Beluba Update for green releases and shot timing.

[alabamarob]

Re: Beluba Update for green releases and shot timing.

I have started to use a new team (Houston) and played a couple back to back games before and after new sliders.

Before with the default HOF sliders I would get games approaching 60% before using these sliders. I am in the upper 48% range to high 55% after HOF Beluba sliders update to custom. If you use one team primarily or master that team you will eventually start to shoot better with that team due to getting green releases. I have been only using the stick too. My games are usually in the 115-120 range.

What I don't like:

• On ball defense seems too spastic on the CPU with the new sliders. They (CPU) are a little more sticky and are changing directions in unbelievable speeds.
• More misses in some games are resulting in more offensive rebounding opportunities you start to see more easy put backs by the CPU. They need to vary the location of the offensive rebounds to be further out. Some shots doesn't seem contestable especially after offensive rebound.
• The sliders don't impact and one success rates. Still way too high which is messing up the %'s
• Every time I shoot well the CPU shoots well every single time like there a keep the FG% close thing going on.

I think I reached a point where I think the green release being 100% going in shouldn't be in the game. Sometimes I like it but it seems like shooting can be too easy at times. Players are too consistent for me. Maybe it needs to be capped and I think it is making the %'s higher. I know the majority of people will riot if this happens though. I don't think I have had a game against the CPU where we both are under 100 pts.

Green releases are bad news, and i always the thought that the cpu on ball defense should go down to less than 50 as opposed to being bumped up.

[LorenzoDC]

Re: Beluba Update for green releases and shot timing.

I agree with this but they need to fix both. I give up too many easy transition buckets where someone didn't get back by a long pass or transition 3 where the person that gets back runs all the way to the paint and doesn't guard their man on the perimeter for a wide open 3.

Transition AI and shooting percentages and logic are a whole other ball game. I actually think anything in transition operates on a whole other logic system from what happens when the offense sets into a half court system, because there are just too many ways ratings are simply ignored in transition, on both sides of the ball.

I also think transition outcomes are more highly influenced by team or player hot streaks, so that when one team begins to get on a roll, transition outcomes amplify that team hot streak in an OP way, on either side of the ball. So fast break speed boosts/nerfs and AI boosts/nerfs become too lopsided and game balance suffers.

I don't think the stuff Mike is working on, at least in his discussion here with us, really relates much to transition. Czar said in a stream this year that they worked a bit on transition logic this cycle but it's more complicated than most users appreciate and is still a work in progress.

I don't want to derail this thread on this, but I posted a video on legacy transition issues and put it in an appropriate thread here.

[stillfeelme]

Re: Beluba Update for green releases and shot timing.

Transition AI and shooting percentages and logic are a whole other ball game. I actually think anything in transition operates on a whole other logic system from what happens when the offense sets into a half court system, because there are just too many ways ratings are simply ignored in transition, on both sides of the ball.

I also think transition outcomes are more highly influenced by team or player hot streaks, so that when one team begins to get on a roll, transition outcomes amplify that team hot streak in an OP way, on either side of the ball. So fast break speed boosts/nerfs and AI boosts/nerfs become too lopsided and game balance suffers.

I don't think the stuff Mike is working on, at least in his discussion here with us, really relates much to transition. Czar said in a stream this year that they worked a bit on transition logic this cycle but it's more complicated than most users appreciate and is still a work in progress.

I don't want to derail this thread on this, but I posted a video on legacy transition issues and put it in an appropriate thread here.

Yeah that might be true but what I was saying is they will have to improve both. If the transition defense had more realistic logic it would reduce some of the percentages for shooting. Back to the shooting yeah I think I will play a couple other match ups later on and see what I notice. I advise anyone testing the sliders play with the team you played with the most or you know the most.

Now for Beluba will there actually be a stick difficulty change with the patch as far as shooting when the next patch comes out. I am asking is there two changes new sliders and new timing difficulty?

[stillfeelme]

Re: Beluba Update for green releases and shot timing.

Green releases are bad news, and i always the thought that the cpu on ball defense should go down to less than 50 as opposed to being bumped up.

This is how I feel about green releases. They allow certain players to play above their ratings if you know release points. You do need this to get games where players do get hotter than normal which does happen occasionally in the NBA. It is a double edge sword the more good you become over time at timing the more you probably can out play the players ratings. That is why I think they need some cap

[ViolenceFight]

Re: Beluba Update for green releases and shot timing.

This is how I feel about green releases. They allow certain players to play above their ratings if you know release points. You do need this to get games where players do get hotter than normal which does happen occasionally in the NBA. It is a double edge sword the more good you become over time at timing the more you probably can out play the players ratings. That is why I think they need some cap

Yeah, but in retrospect, 2k13 didn't have it, and I watched the 4th string SG(I forget his name, We started referring to him as baby kobe) go off for 30 in 2 different team up games with a horrible rating. The dice rolls under the hood just kept coming up good for him.

I mean, I know it's 2k13, but I feel like all the games there's instances where low rated guys get unnaturally hot and burn you, with or without green releases.

I was hesitant in 15, 16 confirmed that greens lost their luster, and this is just sad.

Go back to the old feedback. Change Excellent release to "Great" or "Best", so that the blow is softened when you get a good look and miss.

I know it's a portion of the player base who doesn't understand that wide open isn't always a 100% make, and they've been conditioned now that if they know the release it's automatic. So you have to psychologically soften the blow in a situation like this in order to not lose all the "Shooting green shots is a skill" crowd.

[stillfeelme]

Re: Beluba Update for green releases and shot timing.

Yeah, but in retrospect, 2k13 didn't have it, and I watched the 4th string SG(I forget his name, We started referring to him as baby kobe) go off for 30 in 2 different team up games with a horrible rating. The dice rolls under the hood just kept coming up good for him.

I mean, I know it's 2k13, but I feel like all the games there's instances where low rated guys get unnaturally hot and burn you, with or without green releases.

I was hesitant in 15, 16 confirmed that greens lost their luster, and this is just sad.

Go back to the old feedback. Change Excellent release to "Great" or "Best", so that the blow is softened when you get a good look and miss.

I know it's a portion of the player base who doesn't understand that wide open isn't always a 100% make, and they've been conditioned now that if they know the release it's automatic. So you have to psychologically soften the blow in a situation like this in order to not lose all the "Shooting green shots is a skill" crowd.

Yeah that will happen. Team up isn't the most sim setting. They actually have pretty much all the ratings in the game that they didn't have in previous iterations. When I mean cap I am talking it should be a boost in the ratings but not near 100%

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[Simhead23]

Re: Beluba Update for green releases and shot timing.

Yeah, but in retrospect, 2k13 didn't have it, and I watched the 4th string SG(I forget his name, We started referring to him as baby kobe) go off for 30 in 2 different team up games with a horrible rating. The dice rolls under the hood just kept coming up good for him.

I mean, I know it's 2k13, but I feel like all the games there's instances where low rated guys get unnaturally hot and burn you, with or without green releases.

I was hesitant in 15, 16 confirmed that greens lost their luster, and this is just sad.

Go back to the old feedback. Change Excellent release to "Great" or "Best", so that the blow is softened when you get a good look and miss.

I know it's a portion of the player base who doesn't understand that wide open isn't always a 100% make, and they've been conditioned now that if they know the release it's automatic. So you have to psychologically soften the blow in a situation like this in order to not lose all the "Shooting green shots is a skill" crowd.

Agreed. I liked green releases at first and thought it was 'skill' but the more I played I noticed it's nothing but muscle memory, and it's easy memory too. Some jump shots in the game are just so easy to green it's not funny. I shot 5-8 from three with john luer, and he has no shooting badges at all. An 8 year old can get greens all the time if they want. That's why there are so many scrubs on park dropping people off. In nba live an excellent release was like 70% I think. I could live with that. Only make it 100% when you get hot, and problem half-way solved. I want it out completely, but the youtubers and twitchers are gonna cryyy to much/

[Bballlogic]

Re: Beluba Update for green releases and shot timing.

This is how I feel about green releases. They allow certain players to play above their ratings if you know release points. You do need this to get games where players do get hotter than normal which does happen occasionally in the NBA. It is a double edge sword the more good you become over time at timing the more you probably can out play the players ratings. That is why I think they need some cap

Problem with this is that youre complaining about the wrong things. The focus should be on defense and yourself as a user to get better. Of course people still hit shots with hands in their face and that is realistic but more times than not, they miss. Work on your user defensive skills and stop lobbying for 2k to put a handicap on offense because YOUR user defensive skills are lacking.

If youre going to make a claim that "players play above their ratingw" then post a video of proof of that such. Stop complaining

[Beluba]

Re: Beluba Update for green releases and shot timing.

Beluba
Gameplay Director, NBA2k

bolded and colored for emphasis

That sure doesn't read SOUND ENGINEER.....

Thanks for this. FWIW, I did pass on the feedback about the net/rim sound effect volumes to the audio team.

[ksuttonjr76]

Re: Beluba Update for green releases and shot timing.

Problem with this is that youre complaining about the wrong things. The focus should be on defense and yourself as a user to get better. Of course people still hit shots with hands in their face and that is realistic but more times than not, they miss. Work on your user defensive skills and stop lobbying for 2k to put a handicap on offense because YOUR user defensive skills are lacking.

If youre going to make a claim that "players play above their ratingw" then post a video of proof of that such. Stop complaining

Why do people post this as if no one TRIED to play defense first before complaining? A person can play all defense in the world they want, but what more can a player do defensively if your opponent is still splashing shots in your face? I just watched a YouTube video where a player was killing the defense on contested shots and over double teams. Killing them to the point where there was no reason to play defense. Personally, I would have quit, because where's the fun in that?

Disadvantages for the defense...

Poor foot planting.

Excessive sliding.

Can get trap behind players (even your own teammates).

Offensive badges that "overpowers or equals out" defensive badge's effects.

Can't play too aggressive...FTs for days.

Can't double team, because anyone above 70 is a 3PT threat. Let's not pretend that people are currently using the mid range game.

Poor rotations by the AI, where you have to worry about open shooters in addition to the ball handler.

Advantage for offensive players...
Just give them a screen and shoot, or wait for the man who will magically be open due to the AI's rotations. It's that easy for the offense.

[sirio994]

Re: Beluba Update for green releases and shot timing.

News about the patch?

[Nukleopatra]

Re: Beluba Update for green releases and shot timing.

Can I ask in this thread if Beuba have watched Smoove's video about help defence and other videos about defence? Because fixing shooting is not number one prority and it seems devs talk about it in a first place which is a bit strange to me. We all getting different results with shooting % not only because of sliders but mostly in my opinion because of how bad defence is this year, after fixing major flaws of defensive AI, I would conder starting fixing shooting issues.

My idea is that I don't want shooting % and everything realted to it suffer or compensate the bad defence. Thanks.

Agreed.

I believe the whole FG% deal would work itself out, if not for the bad defensive AI. One of the biggest issues, is how easy the CPU/User can throw into the paint, to a wide open big. This occurs in transition, or on just normal plays. It seems like a big will set right under the basket every trip down the paint - and if the CPU decides to go there, which happen a lot, it's an easy score, or two free throws. Another issue is the transition defense, where you'll have a guy(s) wide open in the corner every trip - and the CPU knows it. I'm sure the same goes for the user, but I player lock, so whatever the CPU decides to do, is what I do. I never call for the ball, but to gimp my team, I may have to start calling for it, when I think the big is going to make his move... and it happens so often, I can pretty much tell every time.

So, those are just two culprits of bad defense, which leads to easy FG%.

The defense all around is pretty bad. Even during set plays, you'll have guys standing around, or in a state of confusion, which will lead to wide open shots... and I'm talking wide open shots here. So, I'll start worrying about slider adjustments, once I read the upcoming patch notes, which is hopefully 8 gigs of pure defensive adjustments. The only reason I still have the game, is because a well done patch, can still make this the best basketball game I've ever experienced - which is what I expected out of the box - and, well, that's just not the case.... yet.

Editable POEs (without entering a game) would be a nice bonus.

[Bballlogic]

Re: Beluba Update for green releases and shot timing.

Why do people post this as if no one TRIED to play defense first before complaining? A person can play all defense in the world they want, but what more can a player do defensively if your opponent is still splashing shots in your face? I just watched a YouTube video where a player was killing the defense on contested shots and over double teams. Killing them to the point where there was no reason to play defense. Personally, I would have quit, because where's the fun in that?

Disadvantages for the defense...

Poor foot planting.

Excessive sliding.

Can get trap behind players (even your own teammates).

Offensive badges that "overpowers or equals out" defensive badge's effects.

Can't play too aggressive...FTs for days.

Can't double team, because anyone above 70 is a 3PT threat. Let's not pretend that people are currently using the mid range game.

Poor rotations by the AI, where you have to worry about open shooters in addition to the ball handler.

Advantage for offensive players...
Just give them a screen and shoot, or wait for the man who will magically be open due to the AI's rotations. It's that easy for the offense.

And why do you think that me and other players dont have a problem stopping opposing players? If it doesn't bother majority of community, it's time for you to improve upon your game.

I win games more than I lose. Difference is i dont run to my laptop and type an essay about why 2ks flaws lost me the game. You will never win this argument because not everyone is complainingoing nor effected.

[stillfeelme]

Re: Beluba Update for green releases and shot timing.

Problem with this is that youre complaining about the wrong things. The focus should be on defense and yourself as a user to get better. Of course people still hit shots with hands in their face and that is realistic but more times than not, they miss. Work on your user defensive skills and stop lobbying for 2k to put a handicap on offense because YOUR user defensive skills are lacking.

If youre going to make a claim that "players play above their ratingw" then post a video of proof of that such. Stop complaining

This is a thread about green releases and shot timing. This is not complaining it is a fact that if you are good at timing releases you will be good or great at shooting. I am saying me actually shooting is easy against the computer. If you don't see how you can make players shoot better I don't know what to tell you. I have been using the shot stick for too long . How is stating shooting is easy offline complaining. Getting a excellent release is not even hard. I am not even talking about defense but actual timing the release of an animation is not that hard. I am not talking about contested shots but actual timing of a release. If you run plays that yield open shots or have someone that commands a double team then shooting will be easier if you can time shots it is as simple as that I don't know what to tell you.

Multiple people have stated it. Not everybody is equal though. Some people are not good at timing shots whatever though you might be one of those people.

Defense is a separate topic but in the NBA people get open a ton and you are a great shooter if you can shoot 42+% when open

[ksuttonjr76]

Re: Beluba Update for green releases and shot timing.

And why do you think that me and other players dont have a problem stopping opposing players? If it doesn't bother majority of community, it's time for you to improve upon your game.

I win games more than I lose. Difference is i dont run to my laptop and type an essay about why 2ks flaws lost me the game. You will never win this argument because not everyone is complainingoing nor effected.

Because majority of the community outside of this forum don't care about defense as long as they can merely out shoot someone with volume 3's regardless how good the defense is. It's all about the W.

Playing defense means forcing your opponent to change their offense once you're able to identify what they're doing. Unless they're just a bad shooter, people who mastered certain releases will get enough shots to fall where you CAN'T make them change their offense. That's not real basketball.