Speed With Ball Rating Test (SWB)

[Mikelopedia]

Re: Speed With Ball Rating Test (SWB)

Yeah, I noticed that Isaiah Thomas has 87 speed and 94 speed with the ball. So, I guess he can only run that fast when he has the ball in his hands

It seems a little weird, but maybe there a reason behind it?

I believe the reason is this:

Last year, myself and many others here, had a warranted gripe with Steph Curry being as fast or faster than most of the elite PG's in the NBA when in reality, he isn't that physically gifted.

The Speed with Ball rating allowed 2k to try to more properly rate players speed, but then inflate the SWB rating so that players like Steph could still blow by people and be difficult to cover.

[Tstone77]

Re: Speed With Ball Rating Test (SWB)

I believe the reason is this:

Last year, myself and many others here, had a warranted gripe with Steph Curry being as fast or faster than most of the elite PG's in the NBA when in reality, he isn't that physically gifted.

The Speed with Ball rating allowed 2k to try to more properly rate players speed, but then inflate the SWB rating so that players like Steph could still blow by people and be difficult to cover.

Sounds accurate.

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[alisimsekelektro]

Re: Speed With Ball Rating Test (SWB)

Nobody faster with ball. 90 speed and 90 swb completely different.

ASUS_T00J cihazımdan Tapatalk kullanılarak gönderildi

[Peninc]

Re: Speed With Ball Rating Test (SWB)

I understand that in the real world it may not make sense for a player to be faster with the ball than without. However, consider that there may be a method to 2K's madness here. This manipulation of ratings may well be to facilitate elements of gameplay, or to make the game play more naturally.

Personally I'm thinking about close out speeds and chase down blocks and even players off the ball running around like mad ants simply because their speed without the ball rating is significantly higher than us well meaning consumers think is "realistic".

I'd be careful about tampering with the flow of the game as it is right now. Unless I'm 100℅ sure it would only be an improvement.

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[Whomario]

Re: Speed With Ball Rating Test (SWB)

There are other ratings who would benefit from a “modifier“ approach, like contested mid/3.

[CBAT]

Re: Speed With Ball Rating Test (SWB)

Did you factor in the accelration when you tested?

This is the one piece I did not take into account, but would like to at some point. My guess is that it had very little effect, since both players seemed to reach top speed in both scenarios very quickly.

As somebody who is spending about 18/24 hours each day, dick deep in data while testing three different hypotheses, I found this post to be refreshing.

Glad to to be of service!

No reason to decrease (check out super awesome logic) just make it cap at... player speed.

This is concerning because it does make you think the shot off dribble rating really is completely different from the regular shot... so some people might be better at shooting a crazy shot than a good shot. Nobody is like that. haha. They needed to give shot creator like 85 75 ratings for shooting and let them have a v small penalty for crazy shots. Not giving them a 90 rating when they are falling away, if that's true... and it seems like it is, with this discovery.

-Smak

This is exactly what I was thinking, but I figured I'd save it for a separate topic, since that is a whole other issue.

I believe the reason is this:

Last year, myself and many others here, had a warranted gripe with Steph Curry being as fast or faster than most of the elite PG's in the NBA when in reality, he isn't that physically gifted.

The Speed with Ball rating allowed 2k to try to more properly rate players speed, but then inflate the SWB rating so that players like Steph could still blow by people and be difficult to cover.

I definitely understand the gripe, but feel that it was implemented poorly. We are not looking for Curry's top speed to be extremely fast with the ball, it is his handles, quickness and ultimately his shooting ability that allows him to get by people so easily. The defenders must stay up on him and then he uses his ball handling skills/quickness/acceleration to blow by them, not his top speed.

[BigT34]

Re: Speed With Ball Rating Test (SWB)

My gut is that this is a workaround of some kind, to give some guys the ability to be tough to guard in the open court. It's probably in there because the game engine is not a pure representation of real life and real physics, so there have to be fudge factors.

The tricky part is not knowing what's a fudge factor versus an actual rating. It causes problems, too, with draft class editing, where there are lots of discordant ratings (say, 80 rating for open 3 point shot and 35 rating for open mid-range shot, which is absurd).

Similarly, does anyone know if the contested jump shot ratings are modifiers or pure ratings? Theoretically, the BEST shooters should have a contested shot rating cap at their open shot rating, and all but a couple of players should have fairly dramatic penalties. But we don't know exactly how these ratings work, so we can't make use of edits to craft a better game for ourselves.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: Speed With Ball Rating Test (SWB)

The only way Steph Curry with the ball can keep up with Westbrook is if the ball he's holding has a rocket attached to it.

[thormessiah]

Re: Speed With Ball Rating Test (SWB)

As somebody who is spending about 18/24 hours each day, dick deep in data while testing three different hypotheses, I found this post to be refreshing.

You a data analyst? That's what I'm studying lol. Maybe I can work for 2K once I graduate

[Mikelopedia]

Re: Speed With Ball Rating Test (SWB)

I definitely understand the gripe, but feel that it was implemented poorly. We are not looking for Curry's top speed to be extremely fast with the ball, it is his handles, quickness and ultimately his shooting ability that allows him to get by people so easily. The defenders must stay up on him and then he uses his ball handling skills/quickness/acceleration to blow by them, not his top speed.

Oh I absolutely agree. I wasn't saying I support the way it was implemented, simply that that's what I believe their logic to be. Steph's speed was actually INCREASED throughout the year last year.

[Haraldsson88]

Re: Speed With Ball Rating Test (SWB)

Dont know if its been mentioned but another problem with SWB is that peoples Lateral quickness is pretty much as high as some playstyles SWB.

For example: I got 2 players, a slasher and a playmaker.

My Slasher maxes at 77 SWB and my Playmaker Lateral quickness maxes at 75.

See the problem? Pretty obvious.

77 SWB Vs 75 Lateral quickness.

94 SWB vs 74 Lateral quickess.

[ballin095]

Re: Speed With Ball Rating Test (SWB)

I hope a developer can come in this thread and truly explain how this rating works and why.

[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: Speed With Ball Rating Test (SWB)

I just did a quick test. I gave a player 25 speed and 99 speed without ball.

The sight of him running in concrete without the ball and tuning into Westbrook when dribblin gave me a chuckle.

Then I did a more realistic test. Speed at 80, speed with ball at 90. And I noticed that he would start in a jog before fully sprinting despite the fact I simply held the left stick.

[infemous]

Re: Speed With Ball Rating Test (SWB)

I hope a developer can come in this thread and truly explain how this rating works and why.

ya or at least tune it in a patch if this is actually true.

its weird af having builds faster with the ball than without. that just makes zero sense.

[Pound4pound]

Re: Speed With Ball Rating Test (SWB)

Last year I saw an analytic which tracked the distance each player ran during the season and their average speed. Now, this could be an oversight on 2K's behalf and they really did think that a player could run faster while performing a task than they could while just sprinting, but maybe their thinking was, "without the ball, player A only moves this fast (possibly in an effort to conserve energy or they simply have a lack of desire), despite the fact that they have a much higher speed potential, however, they use that full potential with the ball because they are motivated to use their full speed."

Your on the right track. I understand what they are saying but to me It does make sense.. If steph curry gets a steal and has a fastbreak he shouldn't be getting chased down by anyone an 83 speed makes sense becuz hes not that fast really but with the ball hes much faster getting to the basket or blowing by defenders so I like it.. It may not makes sense by the numbers but it works during gameplay to me