Shot % Tweaks needed?

[iLLosophy]

Re: Shot % Tweaks needed?

I need to do research? How often to "wide open" shots go in on 2K as it currently stands? I am sure you have NO clue, haven't chartered ANYTHING, nor do you have at least a game's worth of WIDE OPEN attempts.

But you are screaming, raise it 33%. Raise it 33% from what, to what percentage?

But EYE need to do research? Yea aight

Look at the OP. In any of your objections to my post, have provided any of the requested information to back up your objection? No. Objecting just for the sake of objection = trolling.

I'm pretty sure Beluba know my post isn't based any type of empirical data. Nobody's post in here is. He asked to be as detailed as possible and that's what I'm doing. To be clear I said raise the # of OPEN 3pters green releases by 33%. That means if currently 18% of your open 3pters are green releases, then add 6% (18% * 33%), now making it 24% of your open 3pters.

My post is subjective and probably could be tweaked and refined - if you got suggestions based on logic and more information than I have, I'll listen to it. But I haven't seen any of that in responses to my post, which means this is just resorted to a bunch of trolling and whining.

For some of us who have a "balanced" player, we rely on mid-range to spread the floor since we can't hit the 3's at a high %. Nerfing the mid range creates a a severe imbalance to where the only effective players are short outside scoring guards and 7'3" inside scoring centers.

Although I agree with you about the balanced guards not being respectable from 3, that's a problem with the Max Caps in mycareer. Adjusting global shooting % to fix a problem with the Max Caps for specific players is going to create more problems than it'll fix. I think the same thing happened with the last patch in 2k15.

[xSouthWESTx]

Re: Shot % Tweaks needed?

Stop complaining about Ballers shooting thats what we Ballers do shoot. If they tone that down then they need to tone down the athlete/defense for Rivet and playmaking/passing for Old Town. Don't get mad cause you probably got burnt by a team from Sunset.

[ksuttonjr76]

Re: Shot % Tweaks needed?

IDK how people ever played on broadcast cam, its stupid to me. But to each his own.

Huh? I've played on that or variant of the camera angle, since the days of Lakers vs Celtic. It was never a "problem" for me. I had decided to give the 2K cam a try this year, because it seems like spacing and angles is way more important this year than it ever has been when compared to older titles.

[DC]

Re: Shot % Tweaks needed?

I'm pretty sure Beluba know my post isn't based any type of empirical data.

It should be based on hard facts though. Take a look at these numbers. These are for jumpshots taken when defenders are 5 feet away from the shooter.

For those that cry about the % in which "wide open" shots go in, take a look

http://nbasavant.com/shot_search.php?hfST=jump%7C&hfQ=&hfSZB=&hfSZA=&hfSZR=&ddlYear=2014&txtGameDateGT=&txtGameDateLT=&ddlGameTimeGT_min=&ddlGameTimeGT_sec=&ddlGameTimeLT_min=&ddlGameTimeLT_sec=&ddlShotClockGT=&ddlShotClockLT=&ddlDefDistanceGT=&ddlDefDistanceLT=5&ddlDribblesGT=&ddlDribblesLT=&ddlTouchTimeGT=&ddlTouchTimeLT=&ddlShotDistanceGT=&ddlShotDistanceLT=&ddlTeamShooting=&ddlTeamDefense=&hfPT=&ddlGroupBy=player&ddlOrderBy=shots_made_desc&hfGT=0%7C&ddlShotMade=&ddlMin=0#results

[iLLosophy]

Re: Shot % Tweaks needed?

It should be based on hard facts though. Take a look at these numbers. These are for jumpshots taken when defenders are 5 feet away from the shooter.

For those that cry about the % in which "wide open" shots go in, take a look

http://nbasavant.com/shot_search.php...lMin=0#results

I'm not disagreeing with you. I would love a hardcore 2k guy to do a deep dive and come back with something like this for 2k. As with both agreed on, i'm not that guy lol.

There there's millions...possibly billions of dollars going into quantifying NBA with stats. But with 2k, most of us aren't going to be able to create a respectable sample size in order to have any level of objectivity. I'm guessing that's why Beluba is asking for feedback due to the overwhelming effort it would take to try do to this in house, even with all the tools at their disposal.

[DC]

Re: Shot % Tweaks needed?

My initial issue was when it was said there needed to be a 33% increase to open shots when there isn't even knowledge of what the baseline data of open shots in the game were. (Per each user)

[iLLosophy]

Re: Shot % Tweaks needed?

My initial issue was when it was said there needed to be a 33% increase to open shots when there isn't even knowledge of what the baseline data of open shots in the game were. (Per each user)

Fair point. I just figured "33% increase in green release frequency" was better than just saying "Threes Need to be higher!" But it's in no way based on any type of objective information, just my personal experience.

And another reason - a lot of guys I play with use the green release as a way to know if they took a good shot. So the symbolism and positive reinforcement helps as well...

[Caelumfang]

Re: Shot % Tweaks needed?

I think the initial release shooting % was perfect. Open mid-range jumpers were very high (as it should be) while 3pt shots were in the 30-40% range. All of a sudden, mid-range is inconsistent but 3pt shots are seemingly going back into the 2K15 patch 4 percentages. NO!

I'm mainly a pro-am player and I see a lot of contested 3pt shots going in while good looks from mid-range rattle out. Also, lightly contested layups are inconsistent even with high inside scoring.

For some of us who have a "balanced" player, we rely on mid-range to spread the floor since we can't hit the 3's at a high %. Nerfing the mid range creates a a severe imbalance to where the only effective players are short outside scoring guards and 7'3" inside scoring centers.

This is what I've been saying since the first shooting tuning happened. Dropping the midrange shot that severely pretty much broke Balanced style players. It got so bad that I straight up deleted my balanced SG and remade an outside SG.

[jaateloauto]

Re: Shot % Tweaks needed?

Seems only time you should be shooting 3pt is if you have a floor general on the floor and you just received a pass from a dimer.

It should be based on hard facts though. Take a look at these numbers. These are for jumpshots taken when defenders are 5 feet away from the shooter.

For those that cry about the % in which "wide open" shots go in, take a look

http://nbasavant.com/shot_search.php...lMin=0#results

Here's a link on 3pt attempts: http://nbasavant.com/shot_search.php...Min=50#results

Couple of things about those percentages. First off they're still higher than what I'm getting from the 3pt line. I'm usually shooting about 30% from deep taking only wide open shots. The second point is that while that percentage is somewhat realistic taking a 3pt shot isn't worth it when all the other shots I take go in a much higher percentage than in real life. If layups and open mid range shots weren't automatic and defense would actually get back to position on the fast break things would be a bit different.

[hanzsomehanz]

Re: Shot % Tweaks needed?

NBA play on 12 min QTRS and stats usually come from stars and starters who have significant volume to pool.

2K we play on 5 min QTRS or Park and stats are on a much smaller sample size for opportunities.

Success and Failure are a much different concequence in both arenas.

I'm okay with 3s here and am fine if they stay here - I rather fear the open 3 than have no fear regardless of the shooter.

Perfect Release middys were too prevalent even for someone with 70 mid range. If middys go back to their original success: I will have no need to upgrade my jump shot bars because I can still shoot decent from 3 with a 67 albeit I have gold badges that help support this performance.

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[jeebs9]

Re: Shot % Tweaks needed?

Why would anyone even take that online lol

Edit : then again I say that for a lot of shots ppl take

I did it after heaing about rondo making 3's. So I wanted to try it out.

[hanzsomehanz]

Re: Shot % Tweaks needed?

5ft is considered wide open? With these wingspan I wouldn't consider 5ft to be wide open - 5ft is still within a contested radius.

5ft is that deadeye zone.

http://nbasavant.com/shot_search.php?hfST=22%7C&hfQ=&hfSZB=&hfSZA=&hfSZR=&ddlYear=2014&txtGameDateGT=&txtGameDateLT=&ddlGameTimeGT_min=&ddlGameTimeGT_sec=&ddlGameTimeLT_min=&ddlGameTimeLT_sec=&ddlShotClockGT=&ddlShotClockLT=&ddlDefDistanceGT=&ddlDefDistanceLT=5&ddlDribblesGT=&ddlDribblesLT=&ddlTouchTimeGT=&ddlTouchTimeLT=&ddlShotDistanceGT=&ddlShotDistanceLT=&ddlTeamShooting=&ddlTeamDefense=&hfPT=&ddlGroupBy=player&ddlOrderBy=field_goal_desc&hfGT=0%7C&ddlShotMade=&ddlMin=0#results

Westbrook went 79 on 387 attempts - pure jump shots with 5ft or more distance.

A lot of folks struggle in this zone for standard jump shots.



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[OG_Almighty]

Re: Shot % Tweaks needed?

This is what I've been saying since the first shooting tuning happened. Dropping the midrange shot that severely pretty much broke Balanced style players. It got so bad that I straight up deleted my balanced SG and remade an outside SG.

This is the only fix that I HATE from 2K. Why would you nerf the mid-range off of two weeks of people complaining yet increase the 3pt % for the whiners/cheesers who ruined 2K15 with unbalanced 3pt shooting.

Mid-range needs to be fixed and 3pt need to return or stay at 30-40%. Whats the current % that these were tweaked to? Whatever the settings we on release, that was perfect.

P.S. Mostly a Pro-Am player with a few stints in the park (and my career)

[Sundown]

Re: Shot % Tweaks needed?

This is the only fix that I HATE from 2K. Why would you nerf the mid-range off of two weeks of people complaining yet increase the 3pt % for the whiners/cheesers who ruined 2K15 with unbalanced 3pt shooting.

Mid-range needs to be fixed and 3pt need to return or stay at 30-40%. Whats the current % that these were tweaked to? Whatever the settings we on release, that was perfect.

P.S. Mostly a Pro-Am player with a few stints in the park (and my career)

Something's not "perfect" when everyone was taking midrange over lay ups and threes (completely backwards from the NBA) and midrange had a ridiculous amount of greens. That was just as unbalanced.

And even now you have people complaining that they can't make wide open shots with Curry. I think they probably have bad mechanics or habits, but the overpowered green release midrange a from release don't seem like the way to go. It does seem like layups need to be reduced again if the adjustment was across the board, as layups, and ones, and contact layups go in way too often offline, and seemingly online as well.

[DC]

Re: Shot % Tweaks needed?

Seems only time you should be shooting 3pt is if you have a floor general on the floor and you just received a pass from a dimer.

Here's a link on 3pt attempts: http://nbasavant.com/shot_search.php...Min=50#results

Couple of things about those percentages. First off they're still higher than what I'm getting from the 3pt line. I'm usually shooting about 30% from deep taking only wide open shots. The second point is that while that percentage is somewhat realistic taking a 3pt shot isn't worth it when all the other shots I take go in a much higher percentage than in real life. If layups and open mid range shots weren't automatic and defense would actually get back to position on the fast break things would be a bit different.

When/where did you chart your makes? Because again, what you FEEL like you are doing isn't the same as to what you are actually doing.

Do you have video evidence ?

Do you have charts tracking your wide open shot data?

Because you are making a blind guess right now by saying 30%

Yes it might be annoying that I am saying this but we can't make changes when there is NO supporting data