What Are Your Constructive Ideas for Improving Defense?

[Pokes404]

Re: What Are Your Constructive Ideas for Improving Defense?

Most people have hit on the big points that need to be addressed with the defense, so I'm going to take a little different angle with this. What is the thing about the defense this year that I hope 2K doesn't lose?

Well, I play a lot of Team Up mode, and people have to pick-their-poison this year. In year's past, people could camp the paint, play the passing lanes, double the big men, stop the drive, and recover to the corner to contest the jump shot. The recovery speed was so insane that they could literally just about cover everything at once. This year, if they help off their man, the drive and kick can be a thing of beauty. If they get inside their man's shirt, the driving lane or post up game is available. My teammates and I don't use the zig-zag tactic, so we've actually been able to run some nice offense this year by reading what the defense is giving us. This wasn't always possible in past games.

Obviously, 2K is going to get blasted with complaints about the "responsiveness" on defense, but I hope they can tighten up the defense controls next year while keeping the pick-your-poison aspect of this year's defense intact.

[LorenzoDC]

Re: What Are Your Constructive Ideas for Improving Defense?

Loose balls still need improvement as well.

Too many times the game punishes you for playing good defense.

If you tap the ball loose with a steal attempt, or block a shot, too often the animations play out as if the play was designed by the offense to create an open look. It's as if your well executed defense actually should count in the opponent's assist column as a gift.

[TaylorBoi]

Re: What Are Your Constructive Ideas for Improving Defense?

Uhm, no? I dunno, but for me on PC it isn't that way. I mostly play online, and I find defense is possible quite good.

We on two different platforms bruh. I'm on the Xbox One and the delay is awful unless you play early in the morning or real late at night.


I'm more of a MyPark/Rec player so I'm not sure if you guys get this in Quick Play/My Team etc. but 2K needs to get rid of that crazy defensive bump animation. I can't count how many times I've tried to cut baseline off just to get bumped out of the way or even worse ran over. It's so drastic in this game it's damn near impossible to recover from.

[Coach2K]

Re: What Are Your Constructive Ideas for Improving Defense?

I personally would like to see the defensive settings turned off for players who choose to use zone so they are not an option for them. To me this is an easy way for players to abuse the settings.

I'd really like zone eliminated to be honest but if it's in there, no settings.

Next, all user vs user games should be hall of fame level, sim sliders in all modes. It's impossible to get defense right for all modes on all these different difficulties.

The are enough hall of fame level players out there that it's time we admit it. I consider myself a hall of fame level player and I'm not that good.

Again, I'm talking user v user here not user v CPU.

The point is the difficulty and sliders should just start being standard like the goal being ten feet and the free throw line 15 ft.

Sure vs the CPU, it's different. Let the difficulty be adjusted there.

I'm also really not a fan of the POEs or defensive settings and would like to see both of them go as well.

The use of these settings makes users be able to make every team they use play the same way. Not every team can play the same.

As a user of a weaker team, the weaknesses of the POEs really show. For example, if my POE is not set to limit transition defenders run from the ball on the break. If I'm not crashing guys don't even try to rebound. It's to exaggerated.

What I prefer in its place is individual player abilities set up through tendencies and for those player tendencies to be tied to coaches so that teams play more like themselves.

There's no reason Hibbert should be handcuffed to his player when he wouldn't do that.

My personal approach to defense is to set my POEs at the beginning of the game and I don't change then and I leave my defensive settings alone.

The key to good defense starts on offense. Using this approach forces me to get the best shots I can and when I do that my defense plays better as a unit.

I look at the settings as nothing more than defensive assist. The more you have to do manually the better IMO.

That includes hedging or playing someone tight, etc.

I much rather see guys play good defense manually than by setting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[stillfeelme]

Re: What Are Your Constructive Ideas for Improving Defense?

www.Coach2K.com,

I see what you mean about having tendencies for defense I want that as well but that is really only for CPU controlled teams and maybe "auto" settings especially for pick and roll.

The settings should dictate how you want you and your teammates to play defense, remember you can only control one player at a time. So what you are saying is all the non-human controlled teammates should play by tendencies? I can say I hope they don't go that route.

Most teams do play say pick and roll's a certain way but they also switch it up based off what the other team is killing them with. Did you watch the finals? I don't see how you can define how you want your individual players to defend without settings.

Kerr chose not to double LeBron for what 3 games and scrapped that strategy because it really wasn't working.

As a user you should be punished for using the wrong settings for the wrong personnel. Switching picks with non-mobile bigs making non mobile bigs cover out on the wing, sagging off good shooters etc.

[Hustle Westbrook]

Re: What Are Your Constructive Ideas for Improving Defense?

Make blocking require some sort of skill and timing again.

Right now all you need to do is mash the Y/Triangle Buttons and you can get a block with anybody. It's ridiculous how many times I've been chase down blocked by a PG on a fast break.

[Coach2K]

Re: What Are Your Constructive Ideas for Improving Defense?

www.Coach2K.com,

I see what you mean about having tendencies for defense I want that as well but that is really only for CPU controlled teams and maybe "auto" settings especially for pick and roll.

The settings should dictate how you want you and your teammates to play defense, remember you can only control one player at a time. So what you are saying is all the non-human controlled teammates should play by tendencies? I can say I hope they don't go that route.

Most teams do play say pick and roll's a certain way but they also switch it up based off what the other team is killing them with. Did you watch the finals? I don't see how you can define how you want your individual players to defend without settings.

Kerr chose not to double LeBron for what 3 games and scrapped that strategy because it really wasn't working.

As a user you should be punished for using the wrong settings for the wrong personnel. Switching picks with non-mobile bigs making non mobile bigs cover out on the wing, sagging off good shooters etc.

I understand what you are saying and agree to a point. Obviously your CPU teammates are programmed to do something anyway, why not use the settings to control what they do?

But when a CPU defender does through programming what he's told to do, for example double the ball in a pick and roll, that CPU doubler is often more effective than a manually controlled one which leads me to call that assistance.

Remember, nothing prevents you from playing the pick and roll a certain way manually with the screener's defender at any time regardless of setting and that's what I think players should do, move control to the screener and back to the ball handler.

I've watched the Pacers get killed continually go over screens 30 feet from the basket versus the Heat in conference finals situations with Vogel never changing that up even though I personally thought it was the stupidest thing I ever saw and I don't do it in 2K.

So it could be argued am I really playing sim basketball if I make my team play defense in such a way they wouldn't in real life?

Anyway, while the intended purpose of settings is sound, in reality, the way the settings influence the game play makes it more of CPU assistance in my mind.

My own personal feelings for this comes from my experiments playing the HOF CPU. Without settings, when I first play a team, I give up 65 percent shooting. But, if go in and tweak the settings, suddenly I can hold the team under 50 percent.

Did I magically become a better defender between those games? The answer is no, I made the CPU behind me a better defender.

However, with practice and experience playing that same HOF CPU team over and over, I can learn to hold that same HOF CPU team to under 50 percent manually.

While, I don't mind the use of them against me, to me, it makes more sense when you are playing versus another user to be as manual as possible and by that teams natural tendencies.

I want to get beat by the user and not the users CPU settings.

[jfsolo]

Re: What Are Your Constructive Ideas for Improving Defense?

So it could be argued am I really playing sim basketball if I make my team play defense in such a way they wouldn't in real life?



Did I magically become a better defender between those games? The answer is no, I made the CPU behind me a better defender.


While, I don't mind the use of them against me, to me, it makes more sense when you are playing versus another user to be as manual as possible and by that teams natural tendencies.

I want to get beat by the user and not the users CPU settings.

So the the User shouldn't attempt to utilize their personnel in a smarter more effective way if possible? Should they be beholden to inefficient and flawed schemes?

This may be an irreconcilable philosophical schism between some members of the community, but for a lot of us, Sim play isn't about User stick heroics, but utilizing teams and players in a way that is realistic and logical, but not beholden to established methods, especially ones that don't maximize opportunities for success.

IMO, a User out-scheming another User in a way that doesn't exploit flaws in the gameplay mechanics is as valid a way to win as one who just stick skills his way to victory.

[Coach2K]

Re: What Are Your Constructive Ideas for Improving Defense?

One other thing I'd like to see incorporated in the game play is the ability to change more on the fly during the game especially with matching up defensively instead of having to call a timeout to do it.

[NINJAK2]

Re: What Are Your Constructive Ideas for Improving Defense?

I've been begging for more forced dribble pick-ups when users attempt to spam the paint or bullheadedly dribble into your chest repeatedly. Last time I remember seeing this was in 2k6. Right now users don't really get punished for these practices. It was cool in 2k6 when a guy would lose his dribble at half-court or in some other part of the court and be forced to pass or shoot from an undesireable location.


They really need to add more animations on the defensive side of the ball both on and off ball. Sometimes it can be difficult for the defense to create contact animations with offensive players and this needs to change imo. I really liked those defensive off ball animations in the competition's video..2k needs to bring in Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest or someone to help 2k figure out tricks of the trade for playing man 2 man d in the nba and incorporate them into their product.

[WishListGOD 1 OF 2]

Re: What Are Your Constructive Ideas for Improving Defense?

We WishListGod believe that defense can be vastly improved by implementing these simple things. 2k has the foundation already to have good defense but is hamperd by bad balance.

• REMOVING DELAY/Tighten Up. There is a strange floating feeling when playing defense weather online or not a sense of being detached that feeling is because of bad momentum mapping. Your LITERALLY not fast enough on defense so the game makes up for this by sliding you in areas you Couldn't keep up "zig zag cheese" exploits this and auto contest is the excuse. The SOLUTION to this is to tighten up the defense add the missing steps regardless if your beat or not and have attributes of speed determine the shuffle of your feet to keep up. Also if get beat off the dribble give the player the ability to manually cut them off useing the right stick in the desired direction so people can be held accountable.

• MORE CONTROL /Animations. While offense is getting there more and more defense always seems to be two steps slow(pun intended) we need things LIKE being able to bump the ball handler with are bodys by tapping RT/R2 for each an EVERY bumb to slow them down with responsiveness. Being able to guard off ball aggressive effectively by shadowing are match up holding the RIGHT STICK in their direction to sleal them off. If are match up tries to run and get open we can stay with them by continuing to hold the RIGHT STICK in there direction but holding RT/R2 to sprint with them trying to deny ball. Attributes such as fatigue pay a huge part in being effective at this (Tony Allen) or not (Matthew Dellevadova). More defense can hamper offense due to the fatigue of playing both sides(defensive stoper will be required to lighten load) players will have to think(play smart)/strategy MORE CONTROL.

• CLEANING UP/Rebounding. NO MORE baked animation under the rim if i box you out LT/L2 i can use the LEFT STICK and RT/R2 to aggressively guide you away from the rim in ANY direction the stick points, how far depending on your strength, positining and size. Also if i establish good position i have the CHOICE to grab the rebound Hold Y/TRIANGLE or tap it out by taping Y/TRIANGLE useing the LEFT STICK to direct the tap. This should be free moving and fluid no canimations, some players shoud be so good at establishing position that they don't even have to jump get a rebound, tip, or tap this should be skill based with attributes only determining (strength/BOX OUT/back down). Also the game should just give us the ability to box out or keep at bay useing the RIGHT STICK someone just standing under the rim with no position arms folded. The only reason charge cheese rebounding is a problem is because the game WARPS the ball to anybody whos closer to the ball and doesn't count the cheeser until he's jumping for the ball and decides he was there first just bad game logic.

• BRING BACK LIVE BALL PHYSICS/no brainer.

Sorry if this post was a little sloppy typing on a ps4

[stillfeelme]

Re: What Are Your Constructive Ideas for Improving Defense?

I understand what you are saying and agree to a point. Obviously your CPU teammates are programmed to do something anyway, why not use the settings to control what they do?

But when a CPU defender does through programming what he's told to do, for example double the ball in a pick and roll, that CPU doubler is often more effective than a manually controlled one which leads me to call that assistance.

Remember, nothing prevents you from playing the pick and roll a certain way manually with the screener's defender at any time regardless of setting and that's what I think players should do, move control to the screener and back to the ball handler.

I've watched the Pacers get killed continually go over screens 30 feet from the basket versus the Heat in conference finals situations with Vogel never changing that up even though I personally thought it was the stupidest thing I ever saw and I don't do it in 2K.

So it could be argued am I really playing sim basketball if I make my team play defense in such a way they wouldn't in real life?

Anyway, while the intended purpose of settings is sound, in reality, the way the settings influence the game play makes it more of CPU assistance in my mind.

My own personal feelings for this comes from my experiments playing the HOF CPU. Without settings, when I first play a team, I give up 65 percent shooting. But, if go in and tweak the settings, suddenly I can hold the team under 50 percent.

Did I magically become a better defender between those games? The answer is no, I made the CPU behind me a better defender.

However, with practice and experience playing that same HOF CPU team over and over, I can learn to hold that same HOF CPU team to under 50 percent manually.

While, I don't mind the use of them against me, to me, it makes more sense when you are playing versus another user to be as manual as possible and by that teams natural tendencies.

I want to get beat by the user and not the users CPU settings.

I see what you are saying but basketball is a team game. The whole team has to play as a unit or weaknesses will get exposed. When teams game plan to slow down a the other team the settings are basically what they are they are using to try to stop a team. That is you being the coach and player. Now if you feel something is overpowered to a point you think it is cheesy. I guess there may be something there

The problem is the default "auto" settings don't really reflect what schemes each team use on defense. That and they don't reflect enough options how teams choose to defend the pick and roll based on a bunch of matchups. The POE's is probably close but still not quite there

The part about the CPU being dumb, haha yeah your teammates are not optimized to play the best you need to make them better when you are not controlling them. I play sim but I am not about to have me playing sim to make sure I don't play smart basketball. Some coaches schemes don't make sense all the time to me. But I am not about to follow that just to make sure I am sim

[hesko]

Re: What Are Your Constructive Ideas for Improving Defense?

this has to be the best post ive seen on here. defense has to be looked at for sure. < #noglance

[hesko]

Re: What Are Your Constructive Ideas for Improving Defense?

I've been begging for more forced dribble pick-ups when users attempt to spam the paint or bullheadedly dribble into your chest repeatedly. Last time I remember seeing this was in 2k6. Right now users don't really get punished for these practices. It was cool in 2k6 when a guy would lose his dribble at half-court or in some other part of the court and be forced to pass or shoot from an undesireable location.


They really need to add more animations on the defensive side of the ball both on and off ball. Sometimes it can be difficult for the defense to create contact animations with offensive players and this needs to change imo. I really liked those defensive off ball animations in the competition's video..2k needs to bring in Bruce Bowen, Ron Artest or someone to help 2k figure out tricks of the trade for playing man 2 man d in the nba and incorporate them into their product.

i agree, they need to mocap them or do whatever they need to do to have the added animations animate realistically.

[hesko]

Re: What Are Your Constructive Ideas for Improving Defense?

I think it should be by a players defensive tendencies, defensive rating, and defensive skill. yes you can only control one player at a time, but say if i am controlling draymond green, i want to feel like "draymond green" playing defense. on the cpu side, all those factors should come into play based off of real life stats they get from the nba on each player. i say this because even though we are playing a video game, i need to feel like i have 4 other guys on my team with me. i know everyone has had a wtf kind of defense is that moment. where you thought your team mate would clearly pickup the opposing ball handler since he was facing him only to turn around and give up an easy basket.