NBA 2K15 New Shot Meter Explained

[quehouston]

Re: NBA 2K15 New Shot Meter Explained

From that last response he responded to me I get it now. The meter is just the teaching tool to show you which particular shots you have a hard time hitting the particular shot. The target to hit perfect release will be harder, or easier depending on all of those factors he mentioned, open, contest, shot fatigue, hot spot, cold spot and rating.

The game is teaching casuals, sim guys and we don't even realize it yet. The guys who know the releases and knows the plays how to execute the offense to the strength of their players will be rewarded the most. The game is rewarding your NBA knowledge as long as you can transfer some of your stick skills as well.

This seems to be the case, and I love it.

I just hope the latency adjustments they made online to make the meter "more forgiving" than offline doesn't bail people out. I hope its just as challenging online as it is offline, and good defense is rewarded.

[23]

Re: NBA 2K15 New Shot Meter Explained

From that last response he responded to me I get it now. The meter is just the teaching tool to show you which particular shots you have a hard time hitting the particular shot. The target to hit perfect release will be harder, or easier depending on all of those factors he mentioned, open, contest, shot fatigue, hot spot, cold spot and rating.

The game is teaching casuals, sim guys and we don't even realize it yet. The guys who know the releases and knows the plays how to execute the offense to the strength of their players will be rewarded the most. The game is rewarding your NBA knowledge as long as you can transfer some of your stick skills as well.

To me with Russ' example it will stop every player from looking alike no matter where they are on the floor. Jimmy Butler's abilities won't be as on point as Melo's in the same situation. You can try but the level of success is much much lower.

So the example, you know RWB's shot at the elbow/ft line area is definitely him...but try doing that same thing with Kyrie Irving and the results just arent the same so RWB looks like RWB more than anyone else.

[Sundown]

Re: NBA 2K15 New Shot Meter Explained

The game is teaching casuals, sim guys and we don't even realize it yet. The guys who know the releases and knows the plays how to execute the offense to the strength of their players will be rewarded the most. The game is rewarding your NBA knowledge as long as you can transfer some of your stick skills as well.

This is a great point. Up to now, 2K has only informed you of bad shots after the fact somewhat vaguely and rewarded you too often for them. It didn't reinforce the idea that a shot might be bad earlier, though sim guys and basketball nerds can see the bad shot coming. The meter gives you much more dynamic information even as you're setting up the shot.

It makes me wonder what would happen if the ball handler had the shot meter on all the time that constantly fluctuated. Could be too much handholding and visually distracting however

Does the shot meter change as defenders close out for guys with long animations?

[Sundown]

Re: NBA 2K15 New Shot Meter Explained

Speaking of timing of animations, I always thought it a bit silly that guys prided themselves in knowing releases and wanting the game to be less accessible for those who didn't when knowing a player's release has no real basketball analog. It's really kind of a weird meta game for a basketball sim.

Sure, it's nice and rewarding knowing your own team, but it's just jarring being incompetent switching to another, at least for a bit. I always have to apologize for being crap playing a different team, or apologize for the game when my opponent doesn't know the releases of theirs. My friend recently told me I changed his 2K life when I'd simply pointed out the flashing circle for learning releases put in a few years ago. I know some folks didn't want that in either. :P

[jfsolo]

Re: NBA 2K15 New Shot Meter Explained

Speaking of timing of animations, I always thought it a bit silly that guys prided themselves in knowing releases and wanting the game to be less accessible for those who didn't when knowing a player's release has no real basketball analog. It's really kind of a weird meta game for a basketball sim.

Sure, it's nice and rewarding knowing your own team, but it's just jarring being incompetent switching to another, at least for a bit. I always have to apologize for being crap playing a different team, or apologize for the game when my opponent doesn't know the releases of theirs. My friend recently told me I changed his 2K life when I'd simply pointed out the flashing circle for learning releases put in a few years ago. I know some folks didn't want that in either. :P

Zigzag cheese is gone. We specifically put in other measures to counter it.

Strategy and shot selection are absolutely more important than stick skills. Da Czar has proven this and caused me to have to re-tune the shot timing system several times to compensate. He knows the plays inside and out like the back of his hand and can breakdown the defense better than anyone I've seen play our game. He's no slouch on the sticks either so it was a deadly combo. We went back and forth with several iterations and I'm confident we're in a good spot with the balance. At least, I haven't heard any complaints from him recently.

If you run plays and get fantastic looks but suck at timing you can still do pretty well. If you take bad shots but are amazing at timing, you'll do okay for a while but will probably lose. If you can manage to do both like Czar you'll be vicious in 15. If you're bad at both, then you might have to bump the diff. to Rookie.

I can't put a percentage on it, but for many online players, it being a contest of hand-eye coordination and controller wizardry, is far and away of paramount importance. Running sets to get quality looks and playing to the strength of your personnel is of far less consequence. Someone else know all the plays of a team, in their opinion is not the same kind of accomplishment as them know the release points of all the players on a team. In other words stick skills>knowledge base.

That why those quotes by Beluba are so interesting. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that those us who are basically just Association players, would maybe play online some/more if controller wizardry didn't allow players to have such great success even if they play nonsensically.

[Sundown]

Re: NBA 2K15 New Shot Meter Explained

That why those quotes by Beluba are so interesting. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think that those us who are basically just Association players, would maybe play online some/more if controller wizardry didn't allow players to have such great success even if they play nonsensically.

See, it's not even just controller wizardry that wins online games. It's knowing how to cheese, what animations to exploit, what overpowered defensive set to leave on, and what real life basketball instincts to ignore.

Of course stick skills are required-- you need fast response and instincts to pull off some NBA level playmaking-- and I've been destroyed by guys with great iso stick skills while also playing a game that actually kind of resembles real life basketball. Competent isomotion also requires a fair amount of stick finess.

It's when cheese and meta-gaming matters more than sound basketball decisions and iq that bothers me and drags the game down online. I love that this year's design is focused on combatting much of it. I also hope these measures aren't nerfed online because last year's online play wasn't as balanced or realistic as we had hoped.

[24ct]

Re: NBA 2K15 New Shot Meter Explained

The meter is active for all manually releasable shots, including post jumpers. But not layups. My shots engineer and I experimented with it and decided the world is not ready for that.

But it's coming???

As an option for layups next year maybe??

*prays* lol

But really...if you added this on layups this would help define skill vs luck

[alabamarob]

Re: NBA 2K15 New Shot Meter Explained

See, it's not even just controller wizardry that wins online games. It's knowing how to cheese, what animations to exploit, what overpowered defensive set to leave on, and what real life basketball instincts to ignore.

Of course stick skills are required-- you need fast response and instincts to pull off some NBA level playmaking-- and I've been destroyed by guys with great iso stick skills while also playing a game that actually kind of resembles real life basketball. Competent isomotion also requires a fair amount of stick finess.

It's when cheese and meta-gaming matters more than sound basketball decisions and iq that bothers me and drags the game down online. I love that this year's design is focused on combatting much of it. I also hope these measures aren't nerfed online because last year's online play wasn't as balanced or realistic as we had hoped.

You and the post before you have just made the best posts (outside of dev posts) of the day. I have always broken the player types into two groups. Video game guys who want total control, total player movement control, immediate response time, dribble stick quickness 120 percent on ball defense as guys who place stick skills first, because stick skills has little to do with basketball iq and strategy. Stick skills are the equivalent of athleticism to me. You need a certain level to get into the league but it shouldnt make gerald green better than larry bird.

The second group is the nba guy who only plays sports video games and his main interest is exploting mismatches, implementing strategy and trying to replicate what he or she sees when they watch games. This guy is usually older and a little grumpier when it comes to playstyle.

The video game guys know all the winning animations and ins and outs of the game. They dominate online bball. The grumpy nba guys can compete with startegy and bball knowledge, but 2k over the years have always made stick skills most important.

I dont mind losing to a guy that knows bball and happens to have better stick skills than me, but when it is someone who drops 30 points a game with dennis schroeder or cartier martin because they have mastered shot releases, animations and can score 100 plus while running zero offense. It makes me realize why I still play 2k11 every summer. Hopefully, 2k15 will bring strategy back.


Beluba seems to be taking away the animation abuse and I appreciate that. 2k15 seems to be what we all want.

[NewYork27]

Re: NBA 2K15 New Shot Meter Explained

Looks and sounds like we are getting a TRUE basketball simulation game this year! Thank you!

[Eman5805]

Re: NBA 2K15 New Shot Meter Explained

Zigzag? The heck's that?

[blues rocker]

Re: NBA 2K15 New Shot Meter Explained

Strategy and shot selection are absolutely more important than stick skills. Da Czar has proven this and caused me to have to re-tune the shot timing system several times to compensate. He knows the plays inside and out like the back of his hand and can breakdown the defense better than anyone I've seen play our game. He's no slouch on the sticks either so it was a deadly combo. We went back and forth with several iterations and I'm confident we're in a good spot with the balance. At least, I haven't heard any complaints from him recently.

If you run plays and get fantastic looks but suck at timing you can still do pretty well. If you take bad shots but are amazing at timing, you'll do okay for a while but will probably lose. If you can manage to do both like Czar you'll be vicious in 15. If you're bad at both, then you might have to bump the diff. to Rookie.

the part in bold above is where i have an issue.

you shouldn't be able to "do okay" by taking bad shots....you should do terribly. my opinion is the game doesn't punish bad shots enough....so people are able to hang around in games and stay within 10 points by taking bad shots...when they should be getting blown out by 20-30 points. if you take bad shots, you shouldn't "probably lose," you should DEFINITELY lose...and lose by a lot. i should also clarify that on this topic i'm mostly referring to ONLINE play.

this area is where i really liked 2k11. users who took bad shots would quickly get down by 15-20 points and had no chance of coming back if they continued their bad shot selection...now the same type of user usually gets a few comeback boosts that allow them to stay within 10 points or so.

bring back blowouts...blowouts are warranted when a lot of bad shots are being taken. i should be able to destroy an opponent by 30 points if he's just jacking up garbage and ramming into the paint...problem is, sometimes i only beat him by 9-12 points. that dude should be getting BLOWN OUT by 20-30 every game. instead, he's able to hang around in games and even win sometimes...by taking ALL BAD SHOTS. not cool. i understand casuals have fragile egos and they need to feel like they're doing well to keep them playing the game. i get it...it's business - that's how you keep people buying the game. people won't keep buying a game if they feel like they're terrible at it...but how are these people ever gonna learn if they're able to hang in games and stay within 10 points by playing terrible basketball? make it tough again. difficult games like Demon's Souls are on the rise...i'm sick of forgiving games. let's challenge people again rather than coddling them.

[NewYork27]

Re: NBA 2K15 New Shot Meter Explained

Zigzag? The heck's that?

It just means less cheese!

[jfsolo]

Re: NBA 2K15 New Shot Meter Explained

See, it's not even just controller wizardry that wins online games. It's knowing how to cheese, what animations to exploit, what overpowered defensive set to leave on, and what real life basketball instincts to ignore.

Of course stick skills are required-- you need fast response and instincts to pull off some NBA level playmaking-- and I've been destroyed by guys with great iso stick skills while also playing a game that actually kind of resembles real life basketball. Competent isomotion also requires a fair amount of stick finess.

It's when cheese and meta-gaming matters more than sound basketball decisions and iq that bothers me and drags the game down online. I love that this year's design is focused on combatting much of it. I also hope these measures aren't nerfed online because last year's online play wasn't as balanced or realistic as we had hoped.

"Controller Wizardry" is my own euphemism for cheese and exploitive play, so I agree with you 100 percent.

the part in bold above is where i have an issue. you shouldn't be able to "do okay" by taking bad shots....you should do terribly. my opinion is the game doesn't punish bad shots enough....so people are able to hang around in games and stay within 10 points by taking bad shots...when they should be getting blown out by 20 points. if you take bad shots, you shouldn't "probably lose," you should DEFINITELY lose...and lose by a lot.

this area is where i really liked 2k11. users who took back shots would quickly get down by 15-20 points and had no chance of coming back if they continued their bad shot selection...now the same type of user usually gets a few comeback boosts that allow them to stay within 10 points or so. bring back blowouts...blowouts are warranted when a lot of bad shots are being taken. i should be able to destroy an opponent by 30 points if he's just jacking up garbage and ramming into the paint...problem is, sometimes i only beat him by 9-12 points. that dude should be getting BLOWN OUT by 20-30 every game. instead, he's able to hang around in games and even win sometimes...by taking ALL BAD SHOTS.

I agree, but it seems that since a lot of the people, maybe even the majority(sad to say)who buy this game, play that style of ball, they're not going to completely alienate that part of their consumer base by having them be totally unable to compete and many times win, in spite of their poor decision making. It seems as if they were much harder of that kind of play a few years back, but backed off, probably because there was a public outcry bemoaning the failure levels that you mention.

I don't like it, but I get why they do it, so that's why, IMO, random online games will never be a plus gaming experience. They do seem to be eliminating the most egregious, non basketball type exploits, however, so the experience isn't totally unpalatable.

[turty11]

Re: NBA 2K15 New Shot Meter Explained

are people really complaining about being good with the r-stick is cheese or did i miss-read some posts?

please clarify it in 1-3 sentences not a paragraph (my eyes hurt from the DMV)

[bls]

Re: NBA 2K15 New Shot Meter Explained

Strategy and shot selection are absolutely more important than stick skills. Da Czar has proven this and caused me to have to re-tune the shot timing system several times to compensate. He knows the plays inside and out like the back of his hand and can breakdown the defense better than anyone I've seen play our game. He's no slouch on the sticks either so it was a deadly combo. We went back and forth with several iterations and I'm confident we're in a good spot with the balance. At least, I haven't heard any complaints from him recently.

If you run plays and get fantastic looks but suck at timing you can still do pretty well. If you take bad shots but are amazing at timing, you'll do okay for a while but will probably lose. If you can manage to do both like Czar you'll be vicious in 15. If you're bad at both, then you might have to bump the diff. to Rookie.

Have you guys fixed plays breaking? You mentioned Da Czar running plays, but im unable to do so in online games due to plays constantly breaking.