Mike Wang Explains the Art of Perfecting Your Jumper in NBA 2K16

[hanzsomehanz]

Re: Mike Wang Explains the Art of Perfecting Your Jumper in NBA 2K16

Nah, we are not requesting all open shots from wide open position or from ball movement should equal = successful make.

The NBA is playing on 12 minute quarters with more room for error. We are playing on 6 minutes online and even less time in Park: we have little chances afforded to recover and respond from open misses.

In Park and Online Play: we need the defense to pay at a higher rate than simulated NBA games. The spacing on Pro Am is such that it's hard enough for perimeter players to be successful in the paint in a half court set.

If the release is clean and the player is not cold: yes, the shooter should not be clanking repeatedly on open looks. It simply should not be happening - not in such a condensed scale for minutes played.

In Park, I'm afforded about 3 or 4 shots per game as a G and a premier guard at that meaning I handle the ball probably the most in each park game. In Pro Am I'm looking at at least 9 attempts per game +/- 3 give or take on average.

My point is: the punishment on open shots is very severe. The algorithm is not simulated well at all - it's very generic as if programmed on a lazy scale rather than a professional scale for Pro Am and Online.

Now, in Park, I have a very hard time going 0-3 on open looks... this is just shameful and appalling. I am not cold and I have the stats and experienced jumpshot to boot that should merit me the makes but the rim simply refuses to accept my shot as a make.

If the defender or team defense is legitimately disturbing my defense by various ways such as draining my energy with physical play, contesting consistently, forcing turnovers: by all means : reward that team and that defense and punish me. If however I am literally bring given oceans of space AND I and demonstrating a clean release: please reward me for my efforts! I'm not asking for greens or 100% rates but again if the circumstances support a make and so do my actions: please justify that and compel the defender and team to strip up and adjust.

0-3 on open looks with no hindrance to rhythm should warrant makes by outside scorers or anyone with 80+ shooting who demonstrate that they know their release. And the kicker? I can make half court shots in Park to win games without being hot or using park cards but next game I can go 0 for 3 from wide open? On looks that should be as easy as throwing a rock into an ocean?

It's getting to the point that so much is simply overriden by virtue of simulating off games. 2k, we are not following an NBA calendar in Park or Pro Am or Online Play - we are not following practice schedules and off days. Unless I am cold by virtue of great defensive play and sloppy offensive play: me nor my opponent should be suffering off games in these modes.

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[jeebs9]

Re: Mike Wang Explains the Art of Perfecting Your Jumper in NBA 2K16

That's what you're not getting. Not one of us is asking for every open look to fall. We know that. We're asking to not have our shooting switch shut completely off, as in bricking 5/6/7 wide open looks IN A ROW, just because some mechanic that Mike Wang talked about at the beginning of 2k16 decided it wanted to activate out of nowhere.

Ball movement should also matter when it moves to the open shooter, which ch should not be predetermined by the mythical pass number.

Like, seriously, you really don't think anything is wrong when you can sometimes go 3-15, 5-17, 2-16 etc on shots where your defender is literally disrespecting you and actually walking off of you? And I can already see you're gonna repeat the whole 'move the ball' speech. To who? Especially if your defender is literally ball chasing and double-teaming everyone else on the team? Guess the shooter who had his switch turned off should just be a backdrop, right?

Yea man... Your tone isn't something I'd reply back to anyway. Just trying to have a simple debate. Like I said. I'll answer the other tomorrow.

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[hanzsomehanz]

Re: Mike Wang Explains the Art of Perfecting Your Jumper in NBA 2K16

That's what you're not getting. Not one of us is asking for every open look to fall. We know that. We're asking to not have our shooting switch shut completely off, as in bricking 5/6/7 wide open looks IN A ROW, just because some mechanic that Mike Wang talked about at the beginning of 2k16 decided it wanted to activate out of nowhere.

Ball movement should also matter when it moves to the open shooter, which ch should not be predetermined by the mythical pass number.

Like, seriously, you really don't think anything is wrong when you can sometimes go 3-15, 5-17, 2-16 etc on shots where your defender is literally disrespecting you and actually walking off of you? And I can already see you're gonna repeat the whole 'move the ball' speech. To who? Especially if your defender is literally ball chasing and double-teaming everyone else on the team? Guess the shooter who had his switch turned off should just be a backdrop, right?

I have some facts to share that address the mythic bias towards ball movement = more success. Nah, there is a report that discloses how there is such a thing as too much ball movement.

Your best chance,simply put, in the NBA is off a quick catch and shoot either in transition our out of a set. And of course: the corner 3 is that money opportunity for all teams.

I'm with you Cael

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[hanzsomehanz]

Re: Mike Wang Explains the Art of Perfecting Your Jumper in NBA 2K16

http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2014/10/16/measuring-ball-and-player-movement/

There is no correlation between ball movement and offensive efficiency. Three top-10 offenses — Oklahoma City, Phoenix and Toronto — ranked in the bottom 10 in ball movement (passes per minute in half-court possessions). And five bottom-10 offenses — Philadelphia, Milwaukee, Utah, Charlotte and the Lakers — ranked in the top 10.

- Let's not forget the success the Suns 6s quick pacd offense had either. The Spurs are as unique as that Suns squad albeit still polar opposite. Curry and Korver, Kerr and Reggie Miller, all are 3pt lords but all use different means to their ends and all possess a unique shooting mastery.

This 5 pass to score mantra is hogwash and is more prevalent in high school and college when facing zone defense.

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[Rockie_Fresh88]

Re: Mike Wang Explains the Art of Perfecting Your Jumper in NBA 2K16

I totally understand what your saying. Open shot = Going in. But could you imagine a formula like that. That's what we had last year. And that's not championships basketball. The last 3-5 teams that have won. Have crazy ball movement. Not isoing or one man teams. Those days are gone. Not even Jordan was like that. The Bulls moved the ball around. I'm going to post some videos tomorrow

Oh I 100% agree. and moving the ball has gotten my squad nearly 300 pro am wins. It's just when I'm in a rut I have a chip on my shoulder. I admit I might start jacking more shots than usual just to prove I can hit a jumper

[bottledwaterfan25]

Re: Mike Wang Explains the Art of Perfecting Your Jumper in NBA 2K16

The 5 pass rule that keeps getting brought up has absolutely NOTHING to do with the success rate of an open jumper; it is a tip that 2k offered to help out the clueless noobs that ball hog, and don't understand the game of basketball very well. some people just don't get it. An open shot is an open shot; it does not matter if it takes 1 pass, or 19 passes to find the open shooter. When a good shooter is wide open, with a good release, shots should be falling at a higher rate than they currently are.

By the way, I am speaking from the prospective of being an avid pro-am player, as well as play now online, and myteam. With online games being much shorter than the standard 12 minute quarter games, it is crucial to capitalize on every single opening your opponent gives you. I feel as though right now those wide open opportunities are not being rewarded at a fair rate.

I'm not asking for much, I don't want every shot to fall, I'm just tired of those random games where 2k has me shooting like 2016 Kobe, when I'm really more like KD.

[EveretteWarren]

Re: Mike Wang Explains the Art of Perfecting Your Jumper in NBA 2K16

Honestly, I'm so inconsistent with shooting in Park this year and I've been getting annoyed. A lot of you might disagree or whatever, but I wouldn't mind if park was like 2k15 before Patch 3. Definetly before patch 4. I understand that you won't make every shot. But come on now, I'm missing wide open midranges (89 mid) too much. I have another guy that has a 94 and is missing wide open midranges too.

[ataman5]

Re: Mike Wang Explains the Art of Perfecting Your Jumper in NBA 2K16

I used to take shots as quickly as possible with my players if I was wide open. Now I wait a half a second and then take a shot. 'To calm my player down'. You see it happen all the time IRL.

First passing and sharing the ball will definitely increase the % of the shots made.
Second to add what you and others implied is you can either calm or chain shooting with what you do in terms of dribling combos, fake or advance shooting which i call taking one more step b4 shot which i freaking love in this game. You don't see players taking spot up shots even they are set to shoot they move either with fake, chest or foot(size-up) b4 taking shots and yes they also move even they are wide open bcs it's a rituel thing taking shots, you can think of Kg taking one more step b4 midrange etc etc.


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[jeebs9]

Re: Mike Wang Explains the Art of Perfecting Your Jumper in NBA 2K16

Honestly, I'm so inconsistent with shooting in Park this year and I've been getting annoyed. A lot of you might disagree or whatever, but I wouldn't mind if park was like 2k15 before Patch 3. Definetly before patch 4. I understand that you won't make every shot. But come on now, I'm missing wide open midranges (89 mid) too much. I have another guy that has a 94 and is missing wide open midranges too.

The 5 pass rule that keeps getting brought up has absolutely NOTHING to do with the success rate of an open jumper; it is a tip that 2k offered to help out the clueless noobs that ball hog, and don't understand the game of basketball very well. some people just don't get it. An open shot is an open shot; it does not matter if it takes 1 pass, or 19 passes to find the open shooter. When a good shooter is wide open, with a good release, shots should be falling at a higher rate than they currently are.

By the way, I am speaking from the prospective of being an avid pro-am player, as well as play now online, and myteam. With online games being much shorter than the standard 12 minute quarter games, it is crucial to capitalize on every single opening your opponent gives you. I feel as though right now those wide open opportunities are not being rewarded at a fair rate.

I'm not asking for much, I don't want every shot to fall, I'm just tired of those random games where 2k has me shooting like 2016 Kobe, when I'm really more like KD.

That's what you're not getting. Not one of us is asking for every open look to fall. We know that. We're asking to not have our shooting switch shut completely off, as in bricking 5/6/7 wide open looks IN A ROW, just because some mechanic that Mike Wang talked about at the beginning of 2k16 decided it wanted to activate out of nowhere.

Ball movement should also matter when it moves to the open shooter, which ch should not be predetermined by the mythical pass number.

Like, seriously, you really don't think anything is wrong when you can sometimes go 3-15, 5-17, 2-16 etc on shots where your defender is literally disrespecting you and actually walking off of you? And I can already see you're gonna repeat the whole 'move the ball' speech. To who? Especially if your defender is literally ball chasing and double-teaming everyone else on the team? Guess the shooter who had his switch turned off should just be a backdrop, right?

Let ask all of you. And anyone else that would like to answer this question.

What formula do you propose?
Open shots going in more
Open shots after one pass
Open shot after a build up
Perfect release = shot goes in
Do you have a new idea for shooting?

I really would like to see what people's answer are. Because it seems like you guys want this ball hog environment. I think the 5 pass rule is like someone said already to promote passing the ball around is more successful then getting the one shot = going in. And I understand the whole my opponent is leaving my player wide open. But like I said I've notice that if you wait a few counts. The shot will go down. Especially when wide open. Didn't get a chance to post the videos from my PS4. But I did find some videos of old games.

https://youtu.be/mMfcVfHdQ9Y?t=57s

I could of pulled the trigger with Thabo. But I don't. I get a even better shot. To a wide open Kyle. Swish....

https://youtu.be/mMfcVfHdQ9Y?t=4m32s

Now look at this shot. Quick Side Fade 3.... I've called this play in many different modes and sliders in this game. But I can't hit that shot with Kyle or any other great shooter in this game. I with you guys. I shouldn't miss this shot. My opponent has a weak basketball IQ and defense. I'm pretty sure if I waited just like the video above the shot would of gone down. But because of the situation. I was rushing.

I understand the beef here. Like I said I like the current way it is.

Edit: I really think no matter what game mode your playing. If your wide open after one pass. Don't rush to shoot the ball. I think it's the right way to go.

[Vroman]

Re: Mike Wang Explains the Art of Perfecting Your Jumper in NBA 2K16

You missed those shots because Protected shot animation triggered instead his natural jumpshot form. It happens when player catch and shoot a pass going from his weak hand side and shot% of that animation is not good.

[13CB55]

Re: Mike Wang Explains the Art of Perfecting Your Jumper in NBA 2K16

Let ask all of you. And anyone else that would like to answer this question.

What formula do you propose?
Open shots going in more
Open shots after one pass
Open shot after a build up
Perfect release = shot goes in
Do you have a new idea for shooting?

If there is a Pick and Pop play perfectly executed and leads to an wide open mid range spot up shot by a guy with all shooting badges, 85+ midrange rating, screen outlet and a ballhandler with dimer, the shot should go in at a very high rate.

Why should there be a 2nd, 3rd, 4th or even 5th pass? It doesnt make sense. The play was already perfectly run.

Same is true for a wide open middy or corner 3 with a dimer pass, after the defender tried for the 10th time to steal the inbound pass.

And the "5 passes rule" is so often overuled by 15+ seconds iso chaindribbling, resulting in a green release shot, anyways.

They could start again draining more stamina for excessive chaindribbling (resulting in a temporary rating penalty), this would encourage more passing without really punishing well run plays with no or just one pass.

And for park, even so I know I deal with a more arcadish game here - I hate so see fully contested fade away shooting animations with green bar defense go in and missing wide open shots, after a dimer pass nonetheless, on the other side - even when im the one on the lucky side.

I understand and completely agree that we see all this happening in the NBA on a daily basis but in an online game (no matter ifquick match, Pro Am or Park) I can only influenece so much and if I do my part as perfect as it can be done, the luck factor should be really small.
And if I completely fail on defense by reaching, beeing out of position or just cause the other guy is way better I should be punished.

[jeebs9]

Re: Mike Wang Explains the Art of Perfecting Your Jumper in NBA 2K16

If there is a Pick and Pop play perfectly executed and leads to an wide open mid range spot up shot by a guy with all shooting badges, 85+ midrange rating, screen outlet and a ballhandler with dimer, the shot should go in at a very high rate.

Why should there be a 2nd, 3rd, 4th or even 5th pass? It doesnt make sense. The play was already perfectly run.

Same is true for a wide open middy or corner 3 with a dimer pass, after the defender tried for the 10th time to steal the inbound pass.

And the "5 passes rule" is so often overuled by 15+ seconds iso chaindribbling, resulting in a green release shot, anyways.

They could start again draining more stamina for excessive chaindribbling (resulting in a temporary rating penalty), this would encourage more passing without really punishing well run plays with no or just one pass.

And for park, even so I know I deal with a more arcadish game here - I hate so see fully contested fade away shooting animations with green bar defense go in and missing wide open shots, after a dimer pass nonetheless, on the other side - even when im the one on the lucky side.

I understand and completely agree that we see all this happening in the NBA on a daily basis but in an online game (no matter ifquick match, Pro Am or Park) I can only influenece so much and if I do my part as perfect as it can be done, the luck factor should be really small.
And if I completely fail on defense by reaching, beeing out of position or just cause the other guy is way better I should be punished.

I think this thread is getting too caught up in the "5 pass rule". I think when whoever said that was trying to say rhythm. It's not about the amount of passes. But the build up and being patient.

I personal think it adds an extra level of skill. Yea the person who iso's all day is going to get a good shot. But eventually it's not going to result in quality shots.

But like I said in the post I quoted. What do you propose they do for the next 2k?

Because I hear a lot of complaining. But no solutions being thrown out here. I already said one that works very well. When your wide open on a jumper with a good shooter. Just take a few counts before shooting it.

[Caelumfang]

Re: Mike Wang Explains the Art of Perfecting Your Jumper in NBA 2K16

Let ask all of you. And anyone else that would like to answer this question.

What formula do you propose?
Open shots going in more
Open shots after one pass
Open shot after a build up
Perfect release = shot goes in
Do you have a new idea for shooting?

I really would like to see what people's answer are. Because it seems like you guys want this ball hog environment. I think the 5 pass rule is like someone said already to promote passing the ball around is more successful then getting the one shot = going in. And I understand the whole my opponent is leaving my player wide open. But like I said I've notice that if you wait a few counts. The shot will go down. Especially when wide open. Didn't get a chance to post the videos from my PS4. But I did find some videos of old games.

https://youtu.be/mMfcVfHdQ9Y?t=57s

I could of pulled the trigger with Thabo. But I don't. I get a even better shot. To a wide open Kyle. Swish....

https://youtu.be/mMfcVfHdQ9Y?t=4m32s

Now look at this shot. Quick Side Fade 3.... I've called this play in many different modes and sliders in this game. But I can't hit that shot with Kyle or any other great shooter in this game. I with you guys. I shouldn't miss this shot. My opponent has a weak basketball IQ and defense. I'm pretty sure if I waited just like the video above the shot would of gone down. But because of the situation. I was rushing.

I understand the beef here. Like I said I like the current way it is.

Edit: I really think no matter what game mode your playing. If your wide open after one pass. Don't rush to shoot the ball. I think it's the right way to go.

Where are you getting this 'ball hog environment' thing from?

I propose a system that manages a hot/cold system that is more tailored towards rewarding the player for what he does on the court, not a system that randomly chooses whether to turn a player's shot on or off.

Sprinting around with turbo like an idiot? Shot success and ball handling should drop based on fatigue.
Not playing defense? Your defense AND offense should be affected over time. If you can't play defense, you shouldn't be allowed to play offense, either.
Finding open spots on the court and shooting in rhythm? You should be rewarded with more makes than misses.
3s are perfectly fine.
Midranges need a buff.
Open shots should be rewarded more than close-out shots.
Perfect releases are fine.

Number of passes should have no bearing on shot success. If I hit an open shooter with high shooting attributes after a single pass, he shouldn't have to debate with himself if 'the correct number of passes' criteria was met or not. Even if a shooter starts out missing his first couple of shots, if he is continuously left wide open, the game should be able to recognize that and allow the shooter to build a confidence and rhythm based simply off that. There should be no random algorithm that chooses whether your player goes hot or cold, period.

Catching and shooting 'in rhythm' should not entail the recipient to have to 'wait a tic or so' before shooting the ball. That 'tic', especially when you're playing 5 humans vs 5 humans can result in a defender realizing what's going on and closing out with just enough speed to affect the shot. Waiting that extra 'tic' in that fast paced environment can make or break the shot attempt. It's called "Catch and Shoot", not "Catch, Wait and Shoot." My solution? Bring back the Catch and Shoot badge. If you don't have it, by all means, wait 20 seconds to shoot if you want.

[13CB55]

Re: Mike Wang Explains the Art of Perfecting Your Jumper in NBA 2K16

But like I said in the post I quoted. What do you propose they do for the next 2k?

My main complaint with shooting right now is the low success of wide open spot up shots.
And my solution is easy - bring back the "Catch and Shoot" badge from 2k14.

[nova91]

Re: Mike Wang Explains the Art of Perfecting Your Jumper in NBA 2K16

I just had Kawhy Leonard miss 2 straight WIDE OPEN threes. What did I make? An off-balance three with Kobe who has 65 standing 3pter and Kawhi was in my face. Next posessions? Pull-up three in transition with Russell. It happens to both CPU and you. You just notice the bad stuff.

I notice when my team gets shots like that to go down because I'm usually thinking "It's about damn time I got one of those." But because I don't let my team make a habit of taking those shots like the opposing CPU does for the majority of the game I don't particularly care about those shots going in my favor. What I do care about is the CPU disregarding all of the arbitrary rules to get a decent shot percentage you guys are throwing out here and consistently knocking down trash shots while I work to get my teammates open shots and they go 7-22. No one is gonna give a player(Kaminsky) that is shooting 48%(101-211) from 3, 9 feet of space and expect him to consistently miss but that is what happens.