Offball needs to actually have a consequence

[Crossover1]

Re: Offball needs to actually have a consequence

I usually have a harder time scoring if it's someone who is really good at on ball defense, but otherwise I will just pick and roll you to death regardless of who you are controlling on defense.

I play off-ball pretty much 80% of the time with my center. I also see a lot of people intentionally going to their big to try scoring on me in the paint but I don't mind, especially if it's a non-dominant player. I love when people go out their way to attack who I'm controlling in iso situations because they think I will switch off.

This whole idea of telling people how to play the game is laughable. As long as you're not abusing the game's flaws (non-basketball strategy), you can do whatever it takes to win.

[itchyroll_51]

Re: Offball needs to actually have a consequence

How is playing a user who controls the back line as a Center not basketball ? 2K's AI on ball defense is actually pretty good, it's weakness comes from weakside defense and also big man defense during pick and rolls. I can argue that 2K defense can be played most like an actual basketball defense when a user controls the C. When a user is off balling as Center he can actually carry out proper PnR defensive schemes vs a user who on balls and lets AI do the off ball PnR defense.

AI off ball defense is sooooo easy to beat in this game is laughable at times. To me your best bet to something that resmebles a proper basketball defense on 2K is actually when the other guy goes off ball as the C. I am curious as to hear why you would think otherwise ? The Funnest 2K defense to break and play against is vs a guy who is great off ball and goes on ball at the right times. 100% on ball is asking to get destroyed by flushes and Katana cuts.

Sam Pham

[Crossover1]

Re: Offball needs to actually have a consequence

How is playing a user who controls the back line as a Center not basketball ? 2K's AI on ball defense is actually pretty good, it's weakness comes from weakside defense and also big man defense during pick and rolls. I can argue that 2K defense can be played most like an actual basketball defense when a user controls the C. When a user is off balling as Center he can actually carry out proper PnR defensive schemes vs a user who on balls and lets AI do the off ball PnR defense.

AI off ball defense is sooooo easy to beat in this game is laughable at times. To me your best bet to something that resmebles a proper basketball defense on 2K is actually when the other guy goes off ball as the C. I am curious as to hear why you would think otherwise ? The Funnest 2K defense to break and play against is vs a guy who is great off ball and goes on ball at the right times. 100% on ball is asking to get destroyed by flushes and Katana cuts.

Sam Pham

Without trying to boast, this is 100% me which is why my record is what it is. Sometimes I get caught up in guys messaging me about me playing offball, so then I try on ball strictly only for them to backdoor my bigs for dunks or for them to iso the entire possession until they slip by me with slow rotations that lead to easy points. EVERY POSSESSION.

My goal is always to protect the paint because that is how I've always learned to play defense and because everyone is Nash with the passes and Stoudemire with the roll man. The CPU does a terrible job at playing positional off-ball defense and the engine struggles with impeding cutters, which is why the lead pass button is devastating to defend. They could easily use the same method they use to prevent alley oops but that technique is already a bad workaround itself.

I only switch to guard the perimiter if I see my opponent trying to abuse the post drive/spin or when there's about 5 seconds left on the shot clock/end of game because they will most likely try to pump fake to draw a shooting foul which I will not bail you out with.

[Philbin]

Offball needs to actually have a consequence

That's what I'm saying Sam. I consider it laughable. You and I both know it's an algorithm to beat the computer on superstar sim. I'm not only playing to win. That part usually isn't too tough especially if they're off balling. I want to play against a user who is using his thumbs to guess my movements with the ball. Not a computer who I know how to beat.

(I understand off ball is necessary AT TIMES if kids are trying to run back door cuts or money plays every single play but it's not necessary to play as the center the whole game no matter what. Let's not be delusional)

I don't want to know I can beat the computer off the dribble with a certain move every time or know I can run a pick and roll or fade for whoever they're off balling. I want to play people who change settings and man up. Harder to play against and a lot more fun.


And considering how "sim" playing with the center is how come every big sim my league period pretty much says no off ball the full game....


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[2_headedmonster]

Re: Offball needs to actually have a consequence

That's what I'm saying Sam. I consider it laughable. You and I both know it's an algorithm to beat the computer on superstar sim. I'm not only playing to win. That part usually isn't too tough especially if they're off balling. I want to play against a user who is using his thumbs to guess my movements with the ball. Not a computer who I know how to beat.

(I understand off ball is necessary AT TIMES if kids are trying to run back door cuts or money plays every single play but it's not necessary to play as the center the whole game no matter what. Let's not be delusional)

I don't want to know I can beat the computer off the dribble with a certain move every time or know I can run a pick and roll or fade for whoever they're off balling. I want to play people who change settings and man up. Harder to play against and a lot more fun.


And considering how "sim" playing with the center how come every big sim my league period pretty much says no off ball the full game....


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because they are like-minded individuals....does not make their way right or law. You are never going to stop people from playing how they want, you have many modes where you can play 100% user on user....so whats your objective?

[Philbin]

Offball needs to actually have a consequence

because they are like-minded individuals....does not make their way right or law. You are never going to stop people from playing how they want, you have many modes where you can play 100% user on user....so whats your objective?

No ones saying its law. I'm expressing that it's considered cheesy by people who want to play at a simulation level and who have for years and years in most cases.

The problem is that play now online mode is completely ruined for the most part if you're looking to have any sort of enjoyable experience. It's blow outs against off ball users, rage quits and 1 in maybe 5 at this point that is an on ball used I enjoy playing with that challenges me or anyone who can operate their thumbs with basketball knowledge. That's the point. You can justify however you want to play just know it's taking advantage of how a game operates against weaker players and against stronger ones just making it a nuisance to play against you.

All I was expressing is that this way of playing is incredibly sad and hard to justify and you keep bringing it back to its not law. No one is saying that bud. It also isn't law that I can't run inside with James harden or whoever and hop step every play and if you don't bite pump fake until you jump and draw a foul. Then pass it out whenever you bring help. Doesn't make it any less of a little child's way of playing.




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[TheDuggler]

Re: Offball needs to actually have a consequence

I usually play on-ball, but I have switched to long stints of off-ball D when it becomes clear the CPU can't handle whatever my opponent is doing.

Sometimes I have to keep guys pinned to other guys off the ball or else they will be left open for no reason a lot of the time.


If you are having issues with people camping passing lanes off-ball, I really don't know what to tell you. Those are the easiest opponents to beat because they have almost no control over anything but that one spot on the court.

[Philbin]

Offball needs to actually have a consequence

I usually play on-ball, but I have switched to long stints of off-ball D when it becomes clear the CPU can't handle whatever my opponent is doing.



Sometimes I have to keep guys pinned to other guys off the ball or else they will be left open for no reason a lot of the time.





If you are having issues with people camping passing lanes off-ball, I really don't know what to tell you. Those are the easiest opponents to beat because they have almost no control over anything but that one spot on the court.

Not everyone just wants an easy opponent to beat almost 80-90% of the time in play now is what I think some of you are missing . Some people want to play a realistic basketball experience more than they care about the final outcome of the game.

Doesn't mean no off ball. It means a majority of the time by far you should be on ball and that's just not how it is a majority of the time and its stale and there should be some other sort of punishment if the original computer contests don't count for as much has been eliminated by people pressing a and then putting the right stick up when a shot goes up....

Also don't forget off ball all game hurts casuals who are trying to get into 2k. A lot of people find the AI much harder to get by for a while and they themselves don't think about off ball hence lots of complaints from casuals about offense being "too hard". So it's chasing away any newcomers for the 2k series and pissing off anyone who wants any sort of competitive game.




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[2_headedmonster]

Re: Offball needs to actually have a consequence

No ones saying its law. I'm expressing that it's considered cheesy by people who want to play at a simulation level and who have for years and years in most cases.

The problem is that play now online mode is completely ruined for the most part if you're looking to have any sort of enjoyable experience. It's blow outs against off ball users, rage quits and 1 in maybe 5 at this point that is an on ball used I enjoy playing with that challenges me or anyone who can operate their thumbs with basketball knowledge. That's the point. You can justify however you want to play just know it's taking advantage of how a game operates against weaker players and against stronger ones just making it a nuisance to play against you.

All I was expressing is that this way of playing is incredibly sad and hard to justify and you keep bringing it back to its not law. No one is saying that bud. It also isn't law that I can't run inside with James harden or whoever and hop step every play and if you don't bite pump fake until you jump and draw a foul. Then pass it out whenever you bring help. Doesn't make it any less of a little child's way of playing.




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awfully presumptive...

you claim you aren't saying anything is law, but speak in so many absolutes.

[BezO]

Re: Offball needs to actually have a consequence

So you think if a majority of people who play single game online are using off ball and it's usually the same ones sprinting straight with Westbrook aren't doing it because it's easier than on ball?

It's only easier if the opponent doesn't know how or want to force them to be active off-ball. So, if you're always ios-ing, then yes, it's easier playing off-ball. If you're running plays, relying on sets and action, running p&r, sending teammates on cuts, no, it's not easier.

[Philbin]

Offball needs to actually have a consequence

awfully presumptive...



you claim you aren't saying anything is law, but speak in so many absolutes.

Find me a sim league that allows off ball all game. Please.


And bezos sorry not even gonna address your post. Look at past responses. Easy isn't the goal.

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[BezO]

Re: Offball needs to actually have a consequence

Find me a sim league that allows off ball all game. Please.


And bezos sorry not even gonna address your post. Look at past responses. Easy isn't the goal.

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philbins, sorry, never said easy was the goal. Read again.

[Philbin]

Re: Offball needs to actually have a consequence

philbins, sorry, never said easy was the goal. Read again.

My bad. People that just start the 2k series aren't gonna use y-cuts and sets let's be real. They're gonna try to win on isos and maybe picks. More a frustration and annoyance to anyone who's played 2k a while who's looking for a realistic, immersive basketball experience.


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[2_headedmonster]

Re: Offball needs to actually have a consequence

I couldn't care less about Sim Leagues.

you say "I'm expressing that it's considered cheesy by people who want to play at a simulation level"

false.... many people who want to play sim have said off-ball isnt an issue.

"The problem is that play now online mode is completely ruined for the most part if you're looking to have any sort of enjoyable experience."

theres a zillion page thread titled "Im absolutely loving play now online" ...soooo thats false as well.

"You can justify however you want to play just know it's taking advantage of how a game operates "

lmmfao hoooooow? does off-ball give super powers?


bottom line is you're pouting because people wont play your way...

[BezO]

Re: Offball needs to actually have a consequence

My bad. People that just start the 2k series aren't gonna use y-cuts and sets let's be real. They're gonna try to win on isos and maybe picks. More a frustration and annoyance to anyone who's played 2k a while who's looking for a realistic, immersive basketball experience.

A person looking to iso their opponent all game is not looking for a realistic experience. Can't have it both ways.

The gamer that is looking for a realistic experience is relying on sets, action, running plays, p&r, sending teeamates on cuts, etc. And doing those things makes off-ball D a non-factor at best, detrimental at worst.

If off-ball D is bothering you, maybe it's your style that needs to change. Or you could just stick to playing like minded people.