I think I would have preferred a pass meter over a shooting meter.

[luda06]

Re: I think I would have preferred a pass meter over a shooting meter.

"No. And your game shouldn't have to be "Sim" or whatever else. There should be an underlying strategy that replicates the same logic real basketball teams use every game."

I'm not following your logic here. SIM is a "replication" of "real basketball teams" playing "real" basketball.

I'm saying you shouldn't have to declare your game is "sim". But you do. So, the base game itself is broken.

[ImaFreeThinker]

Re: I think I would have preferred a pass meter over a shooting meter.

Ahhh...I see what you're saying now.

[El_Poopador]

Re: I think I would have preferred a pass meter over a shooting meter.

I'm suggesting that more freedom is generally a bad thing for players to have, and ran down a brief list of what we've had, and what we've abused. The more freedom 2K gives us, just makes the game much more difficult to maintain, and actually focus on basic gameplay features such a competent A.I. to play against.

But simply being able to choose the type and speed of a pass is not something that can be abused. Choosing the type of pass wouldn't increase the passers rating, nor would it lower the defense's ability to deflect it. It simply means you choose to pass it that way, the same as if I choose to take a fadeaway to the right or to the left. I'm not sure how you're not understanding this.

[Sundown]

I think I would have preferred a pass meter over a shooting meter.

No. And your game shouldn't have to be "Sim" or whatever else. There should be an underlying strategy that replicates the same logic real basketball teams use every game.

However, that's not the case with NBA 2K. We'll find ways to abuse the passing system, just like we've abused the shooting mechanics, and almost every addition before it.

The abuses have a whole lot less to do with control mechanics than they do with a poor sim engine in certain areas, bad animations, lag, physics, AI, and inappropriate online difficulty settings.

Taking away user control won't fix most of that. It'll just be less input and more watching of these abuses happen before you.

Not to mention that pass abuses don't even headline the game's worst abuses. Except dump cheese and lob cheese-- both of which can be just as abused if the AI just picked what type of pass to pass, because at its core it's not a control issue. It's a pass simulation issue. And whatever logic you use to evaluate AI passes, you can leverage to determine success for manual passes, which 2K has been improving on WHILE ALSO increasing pass control, which runs counter to the claim that more control = unfixable cheese.

[Mr.Smif]

Re: I think I would have preferred a pass meter over a shooting meter.

A pass meter would be horrible in a basketball game.

[luda06]

Re: I think I would have preferred a pass meter over a shooting meter.

The abuses have a whole lot less to do with control mechanics than they do with a poor sim engine in certain areas, bad animations, lag, physics, AI, and inappropriate online difficulty settings.

Taking away user control won't fix most of that. It'll just be less input and more watching of these abuses happen before you.

No, less freedoms provide more security in exchange. For example, you can't abuse a shot release if there's more emphasis on shot quality (location and ratings). No more fantasy drafts where LeBron James and other players with funky releases get selected outside of where you'd expect them to be drafted.

I hate when players complain or take note of bricking a shot release with an A+ timing, almost downplaying or ignoring the other variables that may have affected the shot.

The same will happen with a suggested passing mechanic. Players will get upset when they screw up a pass in which they believe they had perfect timing on. Competitive gamers will find teams and players that can abuse or minimize the margins of error with each mechanic.

There's too much of an emphasis on the little things. Like worrying about a broken ladder on a building when none of the elevators work. Leave it to the A.I. to figure out.

[Sundown]

Re: I think I would have preferred a pass meter over a shooting meter.

No, less freedoms provide more security in exchange. For example, you can't abuse a shot release if there's more emphasis on shot quality (location and ratings). No more fantasy drafts where LeBron James and other players with funky releases get selected outside of where you'd expect them to be drafted.

I hate when players complain or take note of bricking a shot release with an A+ timing, almost downplaying or ignoring the other variables that may have affected the shot.

The same will happen with a suggested passing mechanic. Players will get upset when they screw up a pass in which they believe they had perfect timing on. Competitive gamers will find teams and players that can abuse or minimize the margins of error with each mechanic.

There's too much of an emphasis on the little things. Like worrying about a broken ladder on a building when none of the elevators work. Leave it to the A.I. to figure out.

As I've said, passing has gotten better and less abusable every year while also granting more control, so you claim doesn't really fly in that regard.

I agree that there should be no way to glitch shot timing for unrealistic results. There are ways to programmatically limit that quite easily. If perfect timing results in unrealistic shot percentages, then it's by design and not one I agree with. But it has nothing to do with the mere fact that it involves control.

For the record, I lean towards shot quality over timing precision, but I also don't think you should be able to put up any timing you want. Some semblance of decent timing should be important, as shot form and focus is important in actual basketball (as is the reality that defenses can make you rush your shot).

And I'll reiterate that bounce pass controls have done nothing to hurt the game while making it better as 2K's passing model has simultaneously gotten less cheesy.

[Vni]

Re: I think I would have preferred a pass meter over a shooting meter.

NBA 2K isn't close to be ready for competitive gaming though. You seem to not take too seriously what I say about carefully picking your opponent but it would fix most of your issues.

1-3-1 never was an issue to me.
Spin dunk never was an issue to me.
Up and under cheese never was an issue to me.
Overpowered teams never were an issue to me.
Any kind of exploits/abuse never were an issue to me.

I have cheese/exploits free nba 2K games because I choose who I play against and who I don't.

[raiderphantom]

Re: I think I would have preferred a pass meter over a shooting meter.

A passing meter seems tough to implement but I like the idea of a pressure sensitive pass button. NHL does that as well.

[luda06]

Re: I think I would have preferred a pass meter over a shooting meter.

NBA 2K isn't close to be ready for competitive gaming though. You seem to not take too seriously what I say about carefully picking your opponent but it would fix most of your issues.

1-3-1 never was an issue to me.
Spin dunk never was an issue to me.
Up and under cheese never was an issue to me.
Overpowered teams never were an issue to me.
Any kind of exploits/abuse never were an issue to me.

I have cheese/exploits free nba 2K games because I choose who I play against and who I don't.

I'm suggesting all gameplay mechanics and features should be constant in every game mode, regardless if someone chooses to play competitively or not. Offensive and defensive strategies shouldn't be so vastly different from one another in each environment. The A.I. should feel more competent on higher levels, not cheap, by their sudden mastery of such timings.

We should not be asking for more mechanics that would widen the divide between gameplay experiences.

[steelers99_58_36]

Re: I think I would have preferred a pass meter over a shooting meter.

I would like to see a button mapping option in 2K. I think it would be very useful, especially for people that don't do the flashy passes, for example or something like that that people feel is unnecessary for their style of play, they could remove it and it would speed up the delay because the game wouldn't wait to see if you're going to press another button or not.

[Kaanyr Vhok]

Re: I think I would have preferred a pass meter over a shooting meter.

I believe this is unnecessary. The right pass should always occur given the given situation. Users should be more concerned about the odds of a pass being successful due to what the defense is allowing. Not, whether they can squeeze a pass based on their mastery of a game-play mechanic. The last thing I want is for players to hone more useless skills instead of actually constructing a feasible offense to use.

If it wasnt for some of the new hires I would say you are relying on 2k's weakness in rating players. I would too just less so. This all comes down to how the developers tune the game.

I think the high risk passing is too easy while swing passes are too weak. Junior College teams pass the ball with more zip and assertion than NBA 2k player's until they are going for highlight passes and stuff in the paint.

In Fifa you control the zip but the game doesnt always pick the right player. Long passes and tight passes require more user skill. NBA 2k has icon passing. Passing to the wrong player is less of a problem but I sure would like for highlight passes to require more skill and to also control the zip.

[ImaFreeThinker]

Re: I think I would have preferred a pass meter over a shooting meter.

"Junior College teams pass the ball with more zip and assertion than NBA 2k player's"....AND, it's just not how floaty the 2K passes are either...it's also the fact that you have a 1-2 second animation sometimes before the ball is even in the air on a pass. The overhead pass instead of the chest pass. Passing is so broken in 2K14...It really is.

And, why is icon passing SLOWER than the normal method? This makes no sense. Just because I can give a clear directive as to who I want to pass it to, 2K punishes me by making it slower and more prone to being picked off?..Really?

[El_Poopador]

Re: I think I would have preferred a pass meter over a shooting meter.

No, less freedoms provide more security in exchange. For example, you can't abuse a shot release if there's more emphasis on shot quality (location and ratings). No more fantasy drafts where LeBron James and other players with funky releases get selected outside of where you'd expect them to be drafted.

I hate when players complain or take note of bricking a shot release with an A+ timing, almost downplaying or ignoring the other variables that may have affected the shot.

The same will happen with a suggested passing mechanic. Players will get upset when they screw up a pass in which they believe they had perfect timing on. Competitive gamers will find teams and players that can abuse or minimize the margins of error with each mechanic.

There's too much of an emphasis on the little things. Like worrying about a broken ladder on a building when none of the elevators work. Leave it to the A.I. to figure out.

I think you're misunderstanding what we're asking for. The user input on the pass will in no way affect the success of the pass. The shot release timing directly affects the shot's success by giving a slight increase/decrease in the probability that it goes in. Being able to choose how I throw a pass will not change the passer's ratings; it will do nothing but change the trajectory/speed of the pass.

By your logic, we should also be arguing that we should remove the shot stick and isomotion. Just press a button to shoot, and let the AI choose the shot type. Press another button to do a dribble move, and let the AI decide which move is the best. Maybe we should just go back to the days of Atari, and have one button and a joystick. Press than button when we want a player to do something, and the AI will make the best decision for us.

[zdfbzfh]

Re: I think I would have preferred a pass meter over a shooting meter.

What would a pass meter actually measure? Isn't a pass something you should eyeball even more than a shot release?