The CPU is cheating to score on an absurd amount of possessions

[MadManCometh]

Re: The CPU is cheating to score on an absurd amount of possessions

Defense this year is pathetic. The A.I. is just terrible. There is a lot of issues with the gameplay that hurts this game from true greatness. That's why I can't play on ball this year because I have to constantly scan around and manually shift a player out of position back into position. Or when it looks like someone is a about to get beat on a back-cut or something I take over. It's really bad this year. I blame the devs. I just shake my head at this game sometimes.

Fastbreaks are terrible. Defensive players moving in warp speed to catch up and the offensive A.I. don't even feel the lanes properly. It's just a mess this year.

[LorenzoDC]

Re: The CPU is cheating to score on an absurd amount of possessions

Defense this year is pathetic. The A.I. is just terrible. There is a lot of issues with the gameplay that hurts this game from true greatness. That's why I can't play on ball this year because I have to constantly scan around and manually shift a player out of position back into position. Or when it looks like someone is a about to get beat on a back-cut or something I take over. It's really bad this year. I blame the devs. I just shake my head at this game sometimes.

Fastbreaks are terrible. Defensive players moving in warp speed to catch up and the offensive A.I. don't even feel the lanes properly. It's just a mess this year.

Off ball or on ball, it doesn't matter. Suction happens. Aside from AI teammates not holding to their settings based assignments and CPU opponents playing beyond their ratings, here's me playing on ball. The shot went in, though I didn't show it:

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/0xvZ3ZHUKOo" allowfullscreen="" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0"></iframe>

[Comduklakis]

Re: The CPU is cheating to score on an absurd amount of possessions

Off ball or on ball, it doesn't matter. Suction happens. Aside from AI teammates not holding to their settings based assignments and CPU opponents playing beyond their ratings, here's me playing on ball. The shot went in, though I didn't show it:

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/0xvZ3ZHUKOo" allowfullscreen="" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0"></iframe>

those are the ones that kill you. Just drive you crazy.

It's a shame because in so many ways the game is fantastic. Rebounding is quite good after years of that being a major issue. It looks great. Lot of neat features like expansion, expanded stats, easier editing, etc. The presentation is awesome (especially when you compare it to another franchise many of us love: MLB theShow)

For me you fix the defense and the suck in animations and I'm golden. I'm used to faulty rotation logic, questionable trade logic, funky free agent signings, questionable tendencies in rosters and generated drafts, etc. But I've got workarounds for all of it (and 30 team control with a fine tuned Excel spreadsheet works wonders).

The past two years though I've felt the issues were game breakers almost. Last year it was transition D and big men that would pick up ballhandlers at the halfcourt leaving their man for layups or even run back under the basket out of bounds, again leaving open layups. This year it's the players getting sucked into bad animations, resulting in a disproportionate amount of points for the CPU

[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: The CPU is cheating to score on an absurd amount of possessions

Off ball or on ball, it doesn't matter. Suction happens. Aside from AI teammates not holding to their settings based assignments and CPU opponents playing beyond their ratings, here's me playing on ball. The shot went in, though I didn't show it:

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/0xvZ3ZHUKOo" allowfullscreen="" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0"></iframe>

And that is the over suctiony screen which they have to clean up.

It's not an attempt to balance the game.

[BegBy]

Re: The CPU is cheating to score on an absurd amount of possessions

Not every opinion different from yours is trolling.

The rebounding physicality is a game changer. The off ball stuff is a tool that's been needed for years. There are bugs and it will get better.

The CPU does not cheat to win. Much of this is confirmation bias.

The other stuff is a part of gaming and 2K has it's share of wonky stuff but everyone's opinion on that will vary greatly. I see more stuff happen in the cpu's favor, but I have seen plenty happen to their detriment also.

I'm specifically talking about the physics since you said it's fantastic. Like how players morph through each other. Like how you don't have to be touching a player to trigger a 2 person animation. That's why I assume you're trolling because the physics is plain awful. Like how a defender who is behind you can run into you and make you come to a dead stop while sliding through you. That's physics, and it's quite bad.

If it were used in a hockey game or football it would literally be unplayable. That's not fantastic. C'mon dude...fantastic? Gotta be trolling.

[LorenzoDC]

Re: The CPU is cheating to score on an absurd amount of possessions

And that is the over suctiony screen which they have to clean up.

It's not an attempt to balance the game.

Maybe. There's very little if any evidence of a pick being set but the movement is such an unrealistic jumble who can tell? The strong side wing man looks like he's trying to cut baseline for a dump off layup and the weak side corner shooter looks like he's trying to cut baseline to the strong side corner but gets bumped off course in traffic, and diverts to the key.

It's also true that some of the contact related sliders and tuners not even available to the user dictate how likely it is that a player will be pulled into some kind of suction/contact animation. Beluba manipulates them as part of his tuning. Plus, the game mechanics are that when the CPU performs an under the hood dice roll, it calls upon animations to represent that result in game. In 2K, animations are called upon by the game system to represent results already determined by under the hood calculations.

In my opinion, that's what happened here: the animation that popped up called for open space to shoot, and that's what then happened. The system could have, or should have, called up an animation that better represented a contested shot based on my defender's position, but it didn't. That's maybe just a bug, or it may be in part where an animation was forced into a situation where it should not have been because there are game balance factors loaded into the tuning of the game for CPU versus user. It could even be both things at once. Or it could be collision suction by the gravity of all those players playing bumper cars in the paint in the new collision system.

If this stuff only happened with screens you might be right, but we (not you, I know, but the rest of us) also srr it commonly in iso ball handler situations when the CPU has the ball. Defenders get magnet pushed to places where the controlling user has not put them.

From another perspective, I find it hard to argue, as you seem to be doing, that 2K doesn't tune and code the game with game balance in mind, especially when Beluba is in here every week getting feedback to help him keep the game balanced.

[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: The CPU is cheating to score on an absurd amount of possessions

The other stuff is a part of gaming and 2K has it's share of wonky stuff but everyone's opinion on that will vary greatly. I see more stuff happen in the cpu's favor, but I have seen plenty happen to their detriment also.

I'm specifically talking about the physics since you said it's fantastic. Like how players morph through each other. Like how you don't have to be touching a player to trigger a 2 person animation. That's why I assume you're trolling because the physics is plain awful. Like how a defender who is behind you can run into you and make you come to a dead stop while sliding through you. That's physics, and it's quite bad.

If it were used in a hockey game or football it would literally be unplayable. That's not fantastic. C'mon dude...fantastic? Gotta be trolling.

Im willing to accept your opinion without accusing you of trolling.

I base my opinions on the totality of th games I play; not just the odd example here and there.

[BegBy]

Re: The CPU is cheating to score on an absurd amount of possessions

And that is the over suctiony screen which they have to clean up.

It's not an attempt to balance the game.

Which is triggered by 2 player interactions, which is governed by...yup - the physics engine. Therefore the physics engine is not fantastic. It's really awful.

Footplanting, sliding, player movement, clipping, morphing, stumbling, each and every 2 player animation, etc are all governed by the physics engine. If these issues are a very large part of player concern, how can that be considered a fantastic element?

[LorenzoDC]

Re: The CPU is cheating to score on an absurd amount of possessions

Im willing to accept your opinion without accusing you of trolling.

I base my opinions on the totality of th games I play; not just the odd example here and there.

So you're saying that the rest of us are not basing our opinions on the totality of games we play?

Your assumption is we are irrational and cherry picking. Why do you assume that?

If we share an opinion, people tell us (rightly) to back it up with examples.

So we do some extra work to create videos, and then I guess the presumption of our incompetence or bad faith means that we're basing all of our opinions on these little outlier snippets of video, and not on the the whole set of plays and possessions in the games we play?

I wouldn't say you're trolling, I think you're honestly representing your opinion.

You just don't seem to want to accord those who disagree with you that same level of respect.

(BTW and maybe unrelated: it probably doesn't help how people perceive you when you have the word "smirk" in your handle, fairly or unfairly. Just a thought.)

[BegBy]

Re: The CPU is cheating to score on an absurd amount of possessions

Im willing to accept your opinion without accusing you of trolling.

I base my opinions on the totality of th games I play; not just the odd example here and there.

That's fair, and I appreciate it, and genuinely respect it. The only reason why I am suggesting you're trolling is because you seem like a smart dude. I just don't see how you can say the physics is fine when you actually refer to said engine failing and calling it 'suctiony' as opposed to acknowledging it for what it is. But if that's your opinion then I won't try and convince you otherwise.

I'll lay off the trolling thing. I'll take you at your word and respect it.

[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: The CPU is cheating to score on an absurd amount of possessions

So you're saying that the rest of us are not basing our opinions on the totality of games we play?

Your assumption is we are irrational and cherry picking. Why do you assume that?

If we share an opinion, people tell us (rightly) to back it up with examples.

So we do some extra work to create videos, and then I guess the presumption of our incompetence or bad faith means that we're basing all of our opinions on these little outlier snippets of video, and not on the the whole set of plays and possessions in the games we play?

I wouldn't say you're trolling, I think you're honestly representing your opinion.

You just don't seem to want to accord those who disagree with you that same level of respect.

(BTW and maybe unrelated: it probably doesn't help how people perceive you when you have the word "smirk" in your handle, fairly or unfairly. Just a thought.)

Yeah so Im going to go right and ahead and dismiss discussion about my username.

I've attempted to point out what people are seeing. For example, occasionally there were will be a suction effect with screens. It's a rare occurrence and isnt indicative of developer attempts to 'balance' the game.

BegBy, Im not suggesting it's perfect. I actually started a thread with video showing how off ball physicality can impede plays.

My point is the good far outweighs the bad.

[Optimus James]

Re: The CPU is cheating to score on an absurd amount of possessions

NVM the fanboys who cant take criticism of the game like the dude above.

If the CPU wants you to turn the ball over/steal it...it will happen. We all know that, no denying it.

You push the ball in crunch time and its automatic turnover.
You dribble near someone...

[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: The CPU is cheating to score on an absurd amount of possessions

NVM the fanboys who cant take criticism of the game like the dude above.

If the CPU wants you to turn the ball over/steal it...it will happen. We all know that, no denying it.

You push the ball in crunch time and its automatic turnover.
You dribble near someone...

It is not an automatic turnover.

Ive had games where Ive turned it over 20 times, others where its been 5.

[MadManCometh]

Re: The CPU is cheating to score on an absurd amount of possessions

Off ball or on ball, it doesn't matter. Suction happens. Aside from AI teammates not holding to their settings based assignments and CPU opponents playing beyond their ratings, here's me playing on ball. The shot went in, though I didn't show it:

<iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/0xvZ3ZHUKOo" allowfullscreen="" width="560" height="315" frameborder="0"></iframe>

Wow. That is just insane

[Sublime8992]

Re: The CPU is cheating to score on an absurd amount of possessions

I don't even think Smirkin Dirk is trolling lol. I almost went off on him last night at 3AM, but we had a pretty level-headed exchange and the dude is clearly enjoying the game. I wish he would recognize some of the stuff we're saying, and perhaps post videos/evidence to back up what he's saying, but I don't think he's necessarily trolling...

My main issue with his posts, and all 2K apologists is that they think we're ungrateful or something. The fact any of us are on this forum complaining about specific physics issues is a testament to the fact that we love basketball, love 2K, and want it to improve. I don't think anyone is coming at this from any other perspective.

Perhaps it's confirmation bias that is making me see what I'm seeing, but NBA 2K17 is the only 2K game i've ever played where I have legit quit games/shut down the console because the experience against the computer felt so cheap

I've purchased a 2K basketball game (college or NBA) every year since 2K2, the only exceptions being NBA Live 2003-2005 maybe, so I know my criticisms are valid and from a place of constructive criticism