For those still saying sharpshooters are not op....

[Tstone77]

Re: For those still saying sharpshooters are not op....

Game is patch 4 tier, it's laughable.

2k was just testing people's reaction. Before they decided to release 2k17, genius marketing. You could say patch 4 was the demo.

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[GradyMac]

Re: For those still saying sharpshooters are not op....

Skill matters the most this year, sorry if you are not as good as other players on the court.


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It is so easy to tell who created a sharpshooter in this thread.

[Bornindamecca]

Re: For those still saying sharpshooters are not op....

So I have both a Sharpshooter PG & a LDD PG.

My views on the situation..

1) Those who are using any real world statistics need to stop. You cannot compare real statistics to a video game and specifically Pro-Am & Park modes. There is so much that happens in those modes that does NOT happen in real world basketball. Also factor in that our players are user controlled too & that will always change an outcome.

2) I've previously posted what needs to be nerfed with a sharpshooter, I will defend them with regards to 'open' threes. If they nerf those then it's rewarding and benefiting those who are rubbish on D. You should be punished for leaving a sharpshooter wide open.

3) There is more to factor in than just reducing the shooting percentages.. Screens play a huge part and having the moving/illegal screens in the game and being used without punishment is a HUGE part of the problem. When you factor in poor collision animation too, it does make things easier to get open. I would prefer they work on this issue first.

4) Any moving shots or shots off the dribble by a sharpshooter need to be nerfed. We shouldn't be able to dribble and then shoot and hit it. That's what a shot creators benefit is.

5) Nerf our contested shot percentage. Again if wide open then you should be punished but if you have put your hand in their face and defending the best you can, then it shouldn't be automatic.

6) Limit the amount of 'greens' on a shot release. Way too many people are draining threes due to this combined with the shot stick.. I've seen glass cleaner centers who are hitting 50+ threes on a 50% clip in Park with a 30 attribute rating.. So that is a sign that the whole game is messed up and not particularly sharpshooters.

7) Most who are moaning are probably Playmakers and if you are, how realistic is it for a 'Playmaker' to go left right, left right and constantly spam dribble moves to make someone fall over before you shoot yourself? .. You have a high passing attributes for a reason and that was to be the one to get others involved.. Again blame cheesers and youtubers for ruining that archetype.

8) If you pick an offensive archetype you SHOULD be punished on the defensive end. Otherwise what is the point in a LDD? .. If they raise the other archetypes defensive attributes or make things easier for those to defend then it makes people who are a LDD extinct.

I agree with most of this. Only thing I'd say is that LDDs should be for the one-on-one scoring classes, like Shot Creators and Post Scorers. Playmakers should be easily counterable at the rim with soft help, and on the perimeter with either good recovery, or playing the percentages of them shooting off the dribble. Slashers should need to be countered off the ball with contact preventing them from cutting and getting leaving someone to get back on D to prevent them from getting out on the break. What you give up is that with decent playmaking and shooting off the dribble, you play the percentages in the midrange and trust your 1 on 1 D. Sharpshooters should be countered with good switching and committing to not helping off of them.

Shot Creators and Post Scorers should either require help or a LDD in an one-on-one situation. The other counter would be that you let them have their offense in exchange for a more 3pt focused attack. LDDs shouldn't be necessary for the other classes, with the exception of Rim Protectors if the other team either has Athletic Finishers or an inabilty to stop Slashers from getting a head of steam.

This is what I see in the design of the game, but with shooting sliders, contact sliders, the weirdness of shot off dribble and badges, it's going to be some work for them to get it all working properly.

On paper, the design is dynamic and has a lot of potential.

[Clappington]

Re: For those still saying sharpshooters are not op....

Biggest issue I have about sharpshooters they have access to normal 1 hessy. That move has to be taken out the game. As soon as they do that step back it's over. There's nothing you can do. All the players who avg like 30-50 ppg in pro am I've went against does that move and pulls from damn near half court. I know you sharpshooters don't want this turned down because you all are probably the same people who had no issue with patch 4. But you'd be pretty ignorant to say shooting isn't OP in this 2k. And the fact that y'all argument is "make a LDD that's what that is there for." That's pretty ridiculous to even suggest that. So basically the game should be nothing but sharpshooters and LDD. And even with a LDD that doesn't mean you will stop a sharpshooter from taking a horrible shot and making it. 2k rewards people already for making trash shots but that's been going on for years so I accepted that. But if you sharpshooters can't admit shooting is OP you are what's wrong with the problem in 2k community.


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[Caelumfang]

Re: For those still saying sharpshooters are not op....

Biggest issue I have about sharpshooters they have access to normal 1 hessy. That move has to be taken out the game. As soon as they do that step back it's over. There's nothing you can do. All the players who avg like 30-50 ppg in pro am I've went against does that move and pulls from damn near half court. I know you sharpshooters don't want this turned down because you all are probably the same people who had no issue with patch 4. But you'd be pretty ignorant to say shooting isn't OP in this 2k. And the fact that y'all argument is "make a LDD that's what that is there for." That's pretty ridiculous to even suggest that. So basically the game should be nothing but sharpshooters and LDD. And even with a LDD that doesn't mean you will stop a sharpshooter from taking a horrible shot and making it. 2k rewards people already for making trash shots but that's been going on for years so I accepted that. But if you sharpshooters can't admit shooting is OP you are what's wrong with the problem in 2k community.


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Lol really? A good Sharpshooter is going to bake you even without that move. Normal Hesitation 1 is your big excuse?

Honestly? When I hear 'I want _______ to miss more!', all I hear is 'I want the game to play defense for me! I want to be able to leave shooters wide open and have them miss half, or more than half, of their shots!'

I can agree with contested shot makes being lowered, but you SHOULD get baked if you leave them open. Period. And instantly dropping a Sharpshooter's shot rating from the 90s to the low 70s because he put the ball on the floor is just plain stupid.

[x_NBA_x]

Re: For those still saying sharpshooters are not op....

You people that are defending this can't refute the facts. Anybody who wants their shooter to shoot more threes than Curry and still average 50-60% is ridiculous.

Like stated earlier the archetypes are not Rock, paper, scissors. You shouldn't need a tony allen player to stop a three point shot.


Also the real world percentages should be reflected in the game, especially pro-am. The percentages show how DIFFICULT it is for shooters to make 50% of their shots. Most Sharpshooters shoot well above that.

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You do know that if you think that real world percentages should be reflected in game for Pro-Am (also Park) then so should other percentages for things, rules and fouls that don't get called and playmakers who cheese dribble for 10+ seconds should be restricted too. Cause that damn sure doesn't happen in real life.

[ruxpinke]

Re: For those still saying sharpshooters are not op....

Lol really? A good Sharpshooter is going to bake you even without that move. Normal Hesitation 1 is your big excuse?

Honestly? When I hear 'I want _______ to miss more!', all I hear is 'I want the game to play defense for me! I want to be able to leave shooters wide open and have them miss half, or more than half, of their shots!'

I can agree with contested shot makes being lowered, but you SHOULD get baked if you leave them open. Period. And instantly dropping a Sharpshooter's shot rating from the 90s to the low 70s because he put the ball on the floor is just plain stupid.

Totally agree with you on the open shots part, open shooters should punish you. I think his point was more to that move being overpowered, thus leading to shots that probably shouldn't be registering as open, registering as open.

As to the second part, shooting off the dribble is a much different skill as a catch and shoot and should be rated differently. If not you have a bunch of guys dribbling around for 20 seconds then shooting with no penalty. Just my opinion. Id like to see a mechanism where the longer you dribble or more dribble moves you make, the probability lowers. Not lowering to zero, but it should have an impact. So yes if you are dribbling and making moves with the ball leading into a shot, you should be in the 70s, not the 90s. If thats how you want to play you should be using a shot creator archetype.

I thought the sharpshooter was supposed to be "baking" off of being set up from teammates and smart play. At least thats how it was described. Not dribbling in circles like Curry and launching.

[Clappington]

Re: For those still saying sharpshooters are not op....

Lol really? A good Sharpshooter is going to bake you even without that move. Normal Hesitation 1 is your big excuse?



Honestly? When I hear 'I want _______ to miss more!', all I hear is 'I want the game to play defense for me! I want to be able to leave shooters wide open and have them miss half, or more than half, of their shots!'



I can agree with contested shot makes being lowered, but you SHOULD get baked if you leave them open. Period. And instantly dropping a Sharpshooter's shot rating from the 90s to the low 70s because he put the ball on the floor is just plain stupid.

Excuse? I'm stating what I experience been seeing that same move for 3 years you know that move is cheesy and rest of stuff you talking about I have no clue why you said that I didn't say anything about you all missing open shots.



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[Caelumfang]

Re: For those still saying sharpshooters are not op....

Totally agree with you on the open shots part, open shooters should punish you. I think his point was more to that move being overpowered, thus leading to shots that probably shouldn't be registering as open, registering as open.

As to the second part, shooting off the dribble is a much different skill as a catch and shoot and should be rated differently. If not you have a bunch of guys dribbling around for 20 seconds then shooting with no penalty. Just my opinion. Id like to see a mechanism where the longer you dribble or more dribble moves you make, the probability lowers. Not lowering to zero, but it should have an impact. So yes if you are dribbling and making moves with the ball leading into a shot, you should be in the 70s, not the 90s. If thats how you want to play you should be using a shot creator archetype.

I thought the sharpshooter was supposed to be "baking" off of being set up from teammates and smart play. At least thats how it was described. Not dribbling in circles like Curry and launching.

So, if someone comes with a hard close out, and I have to put the ball on the floor and move to the side because I know the idiot is going to jump, I should just drop to the 70s? Gotcha.

If I can catch the ball, leave someone in the dirt for closing out too hard, and get the paint protectors to jump for no reason while I stop and pop a midrange jumper, it should be in the 70s? Gotcha.

If I can put the ball on the floor and use a single or double screen and get myself open because of it, my shot should be in the 70s? Gotcha.

If I can get my man to bite on a move and catch him with a quick snatchback while he's running towards the hoop, my shot should be in the 70s? Gotcha.

[PhillyIMBlog.com]

Re: For those still saying sharpshooters are not op....

So, if someone comes with a hard close out, and I have to put the ball on the floor and move to the side because I know the idiot is going to jump, I should just drop to the 70s? Gotcha.

If I can catch the ball, leave someone in the dirt for closing out too hard, and get the paint protectors to jump for no reason while I stop and pop a midrange jumper, it should be in the 70s? Gotcha.

If I can put the ball on the floor and use a single or double screen and get myself open because of it, my shot should be in the 70s? Gotcha.

If I can get my man to bite on a move and catch him with a quick snatchback while he's running towards the hoop, my shot should be in the 70s? Gotcha.

Dudes be heated so much that their getting cooked. When did people start going by the philosophy of cant beat em report em?


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[ruxpinke]

Re: For those still saying sharpshooters are not op....

So, if someone comes with a hard close out, and I have to put the ball on the floor and move to the side because I know the idiot is going to jump, I should just drop to the 70s? Gotcha.

If I can catch the ball, leave someone in the dirt for closing out too hard, and get the paint protectors to jump for no reason while I stop and pop a midrange jumper, it should be in the 70s? Gotcha.

If I can put the ball on the floor and use a single or double screen and get myself open because of it, my shot should be in the 70s? Gotcha.

If I can get my man to bite on a move and catch him with a quick snatchback while he's running towards the hoop, my shot should be in the 70s? Gotcha.

IMO, Yes. The 70s aren't a death sentence. My point forward SF has shot in the 70s and can hit at normal averages on a catch and shoot. right now im 30 percent from 3 in 80 or so attempts. Not at a 60-70 percent clip, but respectable. Off the dribble i suck, but that's a limitation of the build. if someone makes me pick up and move off a catch and shoot they've done their job, forcing me into a situation where I'm not built to excel from a shooting standpoint. A sharpshooter (as constructed by the caps) who is forced off a catch and shoot situation should be similar.

Feel free to create a shot creator and shoot off the dribble all day long. That's where they are supposed to excel. It seems like some want both the sharpshooter catch and shoot mastery as well as the shot creator ability. I dont think its fair to have both with the way the game was supposed to be designed this year.

I'm not coming at you personally - I do appreciate your points, and I think there's a medium ground between some of the moves you described and some of what people are complaining about with the overdribbling, and I think you can even appreciate that difference. I just don't know if the system is complex enough to decipher the difference.

[Caelumfang]

Re: For those still saying sharpshooters are not op....

IMO, Yes. The 70s aren't a death sentence. My point forward SF has shot in the 70s and can hit at normal averages on a catch and shoot. right now im 30 percent from 3 in 80 or so attempts. Not at a 60-70 percent clip, but respectable. Off the dribble i suck, but that's a limitation of the build. if someone makes me pick up and move off a catch and shoot they've done their job, forcing me into a situation where I'm not built to excel from a shooting standpoint. A sharpshooter (as constructed by the caps) who is forced off a catch and shoot situation should be similar.

Feel free to create a shot creator and shoot off the dribble all day long. That's where they are supposed to excel. It seems like some want both the sharpshooter catch and shoot mastery as well as the shot creator ability. I dont think its fair to have both with the way the game was supposed to be designed this year.

I'm not coming at you personally - I do appreciate your points, and I think there's a medium ground between some of the moves you described and some of what people are complaining about with the overdribbling, and I think you can even appreciate that difference. I just don't know if the system is complex enough to decipher the difference.

Now, let me show you the compensation that would have to come if Sharpshooters were to become nothing more than Catch and Shooters:

* Their stamina would have to be increased exponentially, because they'd have to burn through a lot of turbo trying to shake their defender every possession just to get open. I can hear complaints coming from defenders crying that they run out of energy well before Sharpshooters.

* Their badges would have to become even more powerful to compensate for their inability to put the ball on the floor. I can hear complaints coming from defenders crying EVEN MORE that they're getting wet up from the field.

* Their off-ball speed would probably need to be increased in order to aid them in getting open faster. More complaints would be flooding in.

If you were to realize, Sharpshooters are pretty much Larry Bird-lites. You're meaning to tell me Bird lost effectiveness to his shot because he put the ball on the floor?

And like I explained before, if they were to do that, do you realize that Shot Creators could essentially replace every backcourt scorer? They'd have 90+ shots (as long as the ball touches the floor), 80+ driving layups (something Sharpshooter absolutely suck at), 75+ driving dunk (Sharpshooters attempting to dunk in traffic is absolutely hilarious), and close to 90 speed. They'd become even more powerful versions of Outside Scorers from 2k16. You know, those 'do-it-all' types that everyone around here seems to hate. What need would you have for Sharpshooters? Think about that.

[BluFu]

Re: For those still saying sharpshooters are not op....

So, if someone comes with a hard close out, and I have to put the ball on the floor and move to the side because I know the idiot is going to jump, I should just drop to the 70s? Gotcha.

If I can catch the ball, leave someone in the dirt for closing out too hard, and get the paint protectors to jump for no reason while I stop and pop a midrange jumper, it should be in the 70s? Gotcha.

If I can put the ball on the floor and use a single or double screen and get myself open because of it, my shot should be in the 70s? Gotcha.

If I can get my man to bite on a move and catch him with a quick snatchback while he's running towards the hoop, my shot should be in the 70s? Gotcha.

Yep. You chose a sharpshooter. Someone stops your catch & shoot game on one possession? Move the ball. Same with every archetype. You're a slasher or post scorer and the lane is clogged? Move the ball. Shot creator and you can't shake your defender? Move the ball. Lockdown defender? Just move the ball lol.

That's basketball.

[Caelumfang]

Re: For those still saying sharpshooters are not op....

Yep. You chose a sharpshooter. Someone stops your catch & shoot game on one possession? Move the ball. Same with every archetype. You're a slasher or post scorer and the lane is clogged? Move the ball. Shot creator and you can't shake your defender? Move the ball. Lockdown defender? Just move the ball lol.

That's basketball.

Cool, so that means make a Shot Creator, and literally have the same shot rating as Sharpshooters PLUS be able to do more, such as drive and become much faster, WITH the added bonus of Difficult Shots, Mid-Range Deadeye, Ankle Breaker and Tireless Scorer. Sounds fair enough.

[BEasy20]

Re: For those still saying sharpshooters are not op....

Now, let me show you the compensation that would have to come if Sharpshooters were to become nothing more than Catch and Shooters:

* Their stamina would have to be increased exponentially, because they'd have to burn through a lot of turbo trying to shake their defender every possession just to get open. I can hear complaints coming from defenders crying that they run out of energy well before Sharpshooters.

* Their badges would have to become even more powerful to compensate for their inability to put the ball on the floor. I can hear complaints coming from defenders crying EVEN MORE that they're getting wet up from the field.

* Their off-ball speed would probably need to be increased in order to aid them in getting open faster. More complaints would be flooding in.

If you were to realize, Sharpshooters are pretty much Larry Bird-lites. You're meaning to tell me Bird lost effectiveness to his shot because he put the ball on the floor?

And like I explained before, if they were to do that, do you realize that Shot Creators could essentially replace every backcourt scorer? They'd have 90+ shots (as long as the ball touches the floor), 80+ driving layups (something Sharpshooter absolutely suck at), 75+ driving dunk (Sharpshooters attempting to dunk in traffic is absolutely hilarious), and close to 90 speed. They'd become even more powerful versions of Outside Scorers from 2k16. You know, those 'do-it-all' types that everyone around here seems to hate. What need would you have for Sharpshooters? Think about that.

Isn't that how all the good sharpshooters in the NBA play though? Reddick and Korver are excellent at being in non stop motion off the ball and running off screens, neither of the two are anything but average athletically.

You mention people complaining about having to guard players running non stop off screens which to me is just good basketball from the offensive player. Having the ability to be in constant motion the way Reddick and Korver are and still be able to shoot through that fatigue is a skill set and there are not many defenders who have that same skill set to harass them throughout the course of the game. So I would have no problem giving them extra stamina to play that way. When I hear a player described as a sharpshooter I imagine an outstanding shooter who needs to do their work off the ball and rely on teammates to find them and put them into a position to succeed.

The way it is set up right now people aren't playing basketball the way a "sharpshooter" would play and thats my main problem with it.