended on it and then sit throb the cut scene where your teammate offers to help you with your jump shot. Then you need to play the free throw game that follows the same story line. You need to play the game where you're dominating the first half, coach sits you till the 4th quarter and your team is down 20 and coach tells you to bring them back and even when you score 30 points in the 4th win or lose coach tells you you're a failure and cuts your minutes. Then when you've finally gotten your starting position, only then will you see the drastic change in how the game plays. Especially on hof you're going to hate it. The cpu will shoot 85% from the floor no matter what until you sit on the bench and come in down 15 again.

Quite literally, until you spend hours on end there's no possible way we can trust your opinion. The game mode is entirely scripted and the worst part is you have to play every single *** **** game of your rookie season until year 2 when you get to simulate to a key game

Here's that MyPlayer footage to go with the box score. It was 14 minutes off the bench.

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[datking1]

Re: 2K Sports should be embarrassed by this game.

Here's that MyPlayer footage to go with the box score. It was 14 minutes off the bench.

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Coach look at every play on defense. Just the defensive side of the ball and watch how the defensive logic is absolutely non existent. Look at how multiple times because of bad defensive logic on pick and roll plays that the corners are consistently wide open for 3 to be jacked up. Look at how because of all of the animations that players are thrown out of position on the defensive side of the ball.
To say that you want it to replicate basketball exactly as it does in real life may be a little too far fetched but when you have constant players out of position on the defensive side of the ball both on the cpu and on your team there is absolutely no excuse for it. Its been this way for years and if any team ever played defense like that (with the exception of Mike D'Antoni teams) every last one of them would be benched on every level of basketball. That is why 2k should be embarrassed about this game because you have constant flashy dunks on people, constant cross court passes that warp through defenders, constant animation where you think your playing good defense only for the game to move you out of the way when you in good position and get a wide open shot. But you dont have the basic fundamentals of basketball down packed. The pick and roll that is used on 95% of all plays are absolutely broken in 2k. Not to mention that when you called the plays multiple times Channing Frye didnt even bother to come up and set a proper pick.
To see this problem in the game for year after year and call yourself simulation basketball just doesn't go together when the only play that works in the game is the isolation.

[Coach2K]

2K Sports should be embarrassed by this game.

Coach look at every play on defense. Just the defensive side of the ball and watch how the defensive logic is absolutely non existent. Look at how multiple times because of bad defensive logic on pick and roll plays that the corners are consistently wide open for 3 to be jacked up. Look at how because of all of the animations that players are thrown out of position on the defensive side of the ball.
To say that you want it to replicate basketball exactly as it does in real life may be a little too far fetched but when you have constant players out of position on the defensive side of the ball both on the cpu and on your team there is absolutely no excuse for it. Its been this way for years and if any team ever played defense like that (with the exception of Mike D'Antoni teams) every last one of them would be benched on every level of basketball. That is why 2k should be embarrassed about this game because you have constant flashy dunks on people, constant cross court passes that warp through defenders, constant animation where you think your playing good defense only for the game to move you out of the way when you in good position and get a wide open shot. But you dont have the basic fundamentals of basketball down packed. The pick and roll that is used on 95% of all plays are absolutely broken in 2k. Not to mention that when you called the plays multiple times Channing Frye didnt even bother to come up and set a proper pick.
To see this problem in the game for year after year and call yourself simulation basketball just doesn't go together when the only play that works in the game is the isolation.

I've already mentioned on the forums that there are issues with the game like that and that I am not a fan of the way defense is represented in the game. Screens are often set that way and depending on the defense scheme at the time the corner opens up.

I've noticed that as games in the season have gone by that pass to the corner is no longer open as frequently because the CPU teams are looking for it.

The corner opening up like that from one pass away is the biggest problem in the game this year IMO and I think it was brought about because of people unhappy with points in the paint.

While these things are certainly issues, I still don't believe that 2K should be "embarrassed". Offenses and defenses never play perfectly in real life and they shouldn't in the game either.

I see NBA players helping from one pass away when they shouldn't on many occasions and watched them run some pretty crappy offenses too with some pretty poorly set picks.

Regardless of what you think of the gameplay in the video, if the ultimate goal is perfect game play where there are no errors in decisions or actions by CPU players then the standard is too high and a bar they will never reach and it's not realistic either.

We also just differ on definition of sim here. I didn't use my my player to score 75 points, dish out 18 assists and grab 12 boards to help the team win. I played patient basketball to get the other guys involved like a rookie should and got the ball to the open man and played decent defense. I didn't run isolation plays the whole game. Lots of plays work in the game besides those.

The gameplay in that video was close enough to basketball for me to be enjoyable in spite of these things we all would like to see improved.

[Rockie_Fresh88]

Re: 2K Sports should be embarrassed by this game.

I don't see anybody commenting on modes not working and being nearly unplayable ...

[mrchiggs]

Re: 2K Sports should be embarrassed by this game.

How many minutes did you play? Oh, the box score looks pretty when you're mostly riding the bench and the stimulation stats kick in. But you can't play a few games and still get the feel for our pain. You need to go through the 30 games to get the starting job. You need to sit at 28 minutes and have the coach tell you repeatedly that you're going to get more minutes and not get any more till you hit that 30 game mark. You need to have that game where you can't hit a shot if your life depended on it and then sit throb the cut scene where your teammate offers to help you with your jump shot. Then you need to play the free throw game that follows the same story line. You need to play the game where you're dominating the first half, coach sits you till the 4th quarter and your team is down 20 and coach tells you to bring them back and even when you score 30 points in the 4th win or lose coach tells you you're a failure and cuts your minutes. Then when you've finally gotten your starting position, only then will you see the drastic change in how the game plays. Especially on hof you're going to hate it. The cpu will shoot 85% from the floor no matter what until you sit on the bench and come in down 15 again.

Quite literally, until you spend hours on end there's no possible way we can trust your opinion. The game mode is entirely scripted and the worst part is you have to play every single *** **** game of your rookie season until year 2 when you get to simulate to a key game

this post says it all. I remember My team, Jazz was smashing the Lakers by 25... in the middle of the 3rd coach sits me, man I was pumped to get revenge against kobe..... So, I press the sim ahead button. They insert me with 3 seconds down 1 and i'm supposed to hit the winning shot. I didn't even realize it untill they passed me the ball and you could hear the Beep Beep of the time counting down. i was like wtf, so i shot it and of course missed a contested 3. I sat with my controller just like.... really!?

It is terrible scripted... Which for a mode like this isn't necessarily horrible, just that its presented horribly. Its like the researchers for the game didn't research Basketball at all!?

Score 10 in a row, proove you can play in this league.
ummm coach i dropped 71 last game annnnd average 32 ppg...

Down 20 get us within 5 while your teammates play that OLE defense... Then I'll blame you and cut your minutes...

Also, The runner is the Tom Chambers move for mycareer. The Cpu does not miss this shot ever and will spam it when down. At least in superstar mode.

I agree with your original post and this one as well.

2K is now EA (When it comes to NBA2K). Its gotten fat, arrogant and sloppy. I understand the difficulties of making a game but i'm no fool. I just hope they can get a wake up call and stop mailing it in.

[bo.jangles344]

Re: 2K Sports should be embarrassed by this game.

All I'm saying coach, is that you can't play one or two games and offer an opinion. You said very choice words in a previous post and I'm on my phone so I won't quote... But you said if you have an opponent you like to play with, someone you know their tendencies, play on hall of fame and simulation, you can have a good time.

This thread isn't specifically about my career. However, I'm an avid fan of the game mode. I did some homework myself last night. I will post pics and do a video tomorrow of the 4th quarter I played in my career. I want to show you how the game forces you to play in this mode. I'll admit, I got frustrated and did what comes easiest in the mode, I dominated. But I'll also illustrate certain key plays and statistics that validate how hard it is to be a team player. Sure, when you're playing all 5 players on the court you can control how the game flows. But when you're stuck on an island and can only control a single player, while the cpu has full control of 5 other players on the court, and 4 of your teammates, the apparent corners they cut in making the game competitive is glaringly obvious. This isn't just about one game mode. This is about the fundamentals of the game and how hard it is to not just play "sim". The word itself gets flung around like there's ever going to be a fully realistic depiction of a physical sport. The point is that there's no semblance of basketball at all. It's a bunch of cool animations taped together with scotch tape and because it's the best out and we're all fans of the sport itself we play it. But with the graphics and the pedigree of the franchise of previous titles and the love for the game itself we stomach it. If I hadn't spent the initial $60 plus some on vc just to be competitive online the measly $10 they offered me at game stop I wouldn't still own a copy. Luckily I still have a few friends I like to play with online so I'll probably play it for the next couple months, but if they honestly care about their perception from their fans, not even just the "hardcore" minority that we've been slandered by from our own "hardcore" members of this site they'll need to change their tactics moving forward.

I'll try and get my evidence up today. I work nights but I'm off today so I should have some free time.

[Taer]

Re: 2K Sports should be embarrassed by this game.

... We also just differ on definition of sim here. I didn't use my my player to score 75 points, dish out 18 assists and grab 12 boards to help the team win. I played patient basketball to get the other guys involved like a rookie should and got the ball to the open man and played decent defense. I didn't run isolation plays the whole game. Lots of plays work in the game besides those.

The gameplay in that video was close enough to basketball for me to be enjoyable in spite of these things we all would like to see improved.

The gameplay of a singular game indeed is close enough to be enjoyable in spite of these things we all would like improved. Well said.

Where the breakdown occurs is over time from game to game. In order to improve the player you either need to earn VC/SP ingame or purchase it. The way you earn this is by playing alpha-dog hero ball and taking things to an extreme outside the norm.

Before the game starts there is a social media challenge - in order to meet it, I need to score 40 points or make 10 assists. It will not matter the details of that particular game - if I don't meet the challenge I won't get the VC/SP I need to improve my player.

During the game, even if I already have 32 points scored, a dynamic challenge will arise which directs me to score 10 straight points for my team, ignoring everything else. If I fail that because I saw a better positioned teammate and dished the ball to him for the points then I can not get enough VC/SP to improve my desired category.

Likewise if certain dynamic challenges arise (such as give your team the lead before the game ends) you are forced to play continually until the game ends or you make the goal. There are work-arounds to get you out of this forced play - such as intentionally fouling and throwing a full court shot on your next possession and if you do this, you might get subbed out but then again you might not and the only way to get a substitute for your player is to foul out of the game.

Sometimes (at least on the old-gen/PC version) if you are chosen for the All-Star Dunk contest, the mode will glitch and the rest of your season will be fubar. I once had to redo my all-star weekend 5 times before it worked as intended. It took 2k three years to correct one all-star weekend related bug, how long will it take them to fix this one?

All of this is not what bothers me the most. What bothers me are things like the substitution logic, mid-season trade logic but not even these critical flaws match the way that the mode pushes you towards non-sim results. How many 50+ point games in row should occur before the ai really does something about it?

I understand people desire to play with D. Rose in a fantasy setting but should Kobe be playing as if he was fully healthy from the beginning of a season until the final game of the Finals in this year's version? Why don't injuries happen at all? If I play all the games and I am on the floor for 40 minutes in 80% of those games should I not expect to be fatigued at the least?

I love the MyPlayer mode. I do miss many of the elements seen in prior versions however and feel that 2k caters to the poster above who gets bored if something new does not happen every game more and more each year instead of honing and fine tuning a good mode into a great mode.

[bo.jangles344]

Re: 2K Sports should be embarrassed by this game.

Lol... Taer, I've read your posts and value your opinion on a lot of things and I hope you're not just jumping in and taking shots at me. I've never once said I want new features. I've said repeatedly that until they fix on court issues I don't care about the bells and whistles they're throwing on every year. Please, read the thread if you're going to take shots at people.

[Taer]

Re: 2K Sports should be embarrassed by this game.

Lol... Taer, I've read your posts and value your opinion on a lot of things and I hope you're not just jumping in and taking shots at me. I've never once said I want new features. I've said repeatedly that until they fix on court issues I don't care about the bells and whistles they're throwing on every year. Please, read the thread if you're going to take shots at people.

If I gave the impression I was taking shots at you, I apologize. That was not my intent. I actually think you voice some very valid concerns.

[I Djm]

Re: 2K Sports should be embarrassed by this game.

I think what me and a few other people are trying to say is that until they say something like "2k15 to feature improved ai, defensive controls, passing, and rebounding" we're not really going to care what next year's game has to offer. I love the term "legacy issues" because you're recognizing these have been in the game for years on end. The fact that they haven't fixed these issues and they've continually deteriorated the enjoyment of this game year after year is what I feel offended by.

How is it they claim to have built this system from the ground up but still have the exact same issues as last gen? How can you say they took the series in a new direction and then make excuses in the same post that it's the first year of next gen?

The fact that madden has implemented at least some sort of physics the last 2 years and was able to implement the same thing on next gen is astounding when thinking that the last 2 development cycles 2k has been unable to implement some version as well. I'd like to argue that 2k is now behind the times as far as gameplay is concerned and with the implementation of vc and the fact that they have cornered the market there's no excuse for "legacy issues" and server issues and how in general the game plays seeing as that money its obviously not a problem.

If you're not appalled by the fact you can't even change your socks in my career then I really don't understand how you can defend the game.

Something so simple, among myriad of other issues just go unnoticed.

That's what's so offensive. You take my money and throw me the finger.

No thanks.

it's a shame how they turned something simple like being able to choose your sleeves and the colors to only really black or white something we had since 2k10 but now we need vc for something so simple