Mike Wang 4-28-17 Shooting Changes.

[alabamarob]

Re: Mike Wang 4-28-17 Shooting Changes.

Mike...for those of us on hof sim settings.. Were we supposed to change the hof sim sliders back to the default state out of the box when 3s were at 47 and mids were at 45. Currently, post tuning, the hof sim sliders are still at your suggested 37 for both 3s and mids. Please clarify if you failed to mention MLO and ML hof sim sliders needing to be readjusted to the default hof sim sliders. Or maybe you tuned the shooting percentages with the current hof sliders in mind. Either way, let me know your thoughts. The tuning may have over corrected for the OP shooting as I'm seeing regular occurrences of teams shooting in the 30s percentage wise in MLO post tuning. I will continue to provide you more feedback after a bigger sample size, but in the mean time would like some clarification of the recommended slider set on hof sim post tuning.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk

We left ours in the hof 30s and things have been realistic. Real life top to bottom for teams is 39 to 32 percent. So its good to see your lg is in the 30s. I think its great as is. What about you?

[amedawg00]

Re: Mike Wang 4-28-17 Shooting Changes.

We left ours in the hof 30s and things have been realistic. Real life top to bottom for teams is 39 to 32 percent. So its good to see your lg is in the 30s. I think its great as is. What about you?

I'm seeing alot more realistic gameplay with nothing being auto, greens being harder to come by, forcing owners in the LG to run sets other than some variation of floppy or double screens. Alot of the one trick ponies in my league are in revolt saying that the bricks are too much lol. But I am seeing percentages in the low 40s to mid to high 30s. I am loving the grind fest gameplay that the tuning has brought. Now peeps are realizing the importance of slashers, post players and two way players. For too long shooting was OP and flat out comical with how easy it was, especially baffling on hof sim. I just want Mike to clarify that the hof sim sliders should remain static in light of the tune so I can shut up all of the whining owners in my MLO who insist on raising the shooting sliders to default hof when the game shipped. It's just a vocal minority of owners who are complaining as the majority prefer the tuning, after all we are all for the most part sim heads at heart. Nonetheless, I would like confirmation from Mike on the hof sliders.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk

[blk5tar5]

Re: Mike Wang 4-28-17 Shooting Changes.

So let's get a true understanding of simulation basketball are we supposed to let the computer play defense or you play manual defense. Because, when playing online now a guy just calls a defense play either 2-3 zone or 3-2 zone or whatever button he's press to cause my players to act out wrong or weird is not basketball because in real life that wouldn't happen. So this is by all mean a VIDEO GAME a better version of NBA JAM minus HE"S ON FIRE!!!!!!!

[Rsnake21]

Re: Mike Wang 4-28-17 Shooting Changes.

I just don't understand why people want what little control we have taken away. Also the fact that pretty much nothing in the game is sim, but want the shooting to be sim. Why wouldn't you want more control of whether or not your shots go in?

[Rsnake21]

Re: Mike Wang 4-28-17 Shooting Changes.

IM strictly talking competitive pro am, I can't speak for any other mode

[alabamarob]

Re: Mike Wang 4-28-17 Shooting Changes.

I'm seeing alot more realistic gameplay with nothing being auto, greens being harder to come by, forcing owners in the LG to run sets other than some variation of floppy or double screens. Alot of the one trick ponies in my league are in revolt saying that the bricks are too much lol. But I am seeing percentages in the low 40s to mid to high 30s. I am loving the grind fest gameplay that the tuning has brought. Now peeps are realizing the importance of slashers, post players and two way players. For too long shooting was OP and flat out comical with how easy it was, especially baffling on hof sim. I just want Mike to clarify that the hof sim sliders should remain static in light of the tune so I can shut up all of the whining owners in my MLO who insist on raising the shooting sliders to default hof when the game shipped. It's just a vocal minority of owners who are complaining as the majority prefer the tuning, after all we are all for the most part sim heads at heart. Nonetheless, I would like confirmation from Mike on the hof sliders.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk

Great post. We are now entering the world of needing players who draw more then 1 defender , the value of shooters, and diversity in play calling. Open shots in real life come from having a player who draws multiple defenders, and having guys who can consistently knock down jumpers. 2k17 had conditioned us into believing that shooters in the 70s with 50 offensive consistency are consistent floor spacers, and irl they are not. Now you have to pick your plays, and rotations wisely. I am enjoying things so far.

[Beluba]

Re: Mike Wang 4-28-17 Shooting Changes.

Mike...for those of us on hof sim settings.. Were we supposed to change the hof sim sliders back to the default state out of the box when 3s were at 47 and mids were at 45. Currently, post tuning, the hof sim sliders are still at your suggested 37 for both 3s and mids. Please clarify if you failed to mention MLO and ML hof sim sliders needing to be readjusted to the default hof sim sliders. Or maybe you tuned the shooting percentages with the current hof sliders in mind. Either way, let me know your thoughts. The tuning may have over corrected for the OP shooting as I'm seeing regular occurrences of teams shooting in the 30s percentage wise in MLO post tuning. I will continue to provide you more feedback after a bigger sample size, but in the mean time would like some clarification of the recommended slider set on hof sim post tuning.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk

You really shouldn't have noticed a significant dip in your shooting %'s on HoF sliders with the recent tuners. That being said, I would still advise you guys to make whatever adjustments you want for MLO to customize the experience to your group's preferences. There's no one perfect slider set for everyone. But if you were happy with your numbers before last week, you should be able to leave the sliders alone. A notch or two up maybe if nobody is averaging at least 35%.

[hanzsomehanz]

Re: Mike Wang 4-28-17 Shooting Changes.

I just hope mike can see that this move shrunk the skill gap

I'm not sure how you got this view so how do you mean?

Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk

[hanzsomehanz]

Re: Mike Wang 4-28-17 Shooting Changes.

That's the only way to make a skill gap though. Raise open % and drop contested%.

I don't get your theory on this.. how does this create a (better) skill gap? You're hard set on saying this is the only way and I just don't think it's that extreme.

Sent from my SM-T330NU using Tapatalk

[rossi45]

Re: Mike Wang 4-28-17 Shooting Changes.

@beluba

Hey mike, honestly the game feels like playing on pro difficulty in park right now.
Me and my friend tried out all the archetypes and we both came to the conclusion, that
a) greens are at the same level they were before you started touching shooting 2-3 weeks ago.
b) non shooters seem to get green a "bit" more difficult, but bad timed shots go in very often. And with bad timed shots I mean things like half bar early.
c) you ruined the gap between sharpshooter and playmaker to a point where a sharp is not worth it, besides the speedboosting ones. My playmaker does not miss open. I don't miss! ever! it's all green when I'm open, and damn! it's easy to get a open blink with a playmaker and a brickwall

( This is PARK mode experience)

I played some pro am, and it seems a bit different, but I haven't played with my team yet to make a final conclusion.


My question to you is, are you happy with the now applied tuning? Is this the final shooting tweak? If so, what was the reason, you tweaked the shooting up that much? I know about your words, that you do only little changes on the slider that affect the game in a huge ways, and that it's not easy to find a good middle ground. But what exactly was the reason, that you turned the greens up again so much?
Is it that you were unpleased by seeing not enough greens, or was it the community's pressure on you that let you revert this things?


I mean, everyone I know was shocked about the green nerf at first. But after playing one night the shock fell away and the enjoyment kicked in.
Now after you upped the greens again, all competitive guys I know say the same thing. The game caters noobs even more then it did before you started tweaking.
Before your last "green" update, damn man! there was a huge skill gap! It was so huge, because people with a real good idea of bball had so much better chances. Cheese was nearly killed. Good players just destroyed the hell out of everyone. Now its back to a state of"dribblecheese- anklebreaker- stepback green". Everyone has to be tight guarded, which kills the basic parts of basketball strategies of helping out and so on.

I love this game so much, it's the game that I play the whole year until the next 2k releases. But I'm just so curious to find out about the "real reason", that drives you to tune the game the way it is.

Thanks in advance.

[rossi45]

Re: Mike Wang 4-28-17 Shooting Changes.

IM strictly talking competitive pro am, I can't speak for any other mode

Ok, since you talking competitive ball, lets talk it in a way where all facts come on the table. I play competitive too, having two teams with 95-15 and 80-4 record.

1. Are you pleased with the shooting %? especially limitless range and non shooting archetypes?
- what's your opinion on my friends lockdown defender and our glasscleaner dropping >70% 3's in a span of 85 games?
- every skilled sharp can green from far away, so the % on limitless are AT LEAST 75% for us.

2. Why do you say that everything else is not sim either? What exactly are the things you mean with "not being sim"?
I only can imagine that you talk about the Inside dunking tendency, which maybe is a little bit to high. But really, it's not that much from my standpoint.

3. Pro am offenses - we have 2 main schemes of offenses played by top teams.
a ) 5 out with a great pg doing Isos all game and punish every help, by kicking the ball to one of the other 4 players standing around the arc.
- this is no real basketball strategy, because if the shooting would be as it SHOULD BE. This would be fixed with shooting getting lower % and would force people to play real basketball.

b) 2 guys in the corner one guy at the hashmark taking limitless range shots ( ME ) and pg / a Brickwall Center doing pick and rolls.
- Lowering percentages would fix the excessive long range shooting, forcing me to mix it up to stay effective.
- it would fix the point guard cheese around the brickwall, by giving you the opportunity to go under the brick wall. Our playmaker is a really great cheesehead and man, no one can stop him doing his thing in the pick and roll in the current state. The only way to defend his 3-Ball is to leave the rolling big open and switch. Out of the pick and roll our playmaker hits at least 75% of his shots.

These 2 offensive schemes are totally CRAP! But every top team I know plays this way, because this is a way, you can cheese the game.

Don't you see, that the shooting being so easy, opens up the door for the game be "non sim"?
Do you think exaggerated speedboosting would matter if you would know that shooting % are under 60%?
Don't you see, that with a slight nerf in shooting, the inside game gets more viable? I mean, we score inside points in the current state too. But the only reason for this is, because everyone can shoot like a god and you have to play so tight.

I totally disagree with you that the game is "non-sim" everywhere.
It's the shooting and maybe the inside dunking with low ratings.
Speedboosting is fine, but the exaggerated % on shooting make it stupid and non-sim.

[Johnnythelegend]

Re: Mike Wang 4-28-17 Shooting Changes.

I was watching the game and when i saw Beverley miss this i immediately thought of this thread. Look how wide open Beverley is and guess what, he missed it. But hey, when you are open you shouldn't miss.

[rossi45]

Re: Mike Wang 4-28-17 Shooting Changes.

I feel like the whole discussion is a big waste of time.
Deep in my heart I feel, that Mike totally knows, what kind of game he wants to have. But I feel like he either has no choice then follow the "non-sim" community, or he has no idea how that game plays after his tunings.

It's so obvious that shooting is and was broken nearly the whole year by being WAY TO EASY.
But as soon as he nerfs it a slight bit, the update never stays longer then two days, because everyone is going nuts.

@ above

this beverly thing would NEVER happen to a skilled player in 2k, besides his game lagged in the moment of the shot. And the funny thing about is.. this happens all the time in real life, not only to beverly, no, it happens to everyone. Yes, even to Steph himself

[Rsnake21]

Re: Mike Wang 4-28-17 Shooting Changes.

Ok, since you talking competitive ball, lets talk it in a way where all facts come on the table. I play competitive too, having two teams with 95-15 and 80-4 record.

1. Are you pleased with the shooting %? especially limitless range and non shooting archetypes?
- what's your opinion on my friends lockdown defender and our glasscleaner dropping >70% 3's in a span of 85 games?
- every skilled sharp can green from far away, so the % on limitless are AT LEAST 75% for us.

2. Why do you say that everything else is not sim either? What exactly are the things you mean with "not being sim"?
I only can imagine that you talk about the Inside dunking tendency, which maybe is a little bit to high. But really, it's not that much from my standpoint.

3. Pro am offenses - we have 2 main schemes of offenses played by top teams.
a ) 5 out with a great pg doing Isos all game and punish every help, by kicking the ball to one of the other 4 players standing around the arc.
- this is no real basketball strategy, because if the shooting would be as it SHOULD BE. This would be fixed with shooting getting lower % and would force people to play real basketball.

b) 2 guys in the corner one guy at the hashmark taking limitless range shots ( ME ) and pg / a Brickwall Center doing pick and rolls.
- Lowering percentages would fix the excessive long range shooting, forcing me to mix it up to stay effective.
- it would fix the point guard cheese around the brickwall, by giving you the opportunity to go under the brick wall. Our playmaker is a really great cheesehead and man, no one can stop him doing his thing in the pick and roll in the current state. The only way to defend his 3-Ball is to leave the rolling big open and switch. Out of the pick and roll our playmaker hits at least 75% of his shots.

These 2 offensive schemes are totally CRAP! But every top team I know plays this way, because this is a way, you can cheese the game.

Don't you see, that the shooting being so easy, opens up the door for the game be "non sim"?
Do you think exaggerated speedboosting would matter if you would know that shooting % are under 60%?
Don't you see, that with a slight nerf in shooting, the inside game gets more viable? I mean, we score inside points in the current state too. But the only reason for this is, because everyone can shoot like a god and you have to play so tight.

I totally disagree with you that the game is "non-sim" everywhere.
It's the shooting and maybe the inside dunking with low ratings.
Speedboosting is fine, but the exaggerated % on shooting make it stupid and non-sim.

Nothing else in the game is sim( pro am). The steals, the dunks, the bump animations, throwing the ball 10 feet out of bounds on an easy pass, refs on the court knocking you out of bounds, etc I could go on. You're right about playmaker 5 out cheese that's not sim but neither is letting any player wide open in the corner or deep midrange. The teams I've played against you got lucky if you got an open look and now if there's only a 50% chance at best it's going in you can't make them pay for bad d. Even when shooting was at an all time high, getting contested made it almost impossible to hit from 3. So if your lockdowns and gc were >70% they were taking advantage of terrible defense

[willd1790]

Re: Mike Wang 4-28-17 Shooting Changes.

I haven't been on Pro-Am within the last week, but I have been playing on MyLeague Online.

I'm currently in 3 separate leagues. We play on HOF, but have had to experiment with the sliders.

Problems I see are that it is harder to green jump shots. Even with players who have 90 3 pt.

The current understanding, is if it ain't green, it ain't going in.

With the shot feedback on, you can see a full white bar shot while being open grade out as a D+. If someone with a 78ish 3 pt shot gets a slightly early on a 3 pt shot, the announcers will be like "What was he thinking" or they will be like " He, takes a three!?!?!". I know 78 isn't deadeye, but I believe that should be respectable. Then they're times when I take a shot with a good shooter. The announcer will say "He's wide open", The grade will still be a D+ and the announcers will be like "How did he miss that". These aren't bad releases im talking about. These are shots where you have to move up to the TV to see the gap between the white bar and the end of the meter.

I have no problem with greens being harder. But if I get a slightly early on a wide open shot with someone with a 80+ 3, the shot grade should be higher than a D or C-

looking at team statistics. Most teams were around the 50%-40% range. Not realistic, but not that bad considering its a video game. Now people are mostly in the low 30s and 20s