So making a 7 ft. SF is the way to go for MyPark in 2k16?

[nova91]

Re: So making a 7 ft. SF is the way to go for MyPark in 2k16?

Here's how I see it.

Making your player play how you want is important, but when a mode is tied to an online game mode balances must take place.

If you want a 7'0 SF like KD cool, go for it. But KD is nowhere near as fast as Russel Westbrook, nowhere near as strong as Lebron, can't handle the rock like Kyrie Irving, and cannot rebound like DeAndre Jordan.

2k makes great basketball games imo, but the way they rate players has always been pretty darn bad. Onyx Wilt with 94 speed and Ruby(or whatever he is) Blake with 99 speed proves it.(I don't care how good Wilt was at track in the 50s, he never earned an olympic gold medal so f him having 99 speed).

There is enough data on basketball players to put every possible playstyle with the appropriate caps in this basketball game to balance it. If you can't have fun with a realistic player then you need to take a long hard look at yourself.

If you can't have fun sacrificing rebounding, defense, strength, and elite speed to play with a 7'0 sharpshooter that can handle the ball then I don't know what to say to you. KD is rated in the mid 90s with these ratings so what is the problem?

I just don't get it man. This game is easy. Really easy. You can average 30pts 10rebs and 10assists a game with a 70 rated player, what harm is a realistic attribute cap gonna do? How will it hurt your fun to play with a player that is believable with as easy as this game is?

There have been attribute caps, guys still complained. There are height caps, guys still complained. At some point you online guys have to accept that people are going to go after the most OP build, whether it's a 6'4" 87 ovr PG or a 7' 99 ovr SF. Limiting players does not create balance. Making defense matter more creates balance. Making shot selection matter more creates balance.

I guarantee you, that if they add "realistic" attribute caps, that online guys will still be complaining next year about some other OP thing and some other suggestion about how to fix something that's not broken anywhere else. They did it with so-called "charge cheese", "off-ball defense cheese", "cherry picking cheese", "points in the paint cheese" the pump fake foul etc. All of these were very minimal issues outside of online play with a certain type of player. The ability to draw a decent charge still hasn't recovered, CPU teammates are even dumber on defense sagging 5-6 ft off of great shooters, routine passes(with good passers) to start the break are sailing 5 ft over guys' heads, teammates constantly missing bunnies, that dunk/throw animation that triggers far too often and no ability make a guy pay for biting on the pump fakes by forcing the foul and possibly getting an and-1.

[MrBallaBoy21]

Re: So making a 7 ft. SF is the way to go for MyPark in 2k16?

There have been attribute caps, guys still complained. There are height caps, guys still complained. At some point you online guys have to accept that people are going to go after the most OP build, whether it's a 6'4" 87 ovr PG or a 7' 99 ovr SF. Limiting players does not create balance. Making defense matter more creates balance. Making shot selection matter more creates balance.

From my many years of experience with this game franchise, what has always effected the game the most are the player ratings, the sliders, and the difficulty(in that order). Some of the rosters I've downloaded from here(Sim World, Nogster, etc.) make the game play so much better it's not even funny, and they do this every year no matter what shape the game is in fundamentally.

You are not limiting players by giving them rating standards based on real basketball in what is supposed to be a basketball simulation videogame. What can you not do with a 7 ft MyPlayer with similar ratings to Kevin Durant? Or a 6'8 MyPlayer with Lebron's ratings?

I guarantee you, that if they add "realistic" attribute caps, that online guys will still be complaining next year about some other OP thing and some other suggestion about how to fix something that's not broken anywhere else. They did it with so-called "charge cheese", "off-ball defense cheese", "cherry picking cheese", "points in the paint cheese" the pump fake foul etc. All of these were very minimal issues outside of online play with a certain type of player. The ability to draw a decent charge still hasn't recovered, CPU teammates are even dumber on defense sagging 5-6 ft off of great shooters, routine passes(with good passers) to start the break are sailing 5 ft over guys' heads, teammates constantly missing bunnies, that dunk/throw animation that triggers far too often and no ability make a guy pay for biting on the pump fakes by forcing the foul and possibly getting an and-1.

That has nothing to do with balancing the creation of MyPlayers by limiting them to a specific playstyle with ratings caps. This is a ratings issue, not a code issue.

[kiev123]

Re: So making a 7 ft. SF is the way to go for MyPark in 2k16?

Online there should be attribute caps defined by your player's position,height and weight just like on FIFA. Wanna be a 7 foot SF ? Sure but you're gonna be slower than a SF who is 6'7 or 6'8. A 7'3 320 pound center will have a substantially lower vertical cap than a 6'11 270 pound center. People can't point to players like KD and Giannis as those guys are the exception not the rule. Online has to be balanced.
Offline however you should be allowed to have whatever attributes you want.

[xzcfhxcgh]

Re: So making a 7 ft. SF is the way to go for MyPark in 2k16?

We've been complaining about 7ft small forwards for 4-5 years now. Let's hope they fix it this year and by fix i don't mean make the max height 6'11. I mean base attribute caps on position AND height.

[10]

Re: So making a 7 ft. SF is the way to go for MyPark in 2k16?

Online there should be attribute caps defined by your player's position,height and weight just like on FIFA. Wanna be a 7 foot SF ? Sure but you're gonna be slower than a SF who is 6'7 or 6'8. A 7'3 320 pound center will have a substantially lower vertical cap than a 6'11 270 pound center. People can't point to players like KD and Giannis as those guys are the exception not the rule. Online has to be balanced.
Offline however you should be allowed to have whatever attributes you want.

I think this is the direction park and rec need to go in. For those of you that haven't played fifa pro clubs you can pick your position (goalie/defender/midfielder/forward) and also pick a play style (not sure of all of them but there's at least 4 or 5 different types for each position that affect your player's ratings). After picking your play style you can set your physical attributes to whatever you want but as someone before stated there is a risk/reward factor. Smaller players are faster and better dribblers but also have low strength and are knocked off the ball easier. If you want to make a 5'5 forward sure you might blow by some people but if they catch you you'll probably lose the ball. If you want to be a 6'5 forward you'll win headers and have high strength but probably have speed in the 60's and low dribbling.

Another thing I think fifa does well is rewarding you for playing the game with attribute boosts. For example, after you make x amount of passes on fifa you get a passing attribute boost or after you put x amount of shots on target your shooting rating goes up. I strongly dislike the way mycareer forces you to play so I haven't gotten through 5 games of a season yet so I have to rely on getting 200-300 vc each game from the park. In the time it takes to get ~35k to fully upgrade one aspect of your player you could average 10 points 10 boards and 10 assists and get nothing for it. What I'm suggesting is that say after you get 100 rebounds you get a rebound rating boost, same with assists, dunks, 3's etc.

Granted a lot of these things work in fifa because there are way more positions but the general principles still apply. The game is mostly balanced online, infinitely more than 2k. People in 2k aren't making KD or Giannis (players that have weaknesses), they're making a combination of the best players. They're making players that can dribble and create their shot like Steph, attack the rim like LeBron, pass like CP3, defend the rim like AD and rebound like DeAndre. The current system rewards players with less skill but willing to pay for vc.

Lastly I'd love to see a skill level for dribbling (also just like fifa ). Players would have 1-5 star skills that dictate what dribbling moves they can or can't do. Kyrie and Steph would have 5* while guys like DeAndre would have 1*. So if you want a guy who can handle the ball you would make a pg or sg that would probably be 6'5 or shorter and by using dribbling moves in game you could eventually work your way to 5*, probably starting at 3*.

[HowDareI]

Re: So making a 7 ft. SF is the way to go for MyPark in 2k16?

People keep mixing this up....like really bad.

There's two types of people here:

The ones that see a 7' sf and say it's cheesy, even tho the further the game (of basketball itself) evolves players become more and more position-less.

And the ones who actually get it, and see that a big 7 footer shouldn't be quick and agile with a tight cross.

What really needs to be addressed in 2K16 is how weight effects things:

A 7' 210 lb SF is not able to plow into the lane and posterize a big guy like Cousins or Marc Gasol. But, a slower, 7' 250 lb SF could.

But conversely, the lighter one should have a quicker more agile body/dribble than the big guy.

If 2K took weight/strength into account we'd see a lot more variety of not only body types and players but the speed of the moves they do.

And seriously gameplay needs to be addressed first, not how tall you can make guys and their caps.
Like I said the speed at which bigger guys can do things regardless of their stats is what a main problem is.
250 lb+ guys should not be as quick as a 230 lb guy regardless if their both the same position.

And defensively, a guy like Tony Allen can have success against a guy like KD because no matter how good a 7' KD is he can't get as low as Allen can. And Tony Allen can be quicker on D, 1 because he doesn't have a ball in his hand and 2 because he's smaller, lower to the ground, and quicker.

If 2K addresses defense first, you wouldn't think twice about a cheesy 7' SF because a smaller guy would be quicker to D him up. The real advantages would be on the boards and down low like it should be.

So don't blame people who make these guys, until 2K fixes the gameplay problems there's no reason not to be a 7 footer...no reason to limit yourself.

[jaateloauto]

Re: So making a 7 ft. SF is the way to go for MyPark in 2k16?

The game is encouraging everyone to build a 7 foot SF because it's objectively the best one you can make.

The game is balanced around NBA teams playing against each other, where the closest counterpart is Kevin Durant who isn't as fast, as good a shooter, as good a rebounder or as good a defender as created players. Playing with or against teams full of 7 foot SFs is just not fun because the game wasn't designed for that.

FIFA type of attribute scaling would solve the problem with height. There will still be ideal heights for different positions but that's true to real life as well.

Although until 2K is going to include a crew mode balance between created players is going to be irrelevant to sim guys (and even then, this game is way more arcade than it should be to allow a competitive environment).

[10]

Re: So making a 7 ft. SF is the way to go for MyPark in 2k16?

People keep mixing this up....like really bad.

There's two types of people here:

The ones that see a 7' sf and say it's cheesy, even tho the further the game (of basketball itself) evolves players become more and more position-less.

And the ones who actually get it, and see that a big 7 footer shouldn't be quick and agile with a tight cross.

What really needs to be addressed in 2K16 is how weight effects things:

A 7' 210 lb SF is not able to plow into the lane and posterize a big guy like Cousins or Marc Gasol. But, a slower, 7' 250 lb SF could.

But conversely, the lighter one should have a quicker more agile body/dribble than the big guy.

If 2K took weight/strength into account we'd see a lot more variety of not only body types and players but the speed of the moves they do.

And seriously gameplay needs to be addressed first, not how tall you can make guys and their caps.
Like I said the speed at which bigger guys can do things regardless of their stats is what a main problem is.
250 lb+ guys should not be as quick as a 230 lb guy regardless if their both the same position.

And defensively, a guy like Tony Allen can have success against a guy like KD because no matter how good a 7' KD is he can't get as low as Allen can. And Tony Allen can be quicker on D, 1 because he doesn't have a ball in his hand and 2 because he's smaller, lower to the ground, and quicker.

If 2K addresses defense first, you wouldn't think twice about a cheesy 7' SF because a smaller guy would be quicker to D him up. The real advantages would be on the boards and down low like it should be.

So don't blame people who make these guys, until 2K fixes the gameplay problems there's no reason not to be a 7 footer...no reason to limit yourself.

Is there a player that has ever had this combination that's been considered a 3? LeBron is 6'8 and depending on what number you believe for his weight he's ~220, Giannis and KD are both under 7' and well under 200. I don't think there's any players around 250 but centers that have nowhere near even 75-80 speed. The positionless basketball stuff is fine and I definitely agree but it carries much more weight on the defensive end right now. I think what most people want is an even playing field. Anybody expecting to go online and get a sim experience is going to get frustrated pretty quickly. If 2k does add something to defense it still doesn't fix the fact there is no way to defend a 7 footer with handles like Kyrie, a 90+ 3 and midrange (and since for whatever reason post ratings are in this category) a strong low post game. Doesn't matter if we get a better first step on defense the other guy can score however he wants and a good player will do it every time. Tony Allen has success against KD because he settles for long 2's and contested 3's because he doesn't have a reliable post game and he can't attack the rim all that well in a half court offense. I 100% agree with you about weight being a factor when attacking the rim. If you want be someone KD's size big men should be able to affect your shot at the rim but you would have a good mid/3 rating. Defensively you should be able to crowd them and make them attack the rim or take some contested shots. If you want to be someone LeBron's size then you would be good at attacking the rim but have lower mid/3 and defensively you could back off to cut off a drive and hope they take long jumpers.

If they just take away the zig zag and dribble pull up/step back I'll be happy because I honestly don't think anything is going to change in regard to the ratings system. Player shooting ratings need to drop severely once you start dribbling especially after moving back and forth. Steph shoots ~43% from 3 when creating his own shot and after him Harden is at 36% and from there it drops off to low 30's and high 20's.

You're right there is no reason to not be an all around 7 footer. It's like Battlefield or Call of Duty giving you extra health or making your bullets do more damage.

[TheBallGuru]

Re: So making a 7 ft. SF is the way to go for MyPark in 2k16?

Is there a player that has ever had this combination that's been considered a 3? LeBron is 6'8 and depending on what number you believe for his weight he's ~220, Giannis and KD are both under 7' and well under 200. I don't think there's any players around 250 but centers that have nowhere near even 75-80 speed. The positionless basketball stuff is fine and I definitely agree but it carries much more weight on the defensive end right now. I think what most people want is an even playing field. Anybody expecting to go online and get a sim experience is going to get frustrated pretty quickly. If 2k does add something to defense it still doesn't fix the fact there is no way to defend a 7 footer with handles like Kyrie, a 90+ 3 and midrange (and since for whatever reason post ratings are in this category) a strong low post game. Doesn't matter if we get a better first step on defense the other guy can score however he wants and a good player will do it every time. Tony Allen has success against KD because he settles for long 2's and contested 3's because he doesn't have a reliable post game and he can't attack the rim all that well in a half court offense. I 100% agree with you about weight being a factor when attacking the rim. If you want be someone KD's size big men should be able to affect your shot at the rim but you would have a good mid/3 rating. Defensively you should be able to crowd them and make them attack the rim or take some contested shots. If you want to be someone LeBron's size then you would be good at attacking the rim but have lower mid/3 and defensively you could back off to cut off a drive and hope they take long jumpers.



If they just take away the zig zag and dribble pull up/step back I'll be happy because I honestly don't think anything is going to change in regard to the ratings system. Player shooting ratings need to drop severely once you start dribbling especially after moving back and forth. Steph shoots ~43% from 3 when creating his own shot and after him Harden is at 36% and from there it drops off to low 30's and high 20's.



You're right there is no reason to not be an all around 7 footer. It's like Battlefield or Call of Duty giving you extra health or making your bullets do more damage.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11589484/lebron-james-cleveland-cavaliers-enter-training-camp-new-weight-class

Lebron is 250 and has been near 270 for parts of his career so what you talking about 220? Lol where'd you pull that info? Just random?

[10]

Re: So making a 7 ft. SF is the way to go for MyPark in 2k16?

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/11...w-weight-class

Lebron is 250 and has been near 270 for parts of his career so what you talking about 220? Lol where'd you pull that info? Just random?

Listed heights and weights are frequently incorrect but okay let's go with 250. Doesn't change my point that physically LeBron is a one in a million athlete in regard to size and speed but is actually the norm in 2k. Glad that was your takeaway from my post though.

[HowDareI]

Re: So making a 7 ft. SF is the way to go for MyPark in 2k16?

Is there a player that has ever had this combination that's been considered a 3? LeBron is 6'8 and depending on what number you believe for his weight he's ~220, Giannis and KD are both under 7' and well under 200. I don't think there's any players around 250 but centers that have nowhere near even 75-80 speed. The positionless basketball stuff is fine and I definitely agree but it carries much more weight on the defensive end right now. I think what most people want is an even playing field. Anybody expecting to go online and get a sim experience is going to get frustrated pretty quickly. If 2k does add something to defense it still doesn't fix the fact there is no way to defend a 7 footer with handles like Kyrie, a 90+ 3 and midrange (and since for whatever reason post ratings are in this category) a strong low post game. Doesn't matter if we get a better first step on defense the other guy can score however he wants and a good player will do it every time. Tony Allen has success against KD because he settles for long 2's and contested 3's because he doesn't have a reliable post game and he can't attack the rim all that well in a half court offense. I 100% agree with you about weight being a factor when attacking the rim. If you want be someone KD's size big men should be able to affect your shot at the rim but you would have a good mid/3 rating. Defensively you should be able to crowd them and make them attack the rim or take some contested shots. If you want to be someone LeBron's size then you would be good at attacking the rim but have lower mid/3 and defensively you could back off to cut off a drive and hope they take long jumpers.

If they just take away the zig zag and dribble pull up/step back I'll be happy because I honestly don't think anything is going to change in regard to the ratings system. Player shooting ratings need to drop severely once you start dribbling especially after moving back and forth. Steph shoots ~43% from 3 when creating his own shot and after him Harden is at 36% and from there it drops off to low 30's and high 20's.

You're right there is no reason to not be an all around 7 footer. It's like Battlefield or Call of Duty giving you extra health or making your bullets do more damage.

Well to be fair a lot of problems stem from the 3 on 3 environment first and foremost.

Let's say it's two 7' sf's and a 7'2 center against a 6'4 pg 6'9 sf and 7'2 center. The balance is already gone. It's like Lebron, KD, and Dwight Howard vs Kyle Lowry, Kobe, and Anthony Davis.
Size is always a problem in basketball, that's why in a 5 on 5 game you got set matchups.
If we had a crew mode where they limited it somehow, where like you need a guard, forward, and center to even start a game we'd see less bs matchups.
Regardless if it's a 6'7 pg or not it's still better than a 7' sf running point.

Of course this would be unpopular and lose money off of the cheesy players who can't exploit having unfair matchups. But if 2K really is about sim basketball then they need to start making choices.

And again, KD isn't great in the post but he's a NBA player against a 6'5 player I bet in a 1 on 1 he could kill Tony Allen in the post. But 5 on 5 environment he's useless because you got 2 players coming over to help.
In a 3 on 3 the help is more reluctant for obvious reasons.

And no there's not 7' 250 sf's but there are stretch 4's up there in size who can play sf a little but again more like 6'10 240ish. It's still MY player and at the end of the day it's not a good idea to limit how people create their guys whether it's for the good or not.

If 2K takes away the zig zag, stepbacks, baselines...etc, and actually uses a little more realism the 7' problem will start disappearing.
It's not even about how fast they can cross over or dribble, because a smaller guy will ALWAYS be able to get down lower and be quicker left or right on defense...meaning they should be able to stop a bigger guy from getting to a spot on offense.

We need to put the pressure on 2K to make defense over offense a priority. And if a 7' guy takes you in the paint then good...because they should. And it will always be a problem online in park because there are no matchups or position restrictions...but....

If we do finally get crew, then hopefully 2K takes this into account because there needs to be structure in basketball. 7 footers don't play point..because they aren't able to dribble against a smaller guy. Lebron is at the limit, he's 6'8 and great ballhandler...but any taller than that and a smaller guy can poke the ball away at ease.

[10]

Re: So making a 7 ft. SF is the way to go for MyPark in 2k16?

Well to be fair a lot of problems stem from the 3 on 3 environment first and foremost.

Let's say it's two 7' sf's and a 7'2 center against a 6'4 pg 6'9 sf and 7'2 center. The balance is already gone. It's like Lebron, KD, and Dwight Howard vs Kyle Lowry, Kobe, and Anthony Davis.
Size is always a problem in basketball, that's why in a 5 on 5 game you got set matchups.
If we had a crew mode where they limited it somehow, where like you need a guard, forward, and center to even start a game we'd see less bs matchups.
Regardless if it's a 6'7 pg or not it's still better than a 7' sf running point.

Of course this would be unpopular and lose money off of the cheesy players who can't exploit having unfair matchups. But if 2K really is about sim basketball then they need to start making choices.

And again, KD isn't great in the post but he's a NBA player against a 6'5 player I bet in a 1 on 1 he could kill Tony Allen in the post. But 5 on 5 environment he's useless because you got 2 players coming over to help.
In a 3 on 3 the help is more reluctant for obvious reasons.

And no there's not 7' 250 sf's but there are stretch 4's up there in size who can play sf a little but again more like 6'10 240ish. It's still MY player and at the end of the day it's not a good idea to limit how people create their guys whether it's for the good or not.

If 2K takes away the zig zag, stepbacks, baselines...etc, and actually uses a little more realism the 7' problem will start disappearing.
It's not even about how fast they can cross over or dribble, because a smaller guy will ALWAYS be able to get down lower and be quicker left or right on defense...meaning they should be able to stop a bigger guy from getting to a spot on offense.

We need to put the pressure on 2K to make defense over offense a priority. And if a 7' guy takes you in the paint then good...because they should. And it will always be a problem online in park because there are no matchups or position restrictions...but....

If we do finally get crew, then hopefully 2K takes this into account because there needs to be structure in basketball. 7 footers don't play point..because they aren't able to dribble against a smaller guy. Lebron is at the limit, he's 6'8 and great ballhandler...but any taller than that and a smaller guy can poke the ball away at ease.

Yep, yep and yep. I completely agree with all of this. 3 on 3 definitely limits what you can do defensively as far as help and double teams and overall options for team defense. You pretty much just have to hope the person you're playing shoots when you're near enough to contest the shot or drives directly at a big man at the rim, hoping to get the animation where he throws the ball at the sideline instead of dunking. I'm not stupid enough to think that the majority of the people who play this game are going to suddenly decide to not make 99 overall players and try to score as much as possible by any means necessary, all in the name of competitive fairness. If we get some real help defensively then I'll be happy. Luckily the game doesn't really let users take full advantage of pretty much being basketball gods and most people also don't understand how to actually use a 7' player anyway and just sit on the 3 point line the entire game. User skill still plays the biggest factor but defense needs attention.

Other users are as much of the problem (probably more) as 2k, though to be fair there are a fair amount of exploits that could easily be fixed.

[MrBallaBoy21]

Re: So making a 7 ft. SF is the way to go for MyPark in 2k16?

And seriously gameplay needs to be addressed first, not how tall you can make guys and their caps.

How would setting height and ratings caps hinder game development? Out of all they do in terms of changing park gameplay it would take the least amount of time by far. Weight should be important to strength/speed balance too.

Like I said the speed at which bigger guys can do things regardless of their stats is what a main problem is.
250 lb+ guys should not be as quick as a 230 lb guy regardless if their both the same position.

This is a speed cap issue. Scaled size ratings aren't necessary they would be the same speed as if they were capped anyway....

[Legendary24]

Re: So making a 7 ft. SF is the way to go for MyPark in 2k16?

Right now there is no reason to make a PG or SG for online play because SFs can run,shoot, and handle the ball just as well while having a significant height advantage and access to Post Lockdown Defender. Even PFs are borderline pointless, although they can be an inch taller and have better rebounding potential the lowered cap on speed plus the inability to gain Perimeter Lockdown Defender doesn't make it a fair trade.

I don't care how people choose to use their players offline but with the way the cap and height/weight system currently works online 7 foot SFs are definitely cheese since they make 2 positions useless with PFs right on the edge.

[TheBallGuru]

Re: So making a 7 ft. SF is the way to go for MyPark in 2k16?

Listed heights and weights are frequently incorrect but okay let's go with 250. Doesn't change my point that physically LeBron is a one in a million athlete in regard to size and speed but is actually the norm in 2k. Glad that was your takeaway from my post though.

Well when LBJ says it himself and you spew false nonsense, I'll disagree with your bs post.