Why is it "okay" to cheat?

[HowDareI]

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

To me that's not a valid point, you cant simply ban someone for not doing anything wrong. That's how they enjoy playing the game. Some people enjoy playing a certain way i.e. Sim style, Some people likes playing sim but also like to cheese. Some people enjoy cheesing out of their minds and they dislike playing Sim. Should they get banned for cheesing? No. But like i said earlier people who double dribble frequently should be isssued a temporary ban.

Alright we'll just play people online abusing the cheese over and over then, don't ever complain about it on here or I'll call you out on it.

What is "cheese"? Unfair tactics? What is exploiting? Taking an unfair approach to something...so if you wanna be so specific cheesing is abusing exploits....so it comes full circle.

If something is cheese, and you don't think they should be punished for it, then you just can't call it cheese anymore.

[RodionMaZ]

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

I think another approach to resolve the issue is to utilize gamestyle option.
If mine is set to "Simulation" then matchmaking will find opponents choose it, too. If someone is okay to play sim and doesn't mind to outcheese the cheesers, then he may choose "default" to get random-style opponents.

This way, 2K may only fix cheese tactics (like disabling charge button in the paint) for sim-style only to not ruin the fun for adepts of arcade/street ball game.

[Andreas85]

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

Alright we'll just play people online abusing the cheese over and over then, don't ever complain about it on here or I'll call you out on it.

I don't complain about it anymore since i dont see it as a big problem because i've learned how easy it is to defend. It's still not exploiting.

What is "cheese"? Unfair tactics? What is exploiting? Taking an unfair approach to something...so if you wanna be so specific cheesing is abusing exploits....so it comes full circle.

Cheesing: Cheese is moves(sometimes cheap moves) thats easy to do and thats really effective but that can be stopped.

Exploiting: i.e. Driving baseline would be exploiting if it worked 100% every time 100/100 times even if there was 5 defenders in the way. In other words things that cant be stopped. Duplicating VC etc. EDIT: There is of course alot of exploits who can be stopped, was just making an example that if driving baseline couldn't be stopped then it would be exploiting. But there is a difference between exploits and cheese.

One example would be like lets say for some reason the hop step move would go in 90% of the time no matter what dude you do it with or how many defenders you have contesting you, that would be considered exploiting.

This is what you dont seem to understand.

If something is cheese, and you don't think they should be punished for it, then you just can't call it cheese anymore.

People shouldn't be punished for cheese, they should be punished for exploits tho. I.e. double dribble, mycareer sliders 1min qtr glitch.

[HowDareI]

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

I don't complain about it anymore since i dont see it as a big problem because i've learned how easy it is to defend. It's still not exploiting.



Cheesing: Cheese is moves(sometimes cheap moves) thats easy to do and thats really effective but that can be stopped.

Exploiting: i.e. Driving baseline would be exploiting if it worked 100% every time 100/100 times even if there was 5 defenders in the way. In other words things that cant be stopped. Duplicating VC etc. EDIT: There is of course alot of exploits who can be stopped, was just making an example that if driving baseline couldn't be stopped then it would be exploiting. But there is a difference between exploits and cheese.

One example would be like lets say for some reason the hop step move would go in 90% of the time no matter what dude you do it with or how many defenders you have contesting you, that would be considered exploiting.

This is what you dont seem to understand.




People shouldn't be punished for cheese, they should be punished for exploits tho. I.e. double dribble, mycareer sliders 1min qtr glitch.

Those are glitches...mods, etc.

Cheese is an exploit, something not meant to be abused by a gamer but used in a way to gain an unfair advantage. It's something left in the game, probably unknown to the developer, and left to be taken advantage of by the user...it's not as bad as glitching/modding which is why it's not always an offense that gets punished.

2K definitely didn't intend for people to zig zag all game, that's not their vision. Yet people exploit the poor on ball defense (delay, lag, or just overpowered offensive movement) to be able to zig zag and hit shots. If you can call it cheese, you can consider it an exploit.

Just like last night I seen 1 person zig zagging and stepback 3'ing all game, while the other 2 sat in the paint setting screens to grab easy boards.
Is it glitching? No.
Is it modding? No.
Is it exploiting flaws in the game? Yes. Therefore exploiting...which brings me to my initial point:

If 2K isn't patching these things, because it's been said they probably aren't releasing anymore, then why is it out of the question to issue 24 hour bans to people abusing these things they've tried to patch out of the game before?
If you don't do it, you shouldn't be against it.
No one's getting banned for life. No one's getting their Xbox/PS4 taken away.
It's a 1 day suspension once they get caught exploiting, and it would escalate every time they get caught again.
It would clean up online, and not force 2K to patch the game again, and keep the game clean from these cheesers who take it too far.

I'm not saying do it to anyone who does it a few times a game, I'm talking about the people who approach online not intending on playing a fair game for even one possession. These guys are a complete joke and shouldn't be getting wins off of anyone.

[Andreas85]

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

Those are glitches...mods, etc.

Cheese is an exploit, something not meant to be abused by a gamer but used in a way to gain an unfair advantage. It's something left in the game, probably unknown to the developer, and left to be taken advantage of by the user...it's not as bad as glitching/modding which is why it's not always an offense that gets punished.

2K definitely didn't intend for people to zig zag all game, that's not their vision. Yet people exploit the poor on ball defense (delay, lag, or just overpowered offensive movement) to be able to zig zag and hit shots. If you can call it cheese, you can consider it an exploit.

Just like last night I seen 1 person zig zagging and stepback 3'ing all game, while the other 2 sat in the paint setting screens to grab easy boards.
Is it glitching? No.
Is it modding? No.
Is it exploiting flaws in the game? Yes. Therefore exploiting...which brings me to my initial point:

If 2K isn't patching these things, because it's been said they probably aren't releasing anymore, then why is it out of the question to issue 24 hour bans to people abusing these things they've tried to patch out of the game before?
If you don't do it, you shouldn't be against it.
No one's getting banned for life. No one's getting their Xbox/PS4 taken away.
It's a 1 day suspension once they get caught exploiting, and it would escalate every time they get caught again.
It would clean up online, and not force 2K to patch the game again, and keep the game clean from these cheesers who take it too far.

I'm not saying do it to anyone who does it a few times a game, I'm talking about the people who approach online not intending on playing a fair game for even one possession. These guys are a complete joke and shouldn't be getting wins off of anyone.

I give up, i can't reason with you anymore.

[HowDareI]

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

I give up, i can't reason with you anymore.

You're not reasoning, you took one side and argued it the whole time refusing to look at the other side. That's why you can't argue online; people go in to prove they're right, not to listen.

[Andreas85]

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

You're not reasoning, you took one side and argued it the whole time refusing to look at the other side. That's why you can't argue online; people go in to prove they're right, not to listen.

I didn't refuse to look at the other side, i looked at the other side and came to the conclusion that the other side is stupid in my opinion. And i still think im right.

[xfhsty]

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

It is cheating, it's using known exploits in the game to gain unfair advantages and win.

[Andreas85]

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

It is cheating, it's using known exploits in the game to gain unfair advantages and win.

wow, lmao.

In your logic people "cheat" in every game.

[13CB55]

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

I didn't refuse to look at the other side, i looked at the other side and came to the conclusion that the other side is stupid in my opinion. And i still think im right.

I think were you both guys arent on the same page is that you look at each "cheese" or "exploit" move one for one while HowDareI is judging teams using all of it at once.

As he and other guys stated earlier - yes you can defend/deal with all moves and if its just one guy doing it, its no a big deal.
Some moves are in this game, cause they are real moves but are (still) used in a way that is exploiting holes the game, nobody of the devs could haven known while testing.

You just have to look up NBA2k on twitch to know there is something really wrong. The top cheeser are even selling their infos on how to cheese for "donations".

2K has to react - the hesitation dribbles that are used for the easy step back 3 and fancy left-righting needs to go - as has the crossover dribble that makes your guys fly from left to right when dribbling stationary. Like behind the back #14 - easy fix on this part. Sure there will be again some new OP moves, but it would be a start. Or at least drain stamina from guys doing it. I mean really - seven times or more jumping from left to right? Cmon man.

Double Dribble and Paint Screening - well I think thats where we all agree anyways.

Now here is where HowDareI and you disagree.

You say all can be dealt with and its not exploiting, maybe cheesing but nobody should be banned for it - but if teams gameplan just around these moves - arent they all exploiting holes?

One Screener in the Paint - One who is setting a regular screen - and one who is doing stationary crossover #16 escape and or hesi #3 behind the screener.
Even if you defend it perfectly - once one of the defender gets sucked into the "running into the screen" animation its all about the shooter. So many badges come in play now to (more if he goes for the corner 3). And if the still misses - well there is the (often) easy rebound to do it all over again - and again - and sometimes even again. There is no way you miss 3 in a row. 2K wont let this happen at the park.

So, no we agree - what has the guy who sets the regular screen done to deserve a ban? or what has the crossover #16/hesi #3 done to get banned? Nothing! Thats basketball. Screen to get open, take the shot. All good.

But add in the paint screener and now you have a team that is exploiting systematically.
The whole gameplan never changes cause they know its so powerful.

You cant tell me that games like this are fun to you. Even if you win.

And now what are our options? Never thought about reporting someone earlier, cause it just didnt come to my mind and Im still not sure thats the way to go - but maybe this way 2k will take note - all the guys will be furious and send countless tweets to ronnie, ld2k or nba2k. Best way to make them aware of the big holes in this game.

My only hope for next years game is - the stage. The devs can see all whats wrong with this game 24/7.

[BellSKA]

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

I didn't refuse to look at the other side, i looked at the other side and came to the conclusion that the other side is stupid in my opinion. And i still think im right.

I am certainly not stoking these flames again. We are trying to point out general RULES put in place by the console OEM. We are trying to back up our opinions with what we feel are facts allowing us to have these opinions by the manufacturer's. When you use "...stupid in my option. And I still think I'm right." That provides NO factual evidence to help your case. I said I wasn't going to talk on your ABCD defense earlier, I will now. YOU made that list. You didn't procure that from any source but your own head. It's a very nice list and has wonderful facts. But it's a fact/ opinion based list.

Here, AGAIN, is what I am basing my issues with. I can't speak for the OP, but merely using their original thread to create my own thoughts...

This is from Xbox Live's Code of Conduct:

F. Cheating & Tampering

Do not cheat in a game unless the developer has deliberately enabled cheats.
Do not use unauthorized hardware or modifications.
Do not exploit game vulnerabilities or glitches.
Do not make unauthorized modifications to your account profile or its contents, including but not limited to tenure, Avatar, saved games, Gamerscore, or achievements.
Do not intentionally play with someone who is using unauthorized software or methods.
Do not play any illegitimately obtained software or pirated games.
Do not take any action to cause degradation of service for Microsoft or other users, including but not limited to network interference or manipulation.
Do not play a game before it has been authorized for play on the service.

[Qbeezy24]

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

Did you just say that buying vc is cheating?

Why won't it be. Im basically saying for things that you suppose to work for (mycareer) is basically saying I can buy myself good or to 99 or 89 what ever it is to top of on every game. First day I got to the park when the game came out I saw top ratings they didn't go through the season that fast. I just feel this era of game is money hungry. Just like dlc on release date.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N910A using Tapatalk 4

[Andreas85]

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

Double Dribble and Paint Screening - well I think thats where we all agree anyways.

Yes because they are real exploits.

Now here is where HowDareI and you disagree.

You say all can be dealt with and its not exploiting, maybe cheesing but nobody should be banned for it - but if teams gameplan just around these moves - arent they all exploiting holes?

One Screener in the Paint - One who is setting a regular screen - and one who is doing stationary crossover #16 escape and or hesi #3 behind the screener.
Even if you defend it perfectly - once one of the defender gets sucked into the "running into the screen" animation its all about the shooter. So many badges come in play now to (more if he goes for the corner 3). And if the still misses - well there is the (often) easy rebound to do it all over again - and again - and sometimes even again. There is no way you miss 3 in a row. 2K wont let this happen at the park.

So, no we agree - what has the guy who sets the regular screen done to deserve a ban? or what has the crossover #16/hesi #3 done to get banned? Nothing! Thats basketball. Screen to get open, take the shot. All good.

But add in the paint screener and now you have a team that is exploiting systematically.
The whole gameplan never changes cause they know its so powerful.

You cant tell me that games like this are fun to you. Even if you win.

"But add in the paint screener and now you have a team that is exploiting systematically. The whole gameplan never changes cause they know its so powerful"

First thing, the big dude screening in the paint, hes exploiting. The other dude's however even if they spam it 100 times per possession, they are still not exploiting. Unless i've missed something there is no rule from 2K specifically saying "You are supposed to make your play look as close to 100% sim basketball as you can" Now if that was the case, this debate would have been another story.

Ever heard of "Dominant strategy"? If you haven't, here is a small explanation: "If you find the best strategy to use then all other strategys becomes unrelevant, everyone have the opportunity to use that strategy, if they decide not to use it then it's their own fault"

Meaning i can play the way i want, as long as i dont cheat, glitch etc.

Do not exploit game vulnerabilities or glitches.

Explain this to me and then ill agree with you:

In what way am i exploiting game vulnerabilities or glitches by zig-zagging if you as a defender have all the means to play as good defense as you can? Would be something else if you couldn't stop it at all.

In what way am i exploiting game vulnerabilities or glitches by driving baseline if you as a defender have all the means to play as good defense as you can? 2K can easily remove those baseline animations. Would be something else if you couldn't stop it at all.

In what way am i exploiting game vulnerabilities or glitches by stepbacking into the corner if you have all the means to play as good defense as you can? Only annoying because 2K allows contested shots to go in at a way to high % and 2k themselves made that stepback. Would be something else if you couldn't stop it at all.

In what way am i exploiting game vulnerabilities or glitches by spamming dribbles when you have all the means to play as good defense as you can? Would be something else if you couldn't stop it at all

[nova91]

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

Yes because they are real exploits.




"But add in the paint screener and now you have a team that is exploiting systematically. The whole gameplan never changes cause they know its so powerful"

First thing, the big dude screening in the paint, hes exploiting. The other dude's however even if they spam it 100 times per possession, they are still not exploiting. Unless i've missed something there is no rule from 2K specifically saying "You are supposed to make your play look as close to 100% sim basketball as you can" Now if that was the case, this debate would have been another story.

Ever heard of "Dominant strategy"? If you haven't, here is a small explanation: "If you find the best strategy to use then all other strategys becomes unrelevant, everyone have the opportunity to use that strategy, if they decide not to use it then it's their own fault"

Meaning i can play the way i want, as long as i dont cheat, glitch etc.





Explain this to me and then ill agree with you:

In what way am i exploiting game vulnerabilities or glitches by zig-zagging if you as a defender have all the means to play as good defense as you can? Would be something else if you couldn't stop it at all.

In what way am i exploiting game vulnerabilities or glitches by driving baseline if you as a defender have all the means to play as good defense as you can? 2K can easily remove those baseline animations. Would be something else if you couldn't stop it at all.

In what way am i exploiting game vulnerabilities or glitches by stepbacking into the corner if you have all the means to play as good defense as you can? Only annoying because 2K allows contested shots to go in at a way to high % and 2k themselves made that stepback. Would be something else if you couldn't stop it at all.

In what way am i exploiting game vulnerabilities or glitches by spamming dribbles when you have all the means to play as good defense as you can? Would be something else if you couldn't stop it at all

I'm sorry but I have to agree with this guy. Calling perfectly legal, albeit highly annoying, moves(corner stepbacks, "zig-zagging" etc) exploits, leads to 2K doing what they did with the ability to draw charges from 2k11-2k14 and pretty much removing them. You CAN stop or limit the success of zig-zagging and corner stepbacks by playing better defense, just like you could avoid the charge thing by not recklessly sprinting up the court and passing the ball, there is no way to stop the double dribble thing.

Sent from my Samsung Galaxy S5 using tapatalk

[BellSKA]

Re: Why is it "okay" to cheat?

I start typing a well thought out answer and all I think is the f'er hooked me again. The GD troll got me again.

Here's where you're wrong, until they make defending it 95% as effective as your 100% effective zig zagging it's overpowering. While you CAN defend it, the ease at which you can perform zig zag is at a much favoring ratio.

The other notion, is there's nothing that deters you from zig zagging. It's not like it wears your player down to the point where you zig zag at a substantially slower rate. That's also where the exploit comes in. Exploit doesn't just mean they did it now they're cheaters. There's misuse and abuse that add into that. If you're a multi-time a game offender you're definitely exploiting a vulnerability in the game.