MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

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  • ronyell
    SimWorld Sports Inc - CEO
    • Dec 2005
    • 5932

    #106
    Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

    Originally posted by BigT34
    I totally support any efforts to make this game better.

    I do NOT thing the progression/regression system is as good as it could be--I have plenty of ideas about how to make it better.

    I just think some of us are seeing things differently--for example in my current MyLeague, there's ~30 players who are 31 years old. That's actually more than are in the NBA this year. There's a 34 year old SG who is 90 OVR. He plateaued around 95-97 for about 6 years before starting to really regress at 32, the 2nd-rated SF is a 32 year old who's 86 OVR (down from a peak of 95, but so what? he's 32 now--that's a reasonable regression), and the #2 OVR PF is 94 OVR and 31 years old. The league's best PG dropped from 93 to 87 from age 28 to 29 because he tore his achilles and lost a ton of speed/quickness. I'm intrigued to see if he actually regains some of that this off-season--he may.

    There are guys in their 30s who are mid-70s and very viable role players--I just signed a 34 (or 32, can't recall) year old James Young to a one-year deal to provide scoring off the bench--he's 75 OVR and very effective.

    None of this screams horribly broken to me. Could it be better? Sure. It does seem like there's a more rapid regression with default rosters compared to CPU generated draft picks, and that certainly could be fixed.
    So again you MUST be using an official roster or one that begins with a higher OVR starting scale right? AND that 75 rated viable role playing SG was signed by you & not the CPU correct? because with the ratings starting on the higher end & a player being the age that he is at a 75 rating without the league being scaled the CPU WILL NOT sign that guy thus making him out of the league unless you sign him yourself. not attack but just pointing out the issue... the higher starting ratings impact CPU decisions negatively down the road but cause less of an issue with regression... fair trade off?
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    • BigT34
      Rookie
      • Jun 2003
      • 330

      #107
      Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

      Originally posted by ronyell
      So again you MUST be using an official roster or one that begins with a higher OVR starting scale right? AND that 75 rated viable role playing SG was signed by you & not the CPU correct? because with the ratings starting on the higher end & a player being the age that he is at a 75 rating without the league being scaled the CPU WILL NOT sign that guy thus making him out of the league unless you sign him yourself. not attack but just pointing out the issue... the higher starting ratings impact CPU decisions negatively down the road but cause less of an issue with regression... fair trade off?
      I mean, are you asking for a progression/regression system that automatically accomodates the kind of roster you want to create?

      If 2Ksports designs a rating system that works in one way, and you want to drastically change the scales in terms of player OVR and league landscape, that's fine, but do you think it's realistic for them to code a progression/regression system that adjusts to that? Does that not seem very, very difficult to code?

      Perhaps the solution is customization with more sliders, but what would that look like?

      I'm genuinely curious--you guys seem to think this is a huge issue, so what would it look like if it were fixed?

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      • ronyell
        SimWorld Sports Inc - CEO
        • Dec 2005
        • 5932

        #108
        Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

        Originally posted by BigT34
        I mean, are you asking for a progression/regression system that automatically accomodates the kind of roster you want to create?

        If 2Ksports designs a rating system that works in one way, and you want to drastically change the scales in terms of player OVR and league landscape, that's fine, but do you think it's realistic for them to code a progression/regression system that adjusts to that? Does that not seem very, very difficult to code?

        Perhaps the solution is customization with more sliders, but what would that look like?

        I'm genuinely curious--you guys seem to think this is a huge issue, so what would it look like if it were fixed?
        there is nothing to drastically change from previous iterations. progression & regression were coded to AMOUNTS regardless of the rating... not to overalls which allowed it to translate to ANY roster AS IT SHOULD.
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        • annan
          Banned
          • Feb 2004
          • 355

          #109
          Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

          Originally posted by ronyell
          there is nothing to drastically change from previous iterations. progression & regression were coded to AMOUNTS regardless of the rating... not to overalls which allowed it to translate to ANY roster AS IT SHOULD.
          Is it confirmed that default rosters don't have the regression issue, at least not as bad? What about draft classes? If we use default draft classes can we avoid some of the extremes of the regression issue?

          Comment

          • redsox4evur
            Hall Of Fame
            • Jul 2013
            • 18169

            #110
            Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

            Originally posted by annan
            Is it confirmed that default rosters don't have the regression issue, at least not as bad? What about draft classes? If we use default draft classes can we avoid some of the extremes of the regression issue?
            Yea most likely for the first round guys depending on the draft class quality slider.
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            • BigT34
              Rookie
              • Jun 2003
              • 330

              #111
              Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

              Originally posted by annan
              Is it confirmed that default rosters don't have the regression issue, at least not as bad? What about draft classes? If we use default draft classes can we avoid some of the extremes of the regression issue?
              Based on my experience, it does seem that CPU-generated draft classes produce players who have a very nice variability in how they regress.

              I've seen guys not even start to regress until age 32, and I've also seen guys regress starting at age 27 or so. It's a nice balance--injuries seem to have a lot to do with it, and perhaps CPU training settings as well.

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              • Painkiller1974
                Pro
                • Jan 2011
                • 510

                #112
                Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

                Originally posted by redsox4evur
                Yea most likely for the first round guys depending on the draft class quality slider.
                Who do you suggest to set the draft class quality slider ?
                Many thanks

                Comment

                • redsox4evur
                  Hall Of Fame
                  • Jul 2013
                  • 18169

                  #113
                  Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

                  Originally posted by Painkiller1974
                  Who do you suggest to set the draft class quality slider ?
                  Many thanks
                  IDK, I use SimWorld's roster and their classes so. Because 2K's generated classes suck. The tendencies don't match up with ratings. For example there could a center that is nasty in the post but due to his tendencies he is jacking up 3's all game. And his 3PT rating is 25. So there is stupid crap like that in them.
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                  • BluFu
                    MVP
                    • May 2012
                    • 3596

                    #114
                    Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

                    Originally posted by redsox4evur
                    IDK, I use SimWorld's roster and their classes so. Because 2K's generated classes suck. The tendencies don't match up with ratings. For example there could a center that is nasty in the post but due to his tendencies he is jacking up 3's all game. And his 3PT rating is 25. So there is stupid crap like that in them.
                    been a problem every single year... smh

                    Comment

                    • redsox4evur
                      Hall Of Fame
                      • Jul 2013
                      • 18169

                      #115
                      Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

                      Originally posted by BluFu
                      been a problem every single year... smh
                      Yep seriously Dreece, Sapp and Blindside need to apply for a job at 2K.
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                      • BigT34
                        Rookie
                        • Jun 2003
                        • 330

                        #116
                        Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

                        Currently at year 2028 in MyLeague.

                        Here's the age breakdown, out of 575 possible players (including free agents)

                        39: 1 (Kevin Durant, 69 OVR and a free agent)
                        38: 0
                        37: 0
                        36: 2 (2 on roster: Corey Joseph and Brandon Knight, both in the 70-73 range)
                        35: 1 (0 on roster)
                        34: 11 (6 on rosters)
                        33: 22 (15 on rosters)
                        32: 30 (21 on rosters)
                        31: 34 (23 on rosters)
                        30: 15 (13 on rosters)

                        That totals to 21.8%, which is right in line with current numbers. 80 of the are on rosters. If we assume 30 teams and 15 players per team, we get 80/450, which is 17.7%, a little low but not horrible. It does start to get thin past age 34, but I'll post next year when I get to that point simulating.

                        Some players of note:

                        34 year olds: Bradley Beal is 72 OVR, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist is 66. Andre Drummond is 71 OVR. The two best players are CPU-generated: an 81 OVR SG and a 90 OVR SG

                        33 year olds: Marcus Smart 74 OVR, Julius Randle 77 OVR, 8 CPU generated players are 70 OVR or higher

                        32 year olds: 12 CPU players over 70 OVR. Guys like Vonley, Gordon, and Wiggins are still useful. The 2nd best SF in the league is CPU-generated and 87 OVR.

                        31 year olds: Many guys in the 70s, and a 93 OVR power forward.

                        It does seem that CPU-generated players regress a little slower, but some of them can rapidly regress. There is variation, which is really cool. There's two guys in the 33 year old group who both peaked at 87 OVR--one is now 72 OVR and the other 79 OVR.

                        I leave it up to the community to decide whether this is realistic, but at least we can compare to real life and judge if this is a game-breaking issue

                        Comment

                        • vtcrb
                          Hall Of Fame
                          • Nov 2006
                          • 10295

                          #117
                          Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

                          Originally posted by BigT34
                          Currently at year 2028 in MyLeague.

                          Here's the age breakdown, out of 575 possible players (including free agents)

                          39: 1 (Kevin Durant, 69 OVR and a free agent)
                          38: 0
                          37: 0
                          36: 2 (2 on roster: Corey Joseph and Brandon Knight, both in the 70-73 range)
                          35: 1 (0 on roster)
                          34: 11 (6 on rosters)
                          33: 22 (15 on rosters)
                          32: 30 (21 on rosters)
                          31: 34 (23 on rosters)
                          30: 15 (13 on rosters)

                          That totals to 21.8%, which is right in line with current numbers. 80 of the are on rosters. If we assume 30 teams and 15 players per team, we get 80/450, which is 17.7%, a little low but not horrible. It does start to get thin past age 34, but I'll post next year when I get to that point simulating.

                          Some players of note:

                          34 year olds: Bradley Beal is 72 OVR, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist is 66. Andre Drummond is 71 OVR. The two best players are CPU-generated: an 81 OVR SG and a 90 OVR SG

                          33 year olds: Marcus Smart 74 OVR, Julius Randle 77 OVR, 8 CPU generated players are 70 OVR or higher

                          32 year olds: 12 CPU players over 70 OVR. Guys like Vonley, Gordon, and Wiggins are still useful. The 2nd best SF in the league is CPU-generated and 87 OVR.

                          31 year olds: Many guys in the 70s, and a 93 OVR power forward.

                          It does seem that CPU-generated players regress a little slower, but some of them can rapidly regress. There is variation, which is really cool. There's two guys in the 33 year old group who both peaked at 87 OVR--one is now 72 OVR and the other 79 OVR.

                          I leave it up to the community to decide whether this is realistic, but at least we can compare to real life and judge if this is a game-breaking issue
                          USING the 2k Generated Draft Classes as a Basis for anything will get you Skewed Numbers, as they are SO far out there.

                          Anyway it is OBVIOUS that REGRESSION is Not an issue, which is GREAT for YOU. Ronyell made the thread to bring light to issues that are bothering alot of guys.

                          If you think it is Working fine, MAKE a NEW Thread showing all of the Test Results that make the Regression issue a NON-Factor in your eyes. Not trying to be disrespectful, but it seems you are happy with the way the system is.
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                          • BigT34
                            Rookie
                            • Jun 2003
                            • 330

                            #118
                            Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

                            Why do I have to make a new thread? There's already two about this topic. We don't need a third.

                            First off, I'm bringing relevant data to the discussion. I've provided multiple links to studies about NBA aging curves and I even looked at real life regression.

                            Secondly, some of us have slightly different opinions than you guys. I happen to think things work somewhat well but definitely have flaws. I find the game playable but welcome improvements and I really think it's great the effort you guys put into it.

                            But I'm having a hard time understanding the way you guys have responded here on this thread. Is this not a place for debate and discussion? Or do you just want a thread where everyone agrees with you?

                            Comment

                            • dickey1331
                              Everyday is Faceurary!
                              • Sep 2009
                              • 14285

                              #119
                              Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

                              Originally posted by vtcrb
                              USING the 2k Generated Draft Classes as a Basis for anything will get you Skewed Numbers, as they are SO far out there.

                              Anyway it is OBVIOUS that REGRESSION is Not an issue, which is GREAT for YOU. Ronyell made the thread to bring light to issues that are bothering alot of guys.

                              If you think it is Working fine, MAKE a NEW Thread showing all of the Test Results that make the Regression issue a NON-Factor in your eyes. Not trying to be disrespectful, but it seems you are happy with the way the system is.

                              Everything he said was relevant. This is supposed to be a discussion about regression.
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                              • redsox4evur
                                Hall Of Fame
                                • Jul 2013
                                • 18169

                                #120
                                Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

                                Originally posted by dickey1331
                                Everything he said was relevant. This is supposed to be a discussion about regression.
                                This thread is about the regression issue, not regression in general. And that user doesn't think the issue exists at all.
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