MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

[redsox4evur]

Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

So the regression issue won't affect CPU generates draft classes that we edit post draft? Though not ideal, I think I can live with that for this year and hope 2k works on this for next years game.

It's not worth it. In order to have good-great classes it takes at least a week for the class to be good.

[ronyell]

Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

Nowhere did I insult you or disrespect you in any way. I simply provided a different perspective, but one that was in many ways aligned with what you guys want.

Do you realize that I put in the effort to analyze real life NBA regression in order to contribute positively to this discussion?

Sounds to me like you feel invalidated, or something. At least that's what I'm reading from your relationship analogy--that somebody is invalidating how upset you are.

I think it's great how much work you guys put into your custom rosters and draft classes. It was your draft classes that made 2k14 on X360 playable for me at all. I have no ill will nor disrespect to any of you guys, and I'm really surprised you seem to see things that way.

But you guys use a wholesale different approach to ratings than 2k15 does. It might not be realistic to expect them to craft a progression/regression system that can accommodate your work.

So what's the real issue here? That regression is unrealistic? That the current regression system makes your custom rosters/draft classes impossible to use in MyLeague? That you want greater control and customization over how regression works? Help me, and everyone else, understand.

i'll say this & then back out of the conversation of back & forths. i do not believe that you have ill intent nor are you being malicious BUT it IS insulting to tell the many people that are here that the issue that they see are not that serious & yes i feel the same... like our clear observations are attempting to be invalidated in the very thread that we are using as a platform. the REAL issue was posted in the OP & throughout the thread over & over but yet you continue to refute it with the results that YOU are seeing with default rosters. you have given good info & good discussion content but your content is not applicable to the majority of people who ARE seeing an issue here in this thread.

INFLATED RATINGS TO START OFF MASK THE REGRESSION ISSUE WITH DEFAULT ROSTERS SO YOU ARE NOT SEEING THE ISSUE. CUSTOM ROSTER USERS SHOULD BE ABLE TO ENJOY THE SAME QUALITY OF REGRESSION & PROGRESSION THAT WE HAVE FOR THE PAST FEW YEARS & ITERATIONS OF 2K. IT WAS NOT AN ISSUE BEFORE & YOU DID NOT SEE THREADS ABOUT IN YEARS PRIOR SO YES.. SOMETHING MUST BE DIFFERENT THIS YEAR & THERE IS AN ISSUE.

[BigT34]

Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

i'll say this & then back out of the conversation of back & forths. i do not believe that you have ill intent nor are you being malicious BUT it IS insulting to tell the many people that are here that the issue that they see are not that serious & yes i feel the same... like our clear observations are attempting to be invalidated in the very thread that we are using as a platform. the REAL issue was posted in the OP & throughout the thread over & over but yet you continue to refute it with the results that YOU are seeing with default rosters. you have given good info & good discussion content but your content is not applicable to the majority of people who ARE seeing an issue here in this thread.

INFLATED RATINGS TO START OFF MASK THE REGRESSION ISSUE WITH DEFAULT ROSTERS SO YOU ARE NOT SEEING THE ISSUE. CUSTOM ROSTER USERS SHOULD BE ABLE TO ENJOY THE SAME QUALITY OF REGRESSION & PROGRESSION THAT WE HAVE FOR THE PAST FEW YEARS & ITERATIONS OF 2K. IT WAS NOT AN ISSUE BEFORE & YOU DID NOT SEE THREADS ABOUT IN YEARS PRIOR SO YES.. SOMETHING MUST BE DIFFERENT THIS YEAR & THERE IS AN ISSUE.

You don't need to use all caps. It's actually harder to read.

I have repeatedly said that there IS an issue with regression. Why do you keep saying otherwise?

Nobody is invalidating you or being disrespectful toward you. On the contrary, people are engaging in respectful debate with you, which means that, by definition, they respect your opinion enough to engage with you.

Thank you for clarifying what it is that you guys are asking for. I hope that 2K provides it in coming years. However, your initial post in no way made it clear that the issue, in your mind, is that regression is broken for people who use custom rosters. Don't get upset because people understood this thread to be about regression in general within the game.

Other people enjoy this game differently than you. You can't expect us not to chime in with our opinions, too. This is a message board that is a public forum. There's nothing preventing us from posting on this thread, whether we disagree or agree.

[worstsportsgamer1977]

Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

does this mode even work. i tried to fire it up 2 times now and it freezes the game to the point where it wont shut off. anyone else go through this??

[Dreece]

Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

I have repeatedly said that there IS an issue with regression. Why do you keep saying otherwise?

Nobody is invalidating you or being disrespectful toward you. On the contrary, people are engaging in respectful debate with you, which means that, by definition, they respect your opinion enough to engage with you.

Thank you for clarifying what it is that you guys are asking for. I hope that 2K provides it in coming years.

Other people enjoy this game differently than you. You can't expect us not to chime in with our opinions, too. This is a message board that is a public forum. There's nothing preventing us from posting on this thread, whether we disagree or agree.

Ok I'm getting tired of this. We get it!!! Use 2k inflated ratings roster if you want to minimize the regression issue. OK guess what....its a LEGION of users on OS and around the world who use custom rosters because of the timeless effort and care that goes into those sets.

Guys like VT, Rondo, Nogster, Sim World, Beds, etc were able to put out rosters that you could be satisfied with starting an association with. 2k rosters SUCK!! Flat out! Inflated ratings, jacked up sigs, various tendencies are a TOTAL mess but we suppose to just use those because WHY?

AND PLEASE don't getting me started on those LAME generated classes! Since that IS my specialty I can voice my opinion loudly about this...they SUCK TOO. I spent countless hours just doing animations for our classes because its cool for a 5'11 pg to have the Marcus Camby jumpshot and every dunk package imaginable....RIGHT!

OBVIOUSLY our team and the other "HARDCORE" editors out there know that YOU can say what you want..this is jacked up and they definitely lost the trust from a big part of they fanbase.

[redsox4evur]

Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

I am going to provide an example of a player that is trash after 1 season in 2K this year. Kyle Korver. He is a great guy to have come off the bench and hit some 3's. So let's look at his 3PT FG% from his age 28 season until today.
28: 53.6% (career high)
29: 41.5%
30: 43.5%
31: 45.7%
32: 47.2% (3rd highest of his career)
33: 52.5% (currently the 2nd highest percentage of his career)

Just figured I would show you all that.

[BigT34]

Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

Ok I'm getting tired of this. We get it!!! Use 2k inflated ratings roster if you want to minimize the regression issue. OK guess what....its a LEGION of users on OS and around the world who use custom rosters because of the timeless effort and care that goes into those sets.

Guys like VT, Rondo, Nogster, Sim World, Beds, etc were able to put out rosters that you could be satisfied with starting an association with. 2k rosters SUCK!! Flat out! Inflated ratings, jacked up sigs, various tendencies are a TOTAL mess but we suppose to just use those because WHY?

AND PLEASE don't getting me started on those LAME generated classes! Since that IS my specialty I can voice my opinion loudly about this...they SUCK TOO. I spent countless hours just doing animations for our classes because its cool for a 5'11 pg to have the Marcus Camby jumpshot and every dunk package imaginable....RIGHT!

OBVIOUSLY our team and the other "HARDCORE" editors out there know that YOU can say what you want..this is jacked up and they definitely lost the trust from a big part of they fanbase.

It sounds like this whole experience has made you guys feel marginalized. I'm sorry you feel that way.

But why do you think I'm trying to minimize this issue? Provide a single quote for me that's minimizing it, please. I can assure you, I'm not minimizing it--in fact, I'm posting about it.

If you think this issue rates as a 10/10, and I think it rates as a 6/10, does that mean I'm minimizing it? Or is that just my opinion is different than yours? If so, perhaps you could tell me where I am and am not allowed to express that opinion.

Again, you guys do great work. I commend you. You made 2k14 playable for me. Thank you.

[BigT34]

Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

I am going to provide an example of a player that is trash after 1 season in 2K this year. Kyle Korver. He is a great guy to have come off the bench and hit some 3's. So let's look at his 3PT FG% from his age 28 season until today.
28: 53.6% (career high)
29: 41.5%
30: 43.5%
31: 45.7%
32: 47.2% (3rd highest of his career)
33: 52.5% (currently the 2nd highest percentage of his career)

Just figured I would show you all that.

That was adorably passive aggressive. Thank you.

Are you thinking that I don't know this? I have, in other posts on other threads, pointed out that some players continue to improve past age 30. A great example is Steve Nash, who continued to improve well into his 30s.

I have said, repeatedly, that I would love a progression/regression system that included many different aging curves for a variety of skills, such that it would be possible to have the rare player like Korver or Nash who actually gets BETTER with age and regresses later. It would be super cool for this to be editable, so the hardcore roster/draft class makers could tinker with it. It'd also be cool for there to be an element of randomness--for example a career ending injury shifts the curve to earlier regression, or a player landing with the right team/coach/organization/system shifts the curve to slower regression or even enables a late-career peak, a la Boris Diaw.

If you look at the average (emphasis on average) NBA aging curve, players peak at age 26. But obviously there's more to it than that--some guys peak earlier, some later, some have multiple peaks or have prolonged plateaus (think Tim Duncan). What would be amazing is if this could be modeled by 2k such that you can sometimes have a guy like Korver who is better at 33 than he is at 26. That isn't true of most players, but it's important that there are sometimes exceptions, as that makes the league a place with rich storylines.

All of this to say: I agree with you. I think you guys are using my posts as an outlet for your frustrating with 2KSports.

[BA2929]

Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

you can't compare apples & oranges... if you don't see the issue with defaults you can't tell the custom guys there is no issue simple & plain... it's a bit undermining to the objective of the thread & insulting to those who know what they are talking about & have tested OVER & OVER again.

I'd like to point out that nowhere in your opening post in this thread did you mention it was a custom roster issue and not a blanket issue with the regression altogether. I've been following along with this regression topic for weeks now and I didn't even know it had been narrowed down in scope to ONLY custom rosters. I have to assume many others are not aware of that either.

You might want to edit your opening post to note the fact that it is a CUSTOM roster issue and not a blanket issue with the mode altogether, if that in fact is the case. It might save you guys from copy/pasting your issues with regression over and over again to new guys who are just trying to help out or who are confused as to the point of of the thread.

[redsox4evur]

Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

I'd like to point out that nowhere in your opening post in this thread did you mention it was a custom roster issue and not a blanket issue with the regression altogether. I've been following along with this regression topic for weeks now and I didn't even know it had been narrowed down in scope to ONLY custom rosters. I have to assume many others are not aware of that either.

You might want to edit your opening post to note the fact that it is a CUSTOM roster issue and not a blanket issue with the mode altogether, if that in fact is the case.

The users of the default tend to not notice because of the inflated 2K ratings. It is a blanket issue, but the 2K roster users won't notice because of the inflated ratings of the 2K default rosters and the screwed up draft classes.

[BigT34]

Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

The users of the default tend to not notice because of the inflated 2K ratings. It is a blanket issue, but the 2K roster users won't notice because of the inflated ratings of the 2K default rosters and the screwed up draft classes.

Actually, I'm curious:

Why do people think NBA 2k15's ratings are inflated? Is the argument that players outperform their real life performances because their ratings are too high?

If so, is this based on testing with sample sizes large enough to be statistically significant? What kind of data do you use to determine that these ratings are inflated? Is it that guys shoot, say, 10% points higher than they should over a sample of 300+ in-game shots? Or that passing ratings are inflated because guys don't throw enough errant passes over a stretch of, say, 30-50 games? If so, what's your comparison to real life? Is there data on # of errant passes guys throw per game? That'd be really interesting, actually.

You guys have this really strongly held belief that 2K inflates ratings, which is kind of weird because it's a rating scale they themselves derived. So I'm trying to understand if that's because you think the ratings are inflated but the game engine itself works fine? Is it that the scale itself is fine, but it's improperly calibrated? Or is it something else?

[vtcrb]

Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

I think we can ALL Agree there is an ISSUE. Now it MAY effect Custom Rosters MORE than Default, but the issue is still there. No disrespect to BEDs, he works hard, but i have a different way i go with Editing.

Now alot comes down to how DEEP you dig in. I personally go thru EVERY Player on the game, as I know others do as well, not many but there are a FEW. And when I see ALL of my work go to CRAP because of a BUG like this it annoys the heck out of Me. I have been Editing for YEARS and this has NOT existed before.

The Potential Attribute could help Editors(in previous 2ks) with Older Players, but it is USELESS this year after a Certain Age. It has to be something OFF in the Coding for POTENTIAL to have no effect. Hopefully this gets addressed.

[vtcrb]

Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

Actually, I'm curious:

Why do people think NBA 2k15's ratings are inflated? Is the argument that players outperform their real life performances because their ratings are too high?

If so, is this based on testing with sample sizes large enough to be statistically significant? What kind of data do you use to determine that these ratings are inflated? Is it that guys shoot, say, 10% points higher than they should over a sample of 300+ in-game shots? Or that passing ratings are inflated because guys don't throw enough errant passes over a stretch of, say, 30-50 games? If so, what's your comparison to real life? Is there data on # of errant passes guys throw per game? That'd be really interesting, actually.

You guys have this really strongly held belief that 2K inflates ratings, which is kind of weird because it's a rating scale they themselves derived. So I'm trying to understand if that's because you think the ratings are inflated but the game engine itself works fine? Is it that the scale itself is fine, but it's improperly calibrated? Or is it something else?

Gonna keep this simple because i am not bashing anyone, But their are ALOT of Generic Ratings/Tendencies in NON-Custom Roster. Simple as that.

[LorenzoDC]

Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

I think we can ALL Agree there is an ISSUE. Now it MAY effect Custom Rosters MORE than Default, but the issue is still there. No disrespect to BEDs, he works hard, but i have a different way i go with Editing.

Now alot comes down to how DEEP you dig in. I personally go thru EVERY Player on the game, as I know others do as well, not many but there are a FEW. And when I see ALL of my work go to CRAP because of a BUG like this it annoys the heck out of Me. I have been Editing for YEARS and this has NOT existed before.

The Potential Attribute could help Editors(in previous 2ks) with Older Players, but it is USELESS this year after a Certain Age. It has to be something OFF in the Coding for POTENTIAL to have no effect. Hopefully this gets addressed.

From what I can tell, the only reason it seems to affect custom rosters more than default is because many of the default stars have been hand created to such a degree that their regression curves are also customized under the hood. But once you get to players who are not created with that level of individual detail by the devs, through a kind of template player creater, or CPU created players, or players created through custom rosters. . . then those special, hidden regression curves are absent.

So, with default rosters, once those special, current, real life stars age out, the MyGM and MyLeague modes are filled with players, however created, who regress early in their career. CPU teams will sign very good 28 year old players to free agent contracts and by the second year of those contracts the players will be worthy of bench roles only. And then the teams are stuck with the contracts, killing their rosters, unless you edit the ratings or the contracts or both.

[xcfggh]

Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

I agree as well and my decision on whether or not to purchase the game may hinge on whether this issue will be addressed.