Timeout Menu is horrible

[Tyronesaurus95]

Re: Timeout Menu is horrible

Hope the timeout system is fixed. Obviously when I make subs during the timeout, I want those players in right away, not when the next dead ball occurs, which could be a min or so later.

[thormessiah]

Re: Timeout Menu is horrible

@10:05 to 10:12. "It's only going to last for a couple of possession and then ACE takes over"

@10:15 - 10:30 "If you want to be in control at all times, you'll need to turn ACE off"

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/VZvFJS4drUg" allowfullscreen="" width="560" frameborder="0" height="315"></iframe>

Not true because I turn ACE off before the start of each game and still get the default POEs after a few minutes.

[Hustle Westbrook]

Re: Timeout Menu is horrible

@10:05 to 10:12. "It's only going to last for a couple of possession and then ACE takes over"

@10:15 - 10:30 "If you want to be in control at all times, you'll need to turn ACE off"

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/VZvFJS4drUg" allowfullscreen="" width="560" frameborder="0" height="315"></iframe>

My ACE is always turned off. Matter of fact it's set to Off by default yet every game I have to manually go and turn it Off because it turns itself back On.

[Marty Funkhouser]

Re: Timeout Menu is horrible

@10:05 to 10:12. "It's only going to last for a couple of possession and then ACE takes over"

@10:15 - 10:30 "If you want to be in control at all times, you'll need to turn ACE off"

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/VZvFJS4drUg" allowfullscreen="" width="560" frameborder="0" height="315"></iframe>

Dude, it does not work regardless if ace is turned off.

[strawberryshortcake]

Re: Timeout Menu is horrible

My ACE is always turned off. Matter of fact it's set to Off by default yet every game I have to manually go and turn it Off because it turns itself back On.

Dude, it does not work regardless if ace is turned off.

Not true because I turn ACE off before the start of each game and still get the default POEs after a few minutes.

Then that's a bug, not an interface issue. All three of your concern is that it doesn't respond. Is that an interface issue? The same with the substitution bug. There's a difference between the interface and whether the commands work or not.

[Marty Funkhouser]

Re: Timeout Menu is horrible

Then that's a bug, not an interface issue. All three of your concern is that it doesn't respond. Is that an interface issue? The same with the substitution bug. There's a difference between the interface and whether the commands work or not.

Then what about the fact that you can't do mass substitutions from the timeout menu? that's a design flaw

or the fact that with the on the fly menu, it disappears after only one decision? that's a design flaw?

Or the fact that overall it is not nearly as responsive, accessibly or intuitive as past 2Ks? that's a design flaw.

the time out menu and OTF menus are meant to be used for the user to be able to make quick, timely adjustments to respond to the flow of the game, everything from the dial design to the right stick inputs are stpes away from that. The additional features are nice but mean nothing because of the cumbersome UI. It's flash over function.

[Hustle Westbrook]

Re: Timeout Menu is horrible

Then that's a bug, not an interface issue. All three of your concern is that it doesn't respond. Is that an interface issue? The same with the substitution bug. There's a difference between the interface and whether the commands work or not.

I know it's a bug, I never said it was an interface issue.

[strawberryshortcake]

Re: Timeout Menu is horrible

I know it's a bug, I never said it was an interface issue.

I had to go test this out, start a game, turn off NBA2k17, refire up 2k17, start a game, tried hitting the rematch button, finished a 12 minute quarter x 4 quarter game, and start another game, and my ACE is still turned off in all cases.

Did you turn off ACE in the main/home setting screen rather than during the in game setting screen?

That's why it took so long to respond.


<img src="http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p175/strawberrysundayshortcake/Sports%20Video%20Games/NBA%202k17%20-%20%20NBA%202k16/NBA2k17%20coach%20setting.png" border="0" alt=" photo NBA2k17 coach setting.png"/>

Then what about the fact that you can't do mass substitutions from the timeout menu? that's a design flaw

or the fact that with the on the fly menu, it disappears after only one decision? that's a design flaw?

Or the fact that overall it is not nearly as responsive, accessibly or intuitive as past 2Ks? that's a design flaw.

the time out menu and OTF menus are meant to be used for the user to be able to make quick, timely adjustments to respond to the flow of the game, everything from the dial design to the right stick inputs are stpes away from that. The additional features are nice but mean nothing because of the cumbersome UI. It's flash over function.

Point 1
What is your definition of "mass substitution"? You can toggle between starters, bench, free throw unit, tall unit, three point specialist, etc. by simply pressing L1 or R1. We're all in agreement that the timeout screen has a bug. It doesn't sub anyone in despite making the substitutions, but the way to sub someone in and out seem very intuitive to me. Left stick to highlight the player on the court, right stick to sub in a bench player, pretty intuitive.

Point 2
What was your take on NBA2k16 on the fly menu? Did you like 2k16's because I just tested it out and it also disappears once you call a play. The following is from 2k16. The 2k16 picture below has 4 quick plays. Were you trying to do more than one play at back to back without having the screen disappear, because the screen actually completely disappears in 2k16 as well once you decide on one play.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4tumke

<img src="http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p175/strawberrysundayshortcake/Sports%20Video%20Games/NBA%202k17%20-%20%20NBA%202k16/NBA%202k16%20quick%20plays%201a.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo NBA 2k16 quick plays 1a.jpg"/>

Point 3
You're saying that it's not responsive (this is a bug if it's not responding to your command). Accessibility is there if the user simply tries to understand it. Just because it looks different doesn't mean it's not accessible. I'm figuring it out, other people are figuring it out. There's a method to it.



Timeout screen: (there's essentially two or three major sections) and that's it.

Offense/Defense (sets & adjustments)
L1 or R1 to switch to offense or defensive adjustments/sets.
Offense screen: triangle for (sets); square for (adjustments)
Defense screen: triangle for (sets); square for (adjustments).

That's the basic gist.

Substitution screen:
Move your left stick to highlight a player. Press R2 to bring up substitution menu.

That's the basic gist.


Are you telling me that 2k16 is easier to grasp than 2k17's radial pie chart? Present this specific photograph to one of your family member and see which one is easier to understand.
<img src="http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p175/strawberrysundayshortcake/Sports%20Video%20Games/NBA%202k17%20-%20%20NBA%202k16/NBA%202k16%20vs%202k17%20menu%201.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo NBA 2k16 vs 2k17 menu 1.jpg"/>

What do you propose to be a better method than the visual clock dial when it comes to on the fly adjustments because everytime I keep trying to call a play in 2k16, I have to keep seeing whether I have to push up, down, left or right on the right stick. 2k17 is such a breeze because of the radial clock dial.

[Marty Funkhouser]

Re: Timeout Menu is horrible

I had to go test this out, start a game, turn off NBA2k17, refire up 2k17, start a game, tried hitting the rematch button, finished a 12 minute quarter x 4 quarter game, and start another game, and my ACE is still turned off in all cases.

Did you turn off ACE in the main/home setting screen rather than during the in game setting screen?

That's why it took so long to respond.


<img src="http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p175/strawberrysundayshortcake/Sports%20Video%20Games/NBA%202k17%20-%20%20NBA%202k16/NBA2k17%20coach%20setting.png" border="0" alt=" photo NBA2k17 coach setting.png"/>




Point 1
What is your definition of "mass substitution"? You can toggle between starters, bench, free throw unit, tall unit, three point specialist, etc. by simply pressing L1 or R1. We're all in agreement that the timeout screen has a bug. It doesn't sub anyone in despite making the substitutions, but the way to sub someone in and out seem very intuitive to me. Left stick to highlight the player on the court, right stick to sub in a bench player, pretty intuitive.

Point 2
What was your take on NBA2k16 on the fly menu? Did you like 2k16's because I just tested it out and it also disappears once you call a play. The following is from 2k16. The 2k16 picture below has 4 quick plays. Were you trying to do more than one play at back to back without having the screen disappear, because the screen actually completely disappears in 2k16 as well once you decide on one play.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x4tumke

<img src="http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p175/strawberrysundayshortcake/Sports%20Video%20Games/NBA%202k17%20-%20%20NBA%202k16/NBA%202k16%20quick%20plays%201a.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo NBA 2k16 quick plays 1a.jpg"/>

Point 3
You're saying that it's not responsive (this is a bug if it's not responding to your command). Accessibility is there if the user simply tries to understand it. Just because it looks different doesn't mean it's not accessible. I'm figuring it out, other people are figuring it out. There's a method to it.



Timeout screen: (there's essentially two or three major sections) and that's it.

Offense/Defense (sets & adjustments)
L1 or R1 to switch to offense or defensive adjustments/sets.
Offense screen: triangle for (sets); square for (adjustments)
Defense screen: triangle for (sets); square for (adjustments).

That's the basic gist.

Substitution screen:
Move your left stick to highlight a player. Press R2 to bring up substitution menu.

That's the basic gist.


Are you telling me that 2k16 is easier to grasp than 2k17's radial pie chart? Present this specific photograph to one of your family member and see which one is easier to understand.
<img src="http://i128.photobucket.com/albums/p175/strawberrysundayshortcake/Sports%20Video%20Games/NBA%202k17%20-%20%20NBA%202k16/NBA%202k16%20vs%202k17%20menu%201.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo NBA 2k16 vs 2k17 menu 1.jpg"/>

What do you propose to be a better method than the visual clock dial when it comes to on the fly adjustments because everytime I keep trying to call a play in 2k16, I have to keep seeing whether I have to push up, down, left or right on the right stick. 2k17 is such a breeze because of the radial clock dial.

point 1
in the timeout menu there's no way to substitute all your players all at once you have to manually sub out each player and mass subs can only be done via the start menu, or in the on the fly menu.
I don't believe the dial menu is intuitive as due to the size and orientation you have to take in more information to make a decision. Maybe it's just me but I find it cumbersome and a simple linear top down list would be more effective.

point 2
No I was not a fan of 2k16's design changes either but it was better than this year's.
When I'm talking about "making a decision"

In 2K17 when, for example, adjusting the POEs, if I select "No Threes" the OTF menu disappears.

In 2k16, I can change every single POE on offense and defense without the menu disappearing allowing me the adjust my entire gameplan in 5-8 seconds.

- I can manually sub out each individual player without the menu closing. In 2K17, the menu closes and opens for each player I want to sub out and not all the subs I want to make are in the preset lineups nor do I want to have to customize each lineup pregame as that was not necessary in previous entries.

point 3
Regarding accessibility, it's taken a step back, it's not about learning the system but more about the ease of learning. In 2K pre-2k16 the way the information was presented was in a line straight forward manner.

It's straight forward and to the point, as someone who has never played 2k they could understand which buttons corresponded to plays, how to go to the next slide of plays.
There was no learning curve.

I cannot stress this enough, the point of a UX is to be as effective as possible, you shouldn't have to learn how to navigate menus.

Substitution screen:
Move your left stick to highlight a player. Press R2 to bring up substitution menu.

I mean, doesn't that sound a bit excessive just to sub a player out?

Doesn't just a bringing up a sub menu and making all your subs there sound more intuitive?

As far as a solution, I've said it before, give the option. You already have options on how complicated the UI overlay for playvision. Have one for the OTF and timeout menus.

For users like myself who value responsiveness and accessibility over everything have a UI that's linear and in list format. For those who prefer the dial design, they can use that.

[Marty Funkhouser]

Re: Timeout Menu is horrible

Also, I have ACE turned off in my main coaching settings screen but yet for every single play now match, it's turned back on. But 2k settings actually being saved is a whole other can of worms...

[Marty Funkhouser]

Re: Timeout Menu is horrible

And lastly, the only things I care about being fixed are the litany of bugs with the coaching adjustments, being able to mass substitute in the timeout menu and the OTF menu closing after every decision.

I've played 2K far too long to be upset about the devs constantly messing with things that never needed fixing or removing features.

[Pappy Knuckles]

Re: Timeout Menu is horrible

Not a fan of the timeout menu at all, but I think a lot of us would be a lot more receptive to it if our changes actually stuck after a dead ball. I've basically just been doing everything on the fly at this point. The game is so much fun to play, but it's super aggravating to have your defense fall apart because you're constantly pulling up the menu to switch back the adjustments that you just made.

[kabamaru]

Re: Timeout Menu is horrible

We are talking about 2 different issues here

a) on the fly menus and timeouts UI. I personally believe it's too complex BUT eventually I believe I will get used to it, especially if on the fly menus do not turn off after every decision. I don't get why I need to open the menu 2 times to set my offense at 4 out, space the floor.

Some people think it gives you more control and I respect their opinion even though I believe on the fly menus should be a lot less time consuming.

b) ACE is bugged. This is a TREMENDOUSLY HUGE ISSUE. There is absolutely no reason why you cannot set POE before game. Every coach sets his POE before game.

Your POEs in game do not remain, even when ACE off. Also for that you need to make sure that has remained off during every game because it resets to on automatically.

Even if your POEs were working fine I don't understand why with ACE ON they would reset after 1-2 processions. I for example could be fine with ACE decisions but maybe I want to crash defensive boards all game.
Why is my only option to play fully ACE ON or fully ACE OFF?

The easiest thing would be that in your starting screen and in timeouts and on the fly menus your choices for rebound eg would be some crash / crash defensive boards / run in transition / ACE

Last year you could override some changes and keep the rest. Why do you have less control now?

For the ACE bug thing I am really mad with both 2k and the ones in here that support it. How is it even possible to do tutorials for timeouts and on the fly menus and not realizing it doesn't work? same goes for subs in to

2k should patch ASAP and while we see many people of 2k here replying questions like shooting with stick etc, I find it really strange that they have not said anything about such serious issue

[MarkWilliam]

Re: Timeout Menu is horrible

Yeah I can see the idea behind the timeout screen - has some depth to it. But it sucks to me that we have to learn it with the 1 minute window haha. I wish there were some sort of tutorial so we could learn to utilise it properly.

Subbing is glitched which irritates me. You have to pause and do it to take effect during the timeout. Otherwise it just happens at the next dead ball.

Hmmm......

[strawberryshortcake]

Re: Timeout Menu is horrible

Spoiler

point 1

in the timeout menu there's no way to substitute all your players all at once you have to manually sub out each player and mass subs can only be done via the start menu, or in the on the fly menu.
I don't believe the dial menu is intuitive as due to the size and orientation you have to take in more information to make a decision. Maybe it's just me but I find it cumbersome and a simple linear top down list would be more effective.

point 2
No I was not a fan of 2k16's design changes either but it was better than this year's.
When I'm talking about "making a decision"

In 2K17 when, for example, adjusting the POEs, if I select "No Threes" the OTF menu disappears.

In 2k16, I can change every single POE on offense and defense without the menu disappearing allowing me the adjust my entire gameplan in 5-8 seconds.

- I can manually sub out each individual player without the menu closing. In 2K17, the menu closes and opens for each player I want to sub out and not all the subs I want to make are in the preset lineups nor do I want to have to customize each lineup pregame as that was not necessary in previous entries.

Spoiler

point 3
Regarding accessibility, it's taken a step back, it's not about learning the system but more about the ease of learning. In 2K pre-2k16 the way the information was presented was in a line straight forward manner.

It's straight forward and to the point, as someone who has never played 2k they could understand which buttons corresponded to plays, how to go to the next slide of plays.
There was no learning curve.

I cannot stress this enough, the point of a UX is to be as effective as possible, you shouldn't have to learn how to navigate menus.


I mean, doesn't that sound a bit excessive just to sub a player out?

Doesn't just a bringing up a sub menu and making all your subs there sound more intuitive?

As far as a solution, I've said it before, give the option. You already have options on how complicated the UI overlay for playvision. Have one for the OTF and timeout menus.

For users like myself who value responsiveness and accessibility over everything have a UI that's linear and in list format. For those who prefer the dial design, they can use that.

Spoiler tag just to save real estate...

Now I understand the concern for the On the Fly Menu
Now that's a different story that I will agree with. The menu disappearing really isn't the most efficient method. I would definitely agree it needs to reprogrammed so the menu stays visible on screen until the user decides s/he wants the menu to disappear.

I would prefer a mix between 2k16 and 2k17's menu
The reason why I dislike 2k16 and in favor of the current menu system is because 2k16 has absolutely no visual feedback indicator. Watch the two 2k16 videos below to see just how "strange" (for a lack of the better word) making changes "look". To an outsider (and even to me), it seems like I'm simply pushing random buttons, and trying to "glitch" the menu. It's like did I even do anything -- that's how it looked every single time I made substitution on the fly.

2k16 substitution tutorial I made b/c I had trouble figuring it out
Even though I made a tutorial here on operationsports because people (including me) were having trouble with 2k16's substitution menu, I still didn't like it because there was absolutely no visual indicator.
http://www.operationsports.com/forum...gy-thread.html


(2k16) There is no rhyme or reason for the 3rd and 4th row to use "push left" on the right stick to select the 3rd row option, and "push right" on the right stick to select the 4th row option. And then clicking the right stick for the 5th option.

(2k17) Implementing a clock radial screen makes the selection process more intuitive and quicker. "Play1" on the lower left hand corner, push right stick to lower left hand corner; "play2" on lower right hand corner, push right stick to lower right hand corner.

Note: I can see the streamlined approach with 2k16's selection screens, but its implementation without a visual indicator is why I prefer 2k17's menu. In addition, I prefer 2k17's approach because with 2k16 I constantly have to battle trying to decipher which way to push the right stick. Now, I may have a different take if 2k16 had some type of visual indicator but more importantly pushing the right stick to select needs to make intuitive sense like how it is in 2k17 (i.e. I did a mock up below of what would have been better for 2k16).

(I still prefer having 2k17's radial menu because I simply push the right stick in the direction of the play and not having to decipher which way to push the right stick. 2k16 with no visual feedback indicator was giving me brain farts sometimes.)

===================
Regarding your Point 3
===================

I still don't like that I have to decipher which direction to push the right stick to select the play. 2k17 makes it more intuitive. The following is still a "chore" to remember or decipher which way to push the right stick. It's not as intuitive as a radial clock.





NBA 2k16 MENUs:
Looks kind of like I'm glitching the menus by pressing random buttons. No visual feedback indicator.

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/OhK8JurgZUk" allowfullscreen="" width="560" frameborder="0" height="315"></iframe>

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Ial8wdDlXjI" allowfullscreen="" width="560" frameborder="0" height="315"></iframe>



Screen 1 "better 2k16 menu"

Either Screen 1 or Screen 2 is fine. Screen 1 distinguishes the current on court players vs the available bench players from screen 3.



Screen 2 "better 2k16 menu"




Screen 3 "better 2k16 menu"