I'd like to see better Communication and Transparency from 2K in 2K18

[LorenzoDC]

Re: I'd like to see better Communication and Transparency from 2K in 2K18

If one wants to see a microcosm of this problem, just go have a look at 2K's Official Forums... It's nothing but a wasteland of unanswered frustration and an echo chamber for people asking for feedback, with no responses.

Why even bother setting up forums if you plan to have zero interaction with your customers? Just sums up the lack of care, IMO.

Very thankful that OS exists, to say the least.

Sent from my SM-T810 using Operation Sports mobile app

These last few years, and this year especially, I have done a lot to try to answer questions and help people with how to play the game sim style in these forums.

But this year I feel like I was trying to share information that just was not there. And that means I'm basically doing work I'm not paid to do when 2k has not done it's basic part of the job to give the community some basics to work with.

I'm not eager to do that again.

So if I end up, as I expect, not buying the game until well after release next year (assuming I buy it t all), then the ripple effect on OS will be that I at least won't be doing the stuff I did this year in the wiki threads, and for the fix I found to make My League playable. No freelance offense wiki built and maintained (by me at least) throughout the cycle, and other stuff I do.

That's not about being spiteful or making threats. It's just that I put a lot of work into that stuff, and if I end up spending two or more months trying to help make a badly executed game playable for others, all inside a 2K information vacuum, I just have better things to do with my time than that.

I like helping others here but not if 2K makes it near impossible for me to do it.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: I'd like to see better Communication and Transparency from 2K in 2K18

I agree DC. Once you start isolating the guys that year to year make it a point to learn the ins and outs of the game and help others..you have a real issue. You've seen this with a lot of guys this year...it's unfortunate. I probably made a feature films worth of videos last year.

I dont want 2k to hold my hand. I dont want an explanation as to why im missing shots every time I have a bad shooting game like these guys on Twitter. (Whats frustrating is that these guys get responses)

But there is still way too much mystery around things like ACE, offensive/defensive settings. That deserves a discussion.




Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

[ph33]

Re: I'd like to see better Communication and Transparency from 2K in 2K18

A lot if us vets don't want hand holding, but I think it would be a good idea to have tutorials on Madden-tier both in and out of the game. One thing Madden's tutorials does well is explaining how and when to do things with playcalling. There are a lot of players who you can hear get frustrated when things aren't working, yet they never learn why (Shot selection, how covered you were, how to play better defense, etc.)

The community would be better off for it and I think the focus would turn to better things. But they still have to step up regardless. Please not another year of badge grinding and guessing.

[LorenzoDC]

Re: I'd like to see better Communication and Transparency from 2K in 2K18

I agree DC. Once you start isolating the guys that year to year make it a point to learn the ins and outs of the game and help others..you have a real issue. You've seen this with a lot of guys this year...it's unfortunate. I probably made a feature films worth of videos last year.

I dont want 2k to hold my hand. I dont want an explanation as to why im missing shots every time I have a bad shooting game like these guys on Twitter. (Whats frustrating is that these guys get responses)

But there is still way too much mystery around things like ACE, offensive/defensive settings. That deserves a discussion.




Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk

Last year i did a handful of freelance offense videos, and the way I do them it takes hours to study the freelance, gather the clips and put it all together into an organized, edited tutorial.

This year I only did one.

I started doing those explicitly because Czar and OG on SimHangout asked for the community to step up and provide that kind of stuff that they did not have time to do but that they were putting in the game, all for #simnation.

Now SimHangout is dead and guys like you and me who answered the call are left with no help or much of anything to work with from 2K.

I get that they are frustrated with all the negativity, but it's like anything else: what you pay attention to and respond to as a company gets amplified and grows more. Attention to trolls is a reward to the trolls, and attention to the stuff we do would reward it and encourage others to do it.

2K is discouraging constructive voices with neglect. And then they complain there are not enough positive or at least constructive voices out there. SMDH.

[trekfan]

Re: I'd like to see better Communication and Transparency from 2K in 2K18

I get that they are frustrated with all the negativity, but it's like anything else: what you pay attention to and respond to as a company gets amplified and grows more. Attention to trolls is a reward to the trolls, and attention to the stuff we do would reward it and encourage others to do it.

2K is discouraging constructive voices with neglect. And then they complain there are not enough positive or at least constructive voices out there. SMDH.

Second this in about every way, along with the OP. 2K has utterly failed in communicating with the community in any productive way -- Mike Wang has been stellar, Czar and OG have tried here and there, but there should be a dedicated team in place to legitimately answer the community's questions instead of getting #LIT thrown at us on Twitter.

2K17 is not a bad game, per say -- I really do enjoy MyLeague far more this year than last, the improvements to that game mode have streamlined a number of things. There are still legacy issues there, as well as across the game, but 2K17 isn't broken offline at least -- certainly needs things fixed, certainly needs tuning, but not broken.

That said, the lack of communication, the radio silence on multiple issues, the short and extremely uninformative patch notes (it's sad), and the gag order/muzzle they stuck on Czar and OG with their blogs is, at minimum, disappointing and just poor form on multiple fronts. Not only has it left the community searching for answers they don't have, it's caused massive splintering amongst the customer base -- this year, more than others I can recall (and this might be recency bias, don't take it as gospel) has clearly distinguished the various segments of the 2K community.

And it's felt like those various factions of the community have been working against one another as opposed to with -- and one of the reasons for that, I think, is because of the lack of communication from 2K. Any time Mike Wang or one of the devs shows up, it's an instant flood of questions and posts, a deluge of concerns. It feels like the various factions of the community are fighting one another for the attention of the devs, and that's caused a lot of friction this year.

I'm assuredly in the camp of not preordering and not buying on release for 2K18, even if 2K gets their act straight. As consumers, the almighty dollar is our only surefire method of direct communication -- if we affect the bottom line, attention will be given.

As we've seen this year, just because we have Facebook, Twitter, and OS, doesn't mean anyone's looking ... and, if they are looking, it certainly doesn't mean they're listening.

[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: I'd like to see better Communication and Transparency from 2K in 2K18

There has not been enough communication. I am still puzzled by why OG and Czar's blogs were muzzled.

But let's not forget that this forum has become fairly poisonous this year. Whether caused by frustration or perceived weaknesses in the game, any developer would have 2nd thoughts about heading to an online space that has too many immature and emotional posters.

It's one thing for a poster to point out thhat help defense isnt strong enough in situations A, B and C. But the torrent threads about the game being 'broken', or devs being lazy and greedy and trash is not helping building any bonds between the devs and this forum.

[awg811]

Re: I'd like to see better Communication and Transparency from 2K in 2K18

There has not been enough communication. I am still puzzled by why OG and Czar's blogs were muzzled.

But let's not forget that this forum has become fairly poisonous this year. Whether caused by frustration or perceived weaknesses in the game, any developer would have 2nd thoughts about heading to an online space that has too many immature and emotional posters.

It's one thing for a poster to point out thhat help defense isnt strong enough in situations A, B and C. But the torrent threads about the game being 'broken', or devs being lazy and greedy and trash is not helping building any bonds between the devs and this forum.

IMO, the reason the forum has become poisonous is because of the many flaws in almost every game mode, the lack of communication and seeming lack of interest from 2k.

We get tons of advertising and promotion from 2k, but no answers to important questions or game issues.

The reason for people claiming that the game is broken, is because, in a lot of ways, it is.
Not broken beyond repair, but broken none the less.
And what is broken we all know about.

Some will go overboard and claim that it's trash and some will say it's perfect.
The truth is it's somewhere in the middle, but not what we were told to expect.

I can see the backbone of a good game, one that delivers on their claims, but they have work to do to get it there.
Some things are as simple as tuning adjustments, but many will probably need patched. And servers have to be improved.

The simple and smart thing for 2k to do, is simply say something. Anything.

You cannot tell me that this game is not in need of repair/adjustments in almost every game mode.
Well you can, but no one will believe you.

You also cannot tell me that 2k isn't aware of every issue that we are aware of.

So, for them to be silent is strange to say the least!

[LorenzoDC]

Re: I'd like to see better Communication and Transparency from 2K in 2K18

There has not been enough communication. I am still puzzled by why OG and Czar's blogs were muzzled.

But let's not forget that this forum has become fairly poisonous this year. Whether caused by frustration or perceived weaknesses in the game, any developer would have 2nd thoughts about heading to an online space that has too many immature and emotional posters.

It's one thing for a poster to point out thhat help defense isnt strong enough in situations A, B and C. But the torrent threads about the game being 'broken', or devs being lazy and greedy and trash is not helping building any bonds between the devs and this forum.

There has been a lot of negativity, but here's the thing:

First, OS moderators do a good job, especially this year, in moderating this forum. That's especially true in threads where Beluba or Davez or Leftos show up. The ban hammer is real and never rusty.

Second, it's just not true that they don't listen and respond to negative stuff. Twitter, unlike this forum, is not moderated and is a sewer of abuse and negativity. But those guys get relatively more reaction and response. Negative stuff is virtually all of what they respond to.

If 2K wants to say that they won't respond to negativity, it's just not empirically true. So if they avoid these forums, it really can't be because there's too much negativity. This place is a British tea and scones party compared to twitter.

Based on that evidence, it seems inescapable to me that if they avoid engaging here with sim heads, it's just because they choose not to, for whatever reason.

I think it mayhave to do with their business model and definition of "community engagement" as being equivalent to marketing and PR, as the OP points out. Doing reactive brand management and rehabilitation on twitter is authorized and in the mission as currently conceived.

On the other hand, communicating in a more positive and information sharing back and forth to explain and improve the game with the power user community is not in their model, and largely discouraged if not forbidden.

Or maybe it's just that this forum is too niche and small, where twitter has more blow up potential. They do point out, and Czar just commented this weekend, that negativity and shouting generates video views, etc. You've made that point as well, and that is the nature of unmoderated, mass social media.

But if they say the power users who want to be constructive aren't around, that's wrong. We're here. As 24 points out, our ranks are thinning because they neglect to engage us. They just don't talk to us where we can be found, and the nature of being positive and constructive is such that we won't go viral.

If the only people who get attention from 2k are the ones who go viral, then 2K is like the drunk who's looking for his lost keys under the lamp post, because that's where the light is. . . even though he dropped them away up the street. And if that's the only place 2K looks and responds, that's all that people will do.

[ILLSmak]

Re: I'd like to see better Communication and Transparency from 2K in 2K18

My POV is different. We all know I am disappointed w/ 2k this year, so I won't go into that.

I do think that they may not be used to this sort of haven of fans becoming more 'toxic' to them, but I also think that they get it now. I really do. They get it. They made a game that wasn't liked.

Did they get more sales? Are they at a crossroads between appeasing their base and making money? I tend to think they probably didn't get their best sales ever... or if they did, they should know by how everyone is acting that they could have made much more.

I just hope they pay attention to suggestions going forward. Feedback isn't huge to me, nor is accountability. For instance, it seems they have tried to fix some things (like the double team) and haven't succeeded.

I am cool with saying 'they get it', by now. They don't need any more videos or threads. Of course, it's a joke for me to say that cuz I like to post the same thing over and over (hoping someone will listen...), but the issue is, to me, they're not gonna admit that their game isn't going to live up to what you want. They probably don't have good answers to a lot of the issues.

We can hope they are working on their game for next year, and even more hopefully, that they will listen to some of our awesome suggestions... because, one thing you notice from gaming is that the gamers somehow know the game better than developers, always. Just like I could have told you sharpshooter was gonna be ridiculous (and did, haha) as soon as they released the archetype ratings.

So, yea... I don't wanna be the crotchety old gamer, but I just hope that 2k can succeed and make a game that will simulate basketball.

All of the noise about VC and microtransactions will disappear once people are back into being immersed in the game.

A misstep is not unprecedented; it's how they recover.

-Smak

[NoLeafClover]

Re: I'd like to see better Communication and Transparency from 2K in 2K18

I'm curious as to if there were recent changes in the power structure at Take Two Interactive etc. in the past couple of years in terms of a new marketing exec being hired or something similar whose directive was to switch time and staff purely towards sales oriented targets vs. QA, service and other "less profitable" tasks.

Would go a long way to explaining the somewhat bizarre shift the company has taken in recent years going from the sim-heads and realism experts closely knit to the community into being as mainstream and capitalist as possible.

Will be interesting to see if they continue on this path or if NBA Live can actually come out with something decent to create competition and steal market share, although good luck on relying on EA for similar reasons...

Sent from my SM-T810 using Operation Sports mobile app

[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: I'd like to see better Communication and Transparency from 2K in 2K18

The marketing for the game is geared at casuals.

But we have teams working to give us freestyle offenses, super deep playbooks, individual player and team tendencies, deep defensive options. Not to mention the deepest offline franchise mode in sports gaming history. We can debate how successful these have been so far, but let's not pretend this is NBA Jam.

We don't get marketed to, and havent been communicated with well enough this year, but judge them by their actions. Simulation basketball is part of the core of 2K.

[NoLeafClover]

Re: I'd like to see better Communication and Transparency from 2K in 2K18

The marketing for the game is geared at casuals.

But we have teams working to give us freestyle offenses, super deep playbooks, individual player and team tendencies, deep defensive options. Not to mention the deepest offline franchise mode in sports gaming history. We can debate how successful these have been so far, but let's not pretend this is NBA Jam.

We don't get marketed to, and havent been communicated with well enough this year, but judge them by their actions. Simulation basketball is part of the core of 2K.

I get what you're saying, but them adding stuff for the sake of adding additional stuff and then not following it up with quality QA testing makes it worse than if they didn't add the new things in the first place, as you just end up with an additional layer of systems not functioning properly in conflict with one another.

A chief example is the "collisions" and "physicality" system they added in almost completely hindering all of these advanced plays from developing before the shot clock expires - it ends up as a waste of effort and cascades down to affect rotations, help defense, excess 3 second in the key calls as players get stuck, etc etc.

They need to take a "less is more" attitude if they can't cope with implementing things properly on a short dev cycle, especially if they release early like this year.

And of course, going back to the communication issue, we are all sitting here with no idea if we are going to get another gameplay patch and fix some of these problems, meaning I have no reason to not believe they will be back in the game next year, and so on...

[LorenzoDC]

Re: I'd like to see better Communication and Transparency from 2K in 2K18

I get what you're saying, but them adding stuff for the sake of adding additional stuff and then not following it up with quality QA testing makes it worse than if they didn't add the new things in the first place, as you just end up with an additional layer of systems not functioning properly in conflict with one another.

A chief example is the "collisions" and "physicality" system they added in almost completely hindering all of these advanced plays from developing before the shot clock expires - it ends up as a waste of effort and cascades down to affect rotations, help defense, excess 3 second in the key calls as players get stuck, etc etc.

They need to take a "less is more" attitude if they can't cope with implementing things properly on a short dev cycle, especially if they release early like this year.

And of course, going back to the communication issue, we are all sitting here with no idea if we are going to get another gameplay patch and fix some of these problems, meaning I have no reason to not believe they will be back in the game next year, and so on...

I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, I like that they are ambitious, and the stuff they are trying to pull off is not just srface, gimmicky stuff. . . even though they focus marketing and PR to the surface gimmicky casuals.

Czar has said a few times in the last year or two that the game is in a state now where the low hanging fruit of game play stuff that can be fixed or improved easily is all done. So now making real improvements involves root and stem level rewrites to very old code, and doing it in one cycle to deliver stuff. That's technically hard to do when everything in the game that gets changed on that deeper level by definition affects everything else.

One year is just not enough time to do root level systems work, test it and deliver it polished. This year proves that as well. The patched product out there now has basically rolled back a lot of the stuff intended to work at release in favor of a game that is a lot closer to 2K16 in how it plays. That stuff about respecting user input and dribble freedom they talked about at launch is gone, because the rest of the game and the collision systems could not balance and handle it.

What I do agree with though is they should spend this next 2K18 cycle cleaning up and nailing down what they tried to put into the game this year. I don't know where that leaves them for marketing items to feed Ronnie when the hype train has to run, but I hope they focus this year a bit more heavily on execution over new feature innovation, at least as far as game play is concerned.

[PPerfect_CJ]

Re: I'd like to see better Communication and Transparency from 2K in 2K18

Unfortunately, I feel like 2K's communication has dipped to FIFA's level. Not a good look. I just hope that this year will be a real eye-opener for them and they make an effort to improve.

[BA2929]

Re: I'd like to see better Communication and Transparency from 2K in 2K18

If 2K wants to say that they won't respond to negativity, it's just not empirically true. So if they avoid these forums, it really can't be because there's too much negativity. This place is a British tea and scones party compared to twitter.

Based on that evidence, it seems inescapable to me that if they avoid engaging here with sim heads, it's just because they choose not to, for whatever reason.

Every place on the internet is a tea party compared to Twitter replies. If you're on Twitter and you're a high profile person, you expect your mentions to be a sewer system of awfulness.

If we expect better communication in the future, we need to return that favor and be a little more respectful towards the people who make this game and come here to discuss it with us. They don't have to come here to talk to us about the game. It's not like they're going to lose massive amounts of sales if they just stopped coming to OS. We're a tiny little portion of this games community, yet we expect to be catered to like we're kings among mere mortals.