NBA 2K15: Tweet From Scott O'Gallagher Claims 1-3-1 and Charge Cheese Eliminated

[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: NBA 2K15: Tweet From Scott O'Gallagher Claims 1-3-1 and Charge Cheese Eliminated

Im strictly an offline player but with the changes to shooting and this, Im going to try out some online gameplay.

[23]

Re: NBA 2K15: Tweet From Scott O'Gallagher Claims 1-3-1 and Charge Cheese Eliminated

I play offline with my friends and still complain. Because some of the past gameplay awarded cheese play, period.

People are just wary that 1-3-1 was removed because they actually failed to plug the holes in the gameplay that made it overpowered-- but that's apparently not the case, and it was removed in addition to needed fixes. So the people who complained complained for the right reason. They just didn't have all the facts on hand.

Not plugging exploits is completely 2k's fault. And 2k seems to be acknowledging that. If people didn't have legitimate complaints and if 2k didn't address them, the game simply doesn't get better and more sim. Just because you can't fix everything at once forever or exploits can be found eventually doesn't mean you give up and accept NBA jam. Blaming misbehaving players has always been the biggest and most disingenuous of copouts-- they're the ones that tell you how far you are from your design goals. And I've always felt how a design truly plays is how it plays at its highest no-holds-barred level.

The game has simply gotten better with anti cheese changes addressing complaints, and I'm glad Mike, Da Czar, and OG are out to squelch that cheese and seem committed to the task long term. I'm glad they don't seem to be discounting complaints from sim guys who want a more realistic game, or shrugging their shoulders and saying "good enough" and "just play with your friends". It's how great things are made.

You simply cannot be serious about game design if you are more willing to blame your users and make excuses for your product than you are in finding faults and holes in your design.

Sorry, this topic just gets me fired up. I've seen a game's community so afraid of unwanted behavior and players that they squelched ideas for what would be popular modes that they feared would attract such players, rather than think about what was wrong with the game mechanics that encouraged such behavior and how improvements would spill over to their gameplay as well. Unrelated or not, the game series never progressed much beyond that and mostly died.

Well what I'm talking about is askng things to be fixed and when it is people were still complaining about it being gone and fixed.

Czar said it was fixed Scott said it was gone and it didn't matter anyway whether it is or not.

Chris Smoove came on here saying it'll be fixed when it's gone and that's exactly what happened along with advice from actual nba coaches. .... no matter what man some dudes just love to log on and complain like it's a cultural tradition

[23]

Re: NBA 2K15: Tweet From Scott O'Gallagher Claims 1-3-1 and Charge Cheese Eliminated

I play offline with my friends and still complain. Because some of the past gameplay awarded cheese play, period.

People are just wary that 1-3-1 was removed because they actually failed to plug the holes in the gameplay that made it overpowered-- but that's apparently not the case, and it was removed in addition to needed fixes. So the people who complained complained for the right reason. They just didn't have all the facts on hand.

Not plugging exploits is completely 2k's fault. And 2k seems to be acknowledging that. If people didn't have legitimate complaints and if 2k didn't address them, the game simply doesn't get better and more sim. Just because you can't fix everything at once forever or exploits can be found eventually doesn't mean you give up and accept NBA jam. Blaming misbehaving players has always been the biggest and most disingenuous of copouts-- they're the ones that tell you how far you are from your design goals. And I've always felt how a design truly plays is how it plays at its highest no-holds-barred level.

The game has simply gotten better with anti cheese changes addressing complaints, and I'm glad Mike, Da Czar, and OG are out to squelch that cheese and seem committed to the task long term. I'm glad they don't seem to be discounting complaints from sim guys who want a more realistic game, or shrugging their shoulders and saying "good enough" and "just play with your friends". It's how great things are made.

You simply cannot be serious about game design if you are more willing to blame your users and make excuses for your product than you are in finding faults and holes in your design.

Sorry, this topic just gets me fired up. I've seen a game's community so afraid of unwanted behavior and players that they squelched ideas for what would be popular modes that they feared would attract such players, rather than think about what was wrong with the game mechanics that encouraged such behavior and how improvements would spill over to their gameplay as well. Unrelated or not, the game series never progressed much beyond that and mostly died.

I don't think we're saying the same thing Sundown. I agree with you that exploits should be fixed.

I'll pm you later about what I mean

[Sundown]

Re: NBA 2K15: Tweet From Scott O'Gallagher Claims 1-3-1 and Charge Cheese Eliminated

Well what I'm talking about is askng things to be fixed and when it is people were still complaining about it being gone and fixed.

Czar said it was fixed Scott said it was gone and it didn't matter anyway whether it is or not.

Chris Smoove came on here saying it'll be fixed when it's gone and that's exactly what happened along with advice from actual nba coaches. .... no matter what man some dudes just love to log on and complain like it's a cultural tradition

Again, I only see people complaining because they reasonably feared the root cause of overpowered 1-3-1 wasn't fixed (where it affects other aspects of gameplay) and it was removed as a stopgap measure.

I really haven't seen anyone complain just to complain, and the complaints seemed to come from the right mindset even if misinformed.

I had that same concern and I know OG's response set me at ease and I'm now even more excited about their dedication to NBA simulation from both a mechanic and playbook angle.

[jaateloauto]

Re: NBA 2K15: Tweet From Scott O'Gallagher Claims 1-3-1 and Charge Cheese Eliminated

I'm usually one to object when anything is removed from the game, but really 1-3-1 is usually used just to cheese online. Last year with some zone killing plays being gone and other plays being broken it was more annoying to get around it. Hopefully we'll see some new plays that are specifically meant to play against 3-2 and 2-3.

[Sinner]

Re: NBA 2K15: Tweet From Scott O'Gallagher Claims 1-3-1 and Charge Cheese Eliminated

If none of the NBA teams used a true 1-3-1 zone then I'm glad it's been taking out..works for me. I usually play offline and when I do play online it's with friends I know but over all in any game that i'm playing some random person I'm playing to have fun, I win some and I loose some. I mostly play on ball but there are times when I switch and want to play off ball...that's my choice.

I don't care if my record in NBA2k or any game doesn't look as good to others I buy my games and when I choose to play someone online I picked my team and they pick theirs.

My team just like my opponents team has 5 players on the court and I feel like I can choose to play any of the 5 players on the court at any time...some of ya'll are worse than Baseball with these unwritten rules.

[bumpyface]

The underlying issues of spacing and animations are not being addressed by removing 1-3-1 and the charge cheese. I'm glad to see the charge cheese go, but we need the other issues addressed. If the mechanics and speed were how they should be, these issues would not have been a problem in the first place. I would like to see 2k address these issues. Things like the players moving faster than passes.

[Sasquash]

Re: NBA 2K15: Tweet From Scott O'Gallagher Claims 1-3-1 and Charge Cheese Eliminated

2K lacks defensive counters for all these various offensive moves and schemes already.. And has the nerve to remove defense .. Sad

[DaBoyBk]

Re: NBA 2K15: Tweet From Scott O'Gallagher Claims 1-3-1 and Charge Cheese Eliminated

2K lacks defensive counters for all these various offensive moves and schemes already.. And has the nerve to remove defense .. Sad

Lets not bash them yet, NBA teams don't really use this and maybe they fixed defense in another aspect.

[NYCDaFutureisBack]

Re: NBA 2K15: Tweet From Scott O'Gallagher Claims 1-3-1 and Charge Cheese Eliminated

Daczar and Ogsports said that the defense recovery will be better I think earlier. If im not mistaken. I belive them so lets just see for ourselves when it comes out. 1-3-1 no one uses in the NBA so im glad its finally out.. OnlineNation and SimNation All Day

[BlackSheep2910]

Re: NBA 2K15: Tweet From Scott O'Gallagher Claims 1-3-1 and Charge Cheese Elminated

A bit concerned about the 1-3-1 being completely removed. Makes me wonder if they fixed the problems that made it cheesey. Animations/footwork.

2K OBVIOUSLY didn't fix the actual GAMEPLAY issues. I am definitely going with NBA Live this yr. I can't play a basketball game with super flawed spacing. 2K's gameplay has been broken for YEARS. The canimations and sluggish movement is so frustrating. And this lazy band aid fix is a testimony to the continued horrendous NON-SIM gameplay.

[videlsports]

Im happy the Charge Cheese is Gone, Online people take more charges than a Credit Card in2k14, Im glad it's tuned down, as far as the 1-3-1 Im fine with it being Gone, I just hope spacing and recovery is Tuned, no quick recovery to an open J.

[SPRINGS03]

Re: NBA 2K15: Tweet From Scott O'Gallagher Claims 1-3-1 and Charge Cheese Eliminated

Hey, that's good. These things shouldn't of been happening in the first place, but at least they finally got addressed, but IMO there are much bigger issues that need to be addressed. Passing, rebounding, shot block cheese(introduced this year where a player blocks a shot and the player who's shot is blocked always recovers the ball, or the ball always goes directly to them, while the defender stumbles all over like some kind of drunken idiot).

[Kaanyr Vhok]

Re: NBA 2K15: Tweet From Scott O'Gallagher Claims 1-3-1 and Charge Cheese Eliminated

I've always found that the CPU defenders don't play very good on-ball defense anyway. I usually play on-ball, and I'm always ready to quickly switch to a big whenever I see a pick and roll coming. Not only is it more effective (for me at least), but it's a lot more fun and engaging than just standing around away from the ball.

That being said, it would be ludicrous to force people to play one way or the other.

This and their offball defense is even worse.

[JerzeyReign]

Re: NBA 2K15: Tweet From Scott O'Gallagher Claims 1-3-1 and Charge Cheese Eliminated

Oh I don't know...how about people that just want to play for FUN and not to prove anything? pfft stick skills....really....

Honestly, if you want to play for FUN - play your friends or offline. Online is for competition gamers, not sim gamers hoping to find the most perfect basketball game known to man.

Can't fault online gamers for doing something that works - don't hate the player, hate the game.