MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

[vtcrb]

Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

Why do I have to make a new thread? There's already two about this topic. We don't need a third.

First off, I'm bringing relevant data to the discussion. I've provided multiple links to studies about NBA aging curves and I even looked at real life regression.

Secondly, some of us have slightly different opinions than you guys. I happen to think things work somewhat well but definitely have flaws. I find the game playable but welcome improvements and I really think it's great the effort you guys put into it.

But I'm having a hard time understanding the way you guys have responded here on this thread. Is this not a place for debate and discussion? Or do you just want a thread where everyone agrees with you?

This will be my final post on the issue. When POTENTIAL rating has ZERO effect on a player once they reach a certain point in their Career, Something is WRONG with the game. If a Player can STILL play at an ELITE Level at age 31, then i should be able to set his Potential to make that Possible.

As was stated earlier this thread was made to Bring to light something was wrong with the Potential/Regression system. If you dont see an issue with it Dont post here. Now I had a thread(as mentioned) for Testing Results on MYLeague Regression, that is best spot to post the Data. As the OP has tried to make clear this is Like a PETITION thread of sorts. So if you dont agree the REGRESSION issue is a MAJOR problem, then you should probably post in the OTHER thread.

[euphonious]

Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

There has been good discussion and the debate on this issue from us end users (2k where are you?). It is obvious we are first and foremost fans of the NBA and want to interpret that over to our gaming experience.

I would definitely class myself as a casual gamer as family and work don't allow me to play more. I respect the Sim World guy's and VTCRB as they most likely have the same life commitments but always release quality, detailed work.

I do find BigT34's findings interesting regarding 2k CPU generated rosters and drafts but my preference is to use edited work (I use SimWorld) because of the more detailed ratings and tendencies for individuals.
I know the 2k devs do frequent these threads (pre-release and early post-release was fantastic), and I know they would have policies in place for all the devs regarding random forum feedback (I'm sure OS provides a strong legit feedback source).

Can someone at 2k PLEASE give us some guidance on this issue, even to direct us through proper channels via the 2k forums if need be. Since the Patch #3 non-release the silence has been deafening and it hurts to say as a self confessed NBA 2k fanboy DISAPPOINTING.

[xzghn]

Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

I agree as well and my decision on whether or not to purchase the game may hinge on whether this issue will be addressed.

[BigT34]

Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

This thread is about the regression issue, not regression in general. And that user doesn't think the issue exists at all.

Where did I ever say that this issue doesn't exist at all?

I've said several times that I DO think it's an issue to improve, just not a game breaking one. Perhaps you've misunderstood my posts?

I posted what I did about real life player ages and CPU generated player regression in the hopes of furthering the work to understand where the issue actually lies. Maybe it didn't come across that way.

In general I think people need to take a step back and relax. This is becoming way too dramatic, and I certainly never meant to offend anyone.

[xcbcgh]

Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

I agree as well and my decision on whether or not to purchase the game may hinge on whether this issue will be addressed.

[BA2929]

Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

This thread is about the regression issue, not regression in general. And that user doesn't think the issue exists at all.

When did OS become a place where people couldn't give valid opposite viewpoints on a subject in a thread? He's not trolling. He's giving solid reasoning, and proof, as to why the issue might not be as bad as some are saying. Honestly, if someone can find a way where this isn't a huge issue (official 2k rosters?), maybe some people will finally purchase the game (those who have been avoiding it due to these very threads) and really enjoy it.

[BigT34]

Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

This thread is about the regression issue, not regression in general. And that user doesn't think the issue exists at all.

I'm going to respond a second time, because your post is really confusing.

The entire point of the "regression issue" is that people feel it's so unrealistic that it renders MyLeague unplayable. So, an obvious question to most any reasonable person would be: "what does regression in real life look like, and how closely does 2k15 approximate that?"

That's why I posted information about regression in general. Once we know what realistic regression looks like, we can start to identify the ways in which this game falls short of approximating them, and perhaps that can be of use to 2k as they remedy it.

For example, the issue seems to be more drastic in the way that it affects pre-existing players rather than ones generated in CPU draft classes. I get that some people think those classes are terrible, but at least we know that there's SOMETHING different about those players which makes their regression a little more realistic.

If the idea being espoused here is that we want a MyLeague experience that's as realistic as possible, how is "regression in general" NOT part of this discussion?

[BigT34]

Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

This will be my final post on the issue. When POTENTIAL rating has ZERO effect on a player once they reach a certain point in their Career, Something is WRONG with the game. If a Player can STILL play at an ELITE Level at age 31, then i should be able to set his Potential to make that Possible.

As was stated earlier this thread was made to Bring to light something was wrong with the Potential/Regression system. If you dont see an issue with it Dont post here. Now I had a thread(as mentioned) for Testing Results on MYLeague Regression, that is best spot to post the Data. As the OP has tried to make clear this is Like a PETITION thread of sorts. So if you dont agree the REGRESSION issue is a MAJOR problem, then you should probably post in the OTHER thread.

Looks to me like you're saying, "I'm taking my ball and going home!" and storming off. I'll point out that several people on this thread posted, BEFORE I did, that they weren't having the same issues or that they saw the issue differently.

Is your issue here that I should have posted my data in the other thread? Because I'm happy to do so.

Are you angry because you feel like I'm undermining your efforts to get this issue addressed? Because I can assure you, we both want the same thing--a MyLeague experience that's as realistic and fun as possible. I'm bringing MORE data to the discussion, which should help your case.

[ronyell]

Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

When did OS become a place where people couldn't give valid opposite viewpoints on a subject in a thread? He's not trolling. He's giving solid reasoning, and proof, as to why the issue might not be as bad as some are saying. Honestly, if someone can find a way where this isn't a huge issue (official 2k rosters?), maybe some people will finally purchase the game (those who have been avoiding it due to these very threads) and really enjoy it.

one has to expect a strong response when you come into thread where there are MANY knowledgeable people stating that there is an issue with something when utilizing the resources that are at their disposal then have someone else that is NOT using that same criteria (custom roster) tell you that your complaints & concerns are not as big a deal as you're making it.

i'm sure many would get upset if they had a legitimate issue with their girl & their girl told them that they were overreacting & it wasn't that big of a deal to her so it shouldn't be that big of a deal to you.

just because regression is not as much of an issue to someone who does not use custom rosters does not allow them to tell someone who DOES (because the option was put in the game & should work just as well as the official rosters in terms of regression) that their grievance is not warranted & then go on to petition over & over about how it isn't an issue in a thread that petitions that it IS to everyone that has posted here and/or uses custom rosters.

you can't compare apples & oranges... if you don't see the issue with defaults you can't tell the custom guys there is no issue simple & plain... it's a bit undermining to the objective of the thread & insulting to those who know what they are talking about & have tested OVER & OVER again.

[redsox4evur]

Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

I'm going to respond a second time, because your post is really confusing.

The entire point of the "regression issue" is that people feel it's so unrealistic that it renders MyLeague unplayable. So, an obvious question to most any reasonable person would be: "what does regression in real life look like, and how closely does 2k15 approximate that?"

That's why I posted information about regression in general. Once we know what realistic regression looks like, we can start to identify the ways in which this game falls short of approximating them, and perhaps that can be of use to 2k as they remedy it.

For example, the issue seems to be more drastic in the way that it affects pre-existing players rather than ones generated in CPU draft classes. I get that some people think those classes are terrible, but at least we know that there's SOMETHING different about those players which makes their regression a little more realistic.

If the idea being espoused here is that we want a MyLeague experience that's as realistic as possible, how is "regression in general" NOT part of this discussion?

Yea that's true, I wasn't thinking. But the thing that is different with those classes is that the ratings downright suck. There has never been a rookie that came into the league and in his first season average 25 pts 5 rebs 6 asts per game. Which are the stats that come with these generated classes. You have guys in their rookie years putting up better numbers than Lebron and Durant. Please tell me the last time a rookie has won the MVP or lead the league in scoring. Because it never happens.

[BigT34]

Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

one has to expect a strong response when you come into thread where there are MANY knowledgeable people stating that there is an issue with something when utilizing the resources that are at their disposal then have someone else that is NOT using that same criteria (custom roster) tell you that your complaints & concerns are not as big a deal as you're making it.

i'm sure many would get upset if they had a legitimate issue with their girl & their girl told them that they were overreacting & it wasn't that big of a deal to her so it shouldn't be that big of a deal to you.

just because regression is not as much of an issue to someone who does not use custom rosters does not allow them to tell someone who DOES (because the option was put in the game & should work just as well as the official rosters in terms of regression) that their grievance is not warranted & then go on to petition over & over about how it isn't an issue in a thread that petitions that it IS to everyone that has posted here and/or uses custom rosters.

you can't compare apples & oranges... if you don't see the issue with defaults you can't tell the custom guys there is no issue simple & plain... it's a bit undermining to the objective of the thread & insulting to those who know what they are talking about & have tested OVER & OVER again.

Nowhere did I insult you or disrespect you in any way. I simply provided a different perspective, but one that was in many ways aligned with what you guys want.

Do you realize that I put in the effort to analyze real life NBA regression in order to contribute positively to this discussion?

Sounds to me like you feel invalidated, or something. At least that's what I'm reading from your relationship analogy--that somebody is invalidating how upset you are.

I think it's great how much work you guys put into your custom rosters and draft classes. It was your draft classes that made 2k14 on X360 playable for me at all. I have no ill will nor disrespect to any of you guys, and I'm really surprised you seem to see things that way.

But you guys use a wholesale different approach to ratings than 2k15 does. It might not be realistic to expect them to craft a progression/regression system that can accommodate your work.

So what's the real issue here? That regression is unrealistic? That the current regression system makes your custom rosters/draft classes impossible to use in MyLeague? That you want greater control and customization over how regression works? Help me, and everyone else, understand.

[BigT34]

Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

Yea that's true, I wasn't thinking. But the thing that is different with those classes is that the ratings downright suck. There has never been a rookie that came into the league and in his first season average 25 pts 5 rebs 6 asts per game. Which are the stats that come with these generated classes. You have guys in their rookie years putting up better numbers than Lebron and Durant. Please tell me the last time a rookie has won the MVP or lead the league in scoring. Because it never happens.

First off, that's a separate issue, how accurate CPU draft classes are. What's relevant is there's something different about those players such that they regress differently.

Secondly, with class quality sliders set to 50, I've NEVER seen a guy come in and do what you're describing. I've never seen a rookie win MVP or lead the league in scoring in the 13 MyLeague years I've simmed.

To be clear, auto-generated drafts need a lot of work. There is a frustrating lack of big men who can shoot from outside (i have to work around this via post-draft editing), certain tendencies don't necessarily make sense, and sometimes guys end up with really, really ridiculous shot animations. But that's a separate discussion.

[redsox4evur]

Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

First off, that's a separate issue, how accurate CPU draft classes are. What's relevant is there's something different about those players such that they regress differently.

Secondly, with class quality sliders set to 50, I've NEVER seen a guy come in and do what you're describing. I've never seen a rookie win MVP or lead the league in scoring in the 13 MyLeague years I've simmed.

To be clear, auto-generated drafts need a lot of work. There is a frustrating lack of big men who can shoot from outside (i have to work around this via post-draft editing), certain tendencies don't necessarily make sense, and sometimes guys end up with really, really ridiculous shot animations. But that's a separate discussion.

How is that a separate issue? If the player has huge ratings when being drafted they will have higher ratings through their career. Which would result in what looks like smaller/slower regression.

[madmax52277]

Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

This regressing thing is a huge problem for roster makers..myleague slider's adjustments. most of us use custom roster to get a better game play out of the game. the way how the system works, it's not roster makers friendly.

You're not regressing because of the age of 28..its more to the story. most 28-30 reach there skill set are most of there knowledge of the game. so if you edit the roster and want to keep it low rating...you have to give them a couple of 90+ skills ratings, and keep your eyes on the overall so it want be to high.

The player's regress because of injury problems and how they do yearly in season's. so my point is if you give the 28-30 low skill set they will have bad season's and will not play well and will regress. find the strength of the 28-30 player's and give them like a 95 IQ..99 defense consistent..96 help defense etc. keep them from regressing by making them have a solid year.

I always use custom rosters so I understand for the hard working roster marker to meet this problem that kills the game.

[annan]

Re: MyLeague Regression - (Because the issue should not be forgotten)

First off, that's a separate issue, how accurate CPU draft classes are. What's relevant is there's something different about those players such that they regress differently.

Secondly, with class quality sliders set to 50, I've NEVER seen a guy come in and do what you're describing. I've never seen a rookie win MVP or lead the league in scoring in the 13 MyLeague years I've simmed.

To be clear, auto-generated drafts need a lot of work. There is a frustrating lack of big men who can shoot from outside (i have to work around this via post-draft editing), certain tendencies don't necessarily make sense, and sometimes guys end up with really, really ridiculous shot animations. But that's a separate discussion.

So the regression issue won't affect CPU generates draft classes that we edit post draft? Though not ideal, I think I can live with that for this year and hope 2k works on this for next years game.