There is nothing wrong with the CPU on-ball defense. Here are some tips....

[The 24th Letter]

Re: There is nothing wrong with the CPU on-ball defense. Here are some tips....

In other words,he's going completely nerf the defense lol.

I doubt the hitching/sliding can be fixed with a patch.

Hitching can, sliding cant.....you're not going to 'fix' something that no basketball game created has been able to properly replicate in a patch...

I trust Mike though...and I appreciate his attention to this...doesn't mean something wont go wrong but I know he has good intentions.

All I know is even after the patch, if folks are making a habit out of checking every replay to confirm every defensive foot plant was accurate and not expecting to see some odd stuff....they will still be disappointed.

I hope they preserve the the learning curve...then we can separate the people who don't actually want it easy from the people that just say they don't. I had enough of waltzing by defenders last year...

[ksuttonjr76]

Re: There is nothing wrong with the CPU on-ball defense. Here are some tips....

I can probably guarantee zig zag cheese is going to come back. The repercussions for taming down the existing on-ball defense will also mean the user's on-ball defense gets nerfed. Developers should look to remove warps and whatever hitches there are, but the existing level of on ball defense for defenders are fine.

When on-ball defense is nerfed, my educated guess is the on-ball defense gets nerfed for both cpu and user. My guess is selective nerfing of on-ball defense is going to be difficult to accomplish. If cpu gets nerfed, so will the user controlled team. The way the current mechanics of playing user on-ball defense I'm going to assume is somehow also tied to the way the cpu plays on-ball defense. You change one system for the cpu, you're indirectly changing the same system for the user.

I just played a game against the Nuggests in MyLeague and decided to save and exit. I am up 30 points at the half. Will resume later on.

Exactly! Like I said before, I'm going to trust 2K Sports, but my heart kinda sank after reading that tweet. I can understand working on the hitch, because that does have a DIRECT impact on the user's ability to get past the defender. However, I truly didn't believe that the "magnetic" defense was game breaking, especially when you had people like 24th posting videos after videos and giving great advice how to get past the CPU.

If they nerf the defense, defensive players are going to start complaining, because we won't be able to stay in front of the player or the ball handler is sliding off the defender like oil. Basically, we WON'T have a way to create contact to slow down or stop the ball handler from getting to the basket.

Then comes the side effects...players getting past defenders at will which create easy drive and kick situations, so now we're back to the ungodly amount of 3PT attempts. Then they'll start crying about not being able to hit wide open shots....aargh!

I might as well delete this game after the first patch. SMH, greatest game ever, but on it's way to becoming NBA 2K15 2.0.

[Scofield]

Re: There is nothing wrong with the CPU on-ball defense. Here are some tips....

Some of you really baffle me. Folks who've brought this issue up (and are worth listening to) are talking about a very specific type of warping. In the videos that have been presented what's on display are instances where the CPU is CLEARLY BEATEN and still gets back in position. These cases don't include the incidental sliding that we all obviously know can't be eliminated from sports games at the moment. Again, what's being addressed are the extreme cases that have been exhibited with video a number of times in this thread.

[scottyp180]

Re: There is nothing wrong with the CPU on-ball defense. Here are some tips....

I haven't played enough games to really comment on this issue one way the other (whether it is a major problem, minor issue, or somewhere in between). IMO yes things like sliding, warping, and otherwise unrealistic movement should be cleaned up (I actually have a minor gripe about how some blocks are a result of blockers "flying" towards the ball when the ball handler is a step or two ahead) but at the end of the day this is a videogame. It is difficult to impossible for every facet of the game to react realistically and appropriately. Add on top that we all want the game to be balanced (on offense and defense), void of cheese (especially on the offensive end), offer a challenge, etc.

Personally I would rather the cpu "cheat" and be difficult to drive by than for it to be easy to cross up and get by defenders. It would be great if a patch could clean up the unrealistic nature of the animations animations and planting but I have a feeling this might be something that might have to be worked on for next year.

[strawberryshortcake]

Re: There is nothing wrong with the CPU on-ball defense. Here are some tips....

Some of you really baffle me. Folks who've brought this issue up (and are worth listening to) are talking about a very specific type of warping. In the videos that have been presented what's on display are instances where the CPU is CLEARLY BEATEN and still gets back in position. These cases don't include the incidental sliding that we all obviously know can't be eliminated from sports games at the moment. Again, what's being addressed are the extreme cases that have been exhibited with video a number of times in this thread.

The same goes for your camp. You're not hearing the other side.

We have people clearly who likes the way the current on-ball defense is programmed while also saying the warping/sliding/hitch needs to go. I specifically mentioned warping/sliding vs on-ball sticking defense. There is absolutely a difference.

But there is also select group who says the legitimate sticking on-ball defense (non-warping/non-sliding) needs to be toned down. They don't mention about the warping/slding. All they want is the legitimate on-ball defense toned down.

[ksuttonjr76]

Re: There is nothing wrong with the CPU on-ball defense. Here are some tips....

What happened to the days when something on offense didn't work, the player regroups/pulls back to try it again or move to another game plan?

Now, instead of practicing and getting better, we want to nerf the defense. Then offensive minded player will beat their chest like they're doing something, and tell defensive minded players to step their game up.

Hard to step your game up against sliding and getting handicapped...

[Nevertheles109]

Re: There is nothing wrong with the CPU on-ball defense. Here are some tips....

My contribution to this endless debate and why I believe defense is fine....a video with Anthony Davis blowing by Tim DuncAn and several more to come.

http://youtu.be/KsZ43vqNyH4

[ksuttonjr76]

Re: There is nothing wrong with the CPU on-ball defense. Here are some tips....

Some of you really baffle me. Folks who've brought this issue up (and are worth listening to) are talking about a very specific type of warping. In the videos that have been presented what's on display are instances where the CPU is CLEARLY BEATEN and still gets back in position. These cases don't include the incidental sliding that we all obviously know can't be eliminated from sports games at the moment. Again, what's being addressed are the extreme cases that have been exhibited with video a number of times in this thread.

Instead of addressing the animation, how about addressing the AI logic? Tell the AI that it was beaten, so it'll stop trying to get in front of the ball handler. The AI is doing what it's programmed to do, and that's stay in front of the ball handler. What's not coming across is the proper animations to reflect the situation.

Let me bump my other thread....

[Scofield]

Re: There is nothing wrong with the CPU on-ball defense. Here are some tips....

Chose my words very carefully... there are some people who are complaining who shouldn't be taken seriously. For whatever reason people don't seem to be able to filter them out. Let me say this for the THIRD time (at least). What the reasonable folks here are talking about for the most part are the recoveries where the CPU IS CLEARLY BEATEN. THAT'S IT. And if that can't be addressed without ruining D, then it should be left alone until such time as it can be.

[Scofield]

Re: There is nothing wrong with the CPU on-ball defense. Here are some tips....

Instead of addressing the animation, how about addressing the AI logic? Tell the AI that it was beaten, so it'll stop trying to get in front of the ball handler. The AI is doing what it's programmed to do, and that's stay in front of the ball handler. What's not coming across is the proper animations to reflect the situation.

Let me bump my other thread....

I agree with you sir.

[Hadlowe]

Re: There is nothing wrong with the CPU on-ball defense. Here are some tips....

Exactly! Like I said before, I'm going to trust 2K Sports, but my heart kinda sank after reading that tweet. I can understand working on the hitch, because that does have a DIRECT impact on the user's ability to get past the defender. However, I truly didn't believe that the "magnetic" defense was game breaking, especially when you had people like 24th posting videos after videos and giving great advice how to get past the CPU.

If they nerf the defense, defensive players are going to start complaining, because we won't be able to stay in front of the player or the ball handler is sliding off the defender like oil. Basically, we WON'T have a way to create contact to slow down or stop the ball handler from getting to the basket.

Then comes the side effects...players getting past defenders at will which create easy drive and kick situations, so now we're back to the ungodly amount of 3PT attempts. Then they'll start crying about not being able to hit wide open shots....aargh!

I might as well delete this game after the first patch. SMH, greatest game ever, but on it's way to becoming NBA 2K15 2.0.

The sky isn't falling, yet. Removing the hitch will help with a number of the problem instances. Most of those turbo drives will just result in getting stripped in the paint anyway.

I'm still on the fence about the sliding. The animation looks out of place in slow-mo replays, but I am still hesitant to see it go. I am becoming more certain that the sliding on drives is an anti-cheese measure and reflects a weakness in the animation engine. I have been able to replicate the sliding when doing left stick back and forth work across the top of the key and the wings, similar to the zig-zag cheese from 2k15. I have not been able to replicate the sliding after getting a defender out of position with sizeup dribble moves or a good pick.

[strawberryshortcake]

Re: There is nothing wrong with the CPU on-ball defense. Here are some tips....

My contribution to this endless debate and why I believe defense is fine....a video with Anthony Davis blowing by Tim DuncAn and several more to come.

http://youtu.be/KsZ43vqNyH4

Thank you for the video. Quick first step.

Chose my words very carefully... there are some people who are complaining who shouldn't be taken seriously. For whatever reason people don't seem to be able to filter them out. Let me say this for the THIRD time (at least). What the reasonable folks here are talking about for the most part are the recoveries where the CPU IS CLEARLY BEATEN. THAT'S IT. And if that can't be addressed without ruining D, then it should be left alone until such time as it can be.

That I will agree to.

[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: There is nothing wrong with the CPU on-ball defense. Here are some tips....

Overall the on ball D of slow and poor defenders needs to be tuned down slightly.

The help D needs lots of improvement.

[Sundown]

Re: There is nothing wrong with the CPU on-ball defense. Here are some tips....

Exactly! Like I said before, I'm going to trust 2K Sports, but my heart kinda sank after reading that tweet. I can understand working on the hitch, because that does have a DIRECT impact on the user's ability to get past the defender. However, I truly didn't believe that the "magnetic" defense was game breaking, especially when you had people like 24th posting videos after videos and giving great advice how to get past the CPU.

If they nerf the defense, defensive players are going to start complaining, because we won't be able to stay in front of the player or the ball handler is sliding off the defender like oil. Basically, we WON'T have a way to create contact to slow down or stop the ball handler from getting to the basket.

Then comes the side effects...players getting past defenders at will which create easy drive and kick situations, so now we're back to the ungodly amount of 3PT attempts. Then they'll start crying about not being able to hit wide open shots....aargh!

I might as well delete this game after the first patch. SMH, greatest game ever, but on it's way to becoming NBA 2K15 2.0.

Don't go chicken little man. It doesn't make much sense to applaud 2K for what you like but be paranoid about them fixing an obvious issue. It's the same people who's bringing you both so have a little faith. If the defense was THAT reliant on CPU warping where fixing it would break defense all-together, then the system was fundamentally flawed. I don't think it is. It's why it's good that it's being looked at early in the patch cycle where we can get further tuning and refinement.

If these beaten-warp-back-to-position instances were as rare as some folks think it is, then fixing it won't affect things much in the grand scheme. You can't simultaneously claim they're rare and yet claim that fixing them will break things. If they do actually happen much more often we might like to admit, then the AI needs to be tuned to not lose their man quite as often, and poor defenders should play back more to concede that they're poor defenders that need to room to react while conceding more shot and partial penetration opportunities.

I'm also glad to hear that the poor defenders will be tuned, hopefully by adjusting their physicality and behavior-- anyone interested in NBA sim authenticity would have to see this as a positive change. And if we're afraid of zig-zag cheese returning, the right way to resolve it isn't only with warping and excessive bump and crowd animations, but simulating why this isn't feasible in real life (through affecting the shot, handles, fatigue, focus, as well as defensive contact).

And of course any tuning of on-ball defense has to be matched with realistic tuning of help and rotation defense, which again, may have issues I think some of the over-effectiveness of poor defenders on ball was hiding.

[TheVet1978]

Re: There is nothing wrong with the CPU on-ball defense. Here are some tips....

CPU warping into position is a problem. Just because there are "arcadey" non-sim solutions (that I refuse to employ, unlike the OP) to overcome the problem, doesn't mean there isn't a problem.