Shooting percentages in NBA 2K17 are vastly inflated. Blame the terrible defenses

[JohnTaylor]

Re: Shooting percentages in NBA 2K17 are vastly inflated. Blame the terrible defenses

This games only problem is not the green release but the animations.

Brick wall animations, ankle breaker animations, and speed-boosting animation cancels.

If those weren't in the game, you will see less greens because in this game, you can't green well-contested shots unless they were late contest.

[Rsnake21]

Re: Shooting percentages in NBA 2K17 are vastly inflated. Blame the terrible defenses

Well that's what 2K has always pre-2k15. Only 2 out of the 18 games have had the green release 100 percent system been.



Dude you are completely oversimplifying the game of basketball here lol. You're reducing it to nothing but a jumpshooting contest.

I mean yeah hypothetically if we both take 10 jumpshots and you make more you're "more skilled." But 2K isn't played like that. If you're jumpshot isn't falling you have the option of taking the ball inside of the paint and getting to the free throw line. You can go 2 for 10 and still win the game.

And I just want to say that you're really exaggerating the effect that not having green releases would have on gameplay. I've played 2K for years before the meter was introduced in 2K15, and I can tell you that as long as you timed your jumper right and had a decent rated shooter, more often than not you would hit your jumpshot if you were wide open.

I don't think I've ever had games where I would take quality shots that were timed right and the game would decide to screw me over and have me go 0/10 or something. That was never a thing in pre-2K15 games lol.

We're not talking about the game of basketball lol. This thread is about jumpshot %'s being inflated because of poor defense, which is 100% accurate btw. I've definitely had games with full white bar and shot 2-8 or 3-10. But that's another point we disagree on, in my example you are willing to concede that I was the more skilled player. I would say were screwed over by 2k.

[Beluba]

Re: Shooting percentages in NBA 2K17 are vastly inflated. Blame the terrible defenses

Good discussion. Just wanted to chime in and dispel the notion that "white bars" are completely left to chance. That's simply not true. Shot timing multipliers work on a gradient outside of green releases. Every frame you're off from the green release window, either early or late, will deduct from your shot %. Sure, it's possible to miss a very high % shot or make a very low % shot on a given attempt - that's just the nature of probability. But the math always equalizes over time. I don't want to go into details of how the system works under the hood and reveal our trade secrets, but it's not a simple dice roll controlling your fate. We went away from that years ago because there were way too many random outcomes.

I've explained this before, but the problem with automatic make greens is that it completely flattens out the shot %'s. A green release will turn a 40% shot to 99.9999%, but it will do the same thing for a 65% shot. That's why if I remove greens it actually widens the skill gap and makes shot attributes and shot selection much more important, and the better shooters (those who take high quality shots with high attributes and good timing) will rise to the top. That's becoming more and more evident in Pro-AM after the recent tuners.

[Rsnake21]

Re: Shooting percentages in NBA 2K17 are vastly inflated. Blame the terrible defenses

Good discussion. Just wanted to chime in and dispel the notion that "white bars" are completely left to chance. That's simply not true. Shot timing multipliers work on a gradient outside of green releases. Every frame you're off from the green release window, either early or late, will deduct from your shot %. Sure, it's possible to miss a very high % shot or make a very low % shot on a given attempt - that's just the nature of probability. But the math always equalizes over time. I don't want to go into details of how the system works under the hood and reveal our trade secrets, but it's not a simple dice roll controlling your fate. We went away from that years ago because there were way too many random outcomes.

I've explained this before, but the problem with automatic make greens is that it completely flattens out the shot %'s. A green release will turn a 40% shot to 99.9999%, but it will do the same thing for a 65% shot. That's why if I remove greens it actually widens the skill gap and makes shot attributes and shot selection much more important, and the better shooters (those who take high quality shots with high attributes and good timing) will rise to the top. That's becoming more and more evident in Pro-AM after the recent tuners.

I appreciate you chiming in on the subject mike. Maybe I can express my pov better, I don't believe you can just change open jumpshots to be more sim and keep everything else the same. For the game to play more " realistic" you would have to dramatically increase contested shot% which would make playing good defense far less valuable. IMO that would make this "game" because that's what it is, way less fun to play. Before the update if you didn't want shooters to hit shots there was a simple way to stop it, play defense. No it wasn't "real" but it put the most control over the outcome in the players hands

[ILLSmak]

Re: Shooting percentages in NBA 2K17 are vastly inflated. Blame the terrible defenses

Lol people act like jumpshooting is the end all be all on offense. How about taking the ball into the paint if your shots aren't falling?

Jumpshooting should be a dice roll. That's how it is in real life. Haven't people ever heard the term "Live by the jumper die by the jumper"? You're jumper isn't always going to be there. Nobody in the NBA has found a way to guarantee that their jumpshot will go in 100 percent. That's why your boy Curry can have nights where he goes 0-11. That's why the whole idea of a green release 100 percent make is laughable to me.

The point of an NBA offense is to put the players in position to get the best shot possible.

yea w/ shooting like this, basically the best offensive strategy is always going to be a pick and roll or iso w/ everyone spacing.

I don't say this lightly, but of all of the bball games I've played online (at least sim ones), this is by far the easiest 3 point shooting has ever been. It's the only game I've ever played where everyone can hit.

I do agree that contesting needs to be looked at, too. Need more fouls also. I think the game would be fine if they added in a height penalty or a height/strength penalty. 6'8 slashers or LDDs hitting 3s doesn't bother me. But having the 7'3 C out there shooting like anyone else does. That's really what ruins it, for me.

I know one can say, as a big, I am just mad to have to go out there. Probably is partly true, but the whole game will change. It will become more dynamic if the shooting just changes. Dudes might have to post up, or cut more, or set off ball screens, curl off of someone, give n go, etc. And most of all... PASS. People might have to make a pass that doesn't immediately result in an assist.

That's the biggest downfall of 2k online. Most people only will pass when they think you can score. That's proof that the game is flawed, to me. And it's learned thru this set picks and/or space the floor iso game.

-Smak

[ILLSmak]

Re: Shooting percentages in NBA 2K17 are vastly inflated. Blame the terrible defenses

Double post, regarding contests:

I think they need to make a contest relate more to the defense you played before the actual shot. I don't know exactly how they would do that, but let's say you cut off someone 3 times in a row and somehow they zig zag around and get an 'open shot' that'd be a harder shot a lot of the time.

Where as if you have the ball and you are dribbling it, and pull up on someone after a few moves you planned (and the defender doesn't change what you wanna do), but they come within a second of getting a hand on your shot, that'd not a *good* shot, but it can be a decent shot. People make shots like that a lot.

So, there needs to be more than just open/not open.

-Smak

[Dione2014]

Re: Shooting percentages in NBA 2K17 are vastly inflated. Blame the terrible defenses

Double post, regarding contests:

I think they need to make a contest relate more to the defense you played before the actual shot. I don't know exactly how they would do that, but let's say you cut off someone 3 times in a row and somehow they zig zag around and get an 'open shot' that'd be a harder shot a lot of the time.

Where as if you have the ball and you are dribbling it, and pull up on someone after a few moves you planned (and the defender doesn't change what you wanna do), but they come within a second of getting a hand on your shot, that'd not a *good* shot, but it can be a decent shot. People make shots like that a lot.

So, there needs to be more than just open/not open.

-Smak

Now this is a great idea. 2K... Do this! lbs

[Papishampooito]

Re: Shooting percentages in NBA 2K17 are vastly inflated. Blame the terrible defenses

I totally get where you coming from and I'm talking strictly as a pro am player. Nobody bought 2k, bought vc and grinded countless hours to become Tristan Thompson or Marcus Smart. Should ldd and gc hit 3's like curry? Of course not, but they should be able to punish defense for leaving em wide open. Sharps can't even hit consistently when wide open

What's wrong with Tristan Thompson and Marcus smart? You'd be lucky to be as good as them those guys are ballers show some respect.

[Beluba]

Re: Shooting percentages in NBA 2K17 are vastly inflated. Blame the terrible defenses

Double post, regarding contests:

I think they need to make a contest relate more to the defense you played before the actual shot. I don't know exactly how they would do that, but let's say you cut off someone 3 times in a row and somehow they zig zag around and get an 'open shot' that'd be a harder shot a lot of the time.

Where as if you have the ball and you are dribbling it, and pull up on someone after a few moves you planned (and the defender doesn't change what you wanna do), but they come within a second of getting a hand on your shot, that'd not a *good* shot, but it can be a decent shot. People make shots like that a lot.

So, there needs to be more than just open/not open.

-Smak

We already do this for layups, probably could apply something similar to jumpers.

[Baebae32]

Re: Shooting percentages in NBA 2K17 are vastly inflated. Blame the terrible defenses

Good discussion. Just wanted to chime in and dispel the notion that "white bars" are completely left to chance. That's simply not true. Shot timing multipliers work on a gradient outside of green releases. Every frame you're off from the green release window, either early or late, will deduct from your shot %. Sure, it's possible to miss a very high % shot or make a very low % shot on a given attempt - that's just the nature of probability. But the math always equalizes over time. I don't want to go into details of how the system works under the hood and reveal our trade secrets, but it's not a simple dice roll controlling your fate. We went away from that years ago because there were way too many random outcomes.

I've explained this before, but the problem with automatic make greens is that it completely flattens out the shot %'s. A green release will turn a 40% shot to 99.9999%, but it will do the same thing for a 65% shot. That's why if I remove greens it actually widens the skill gap and makes shot attributes and shot selection much more important, and the better shooters (those who take high quality shots with high attributes and good timing) will rise to the top. That's becoming more and more evident in Pro-AM after the recent tuners.

Remove the greens and let the masses adjust Mike. Wont even be a topic of discussion by 2k19 if you remain firm on your decision.

[jk31]

Re: Shooting percentages in NBA 2K17 are vastly inflated. Blame the terrible defenses

Yeah, please remove green releases equaling 99.99999% makes.

[Rsnake21]

Re: Shooting percentages in NBA 2K17 are vastly inflated. Blame the terrible defenses

I wonder if you can chime in on this Mike. I'm not sure how green releases work now or before the patch as far as frequency goes but it seemed to me pre update everyone no matter the rating had the same chance of getting a perfect release. I wonder if there's a way to make the higher the rating the bigger sweet spot and vice versa

[Beluba]

Re: Shooting percentages in NBA 2K17 are vastly inflated. Blame the terrible defenses

I wonder if you can chime in on this Mike. I'm not sure how green releases work now or before the patch as far as frequency goes but it seemed to me pre update everyone no matter the rating had the same chance of getting a perfect release. I wonder if there's a way to make the higher the rating the bigger sweet spot and vice versa

Shot timing windows (including perfect release) scale based on shot %. So what you're describing is already implemented. Basically, when your shot % gets below a certain number, the perfect window reduces to a sub frame value, making it impossible to hit. Problem is, once you've crossed that threshold, hitting the green release window becomes the same for everybody.

[Rsnake21]

Re: Shooting percentages in NBA 2K17 are vastly inflated. Blame the terrible defenses

I'm mainly talking about wide open shots. Maybe we're saying the same thing but for example. Say a 95 open 3 rating would have a 5% sweet spot on his release to get green where a 50 open 3 rating would have 1%. Obviously those numbers are just an example

[Noxx2k]

Re: Shooting percentages in NBA 2K17 are vastly inflated. Blame the terrible defenses

I would just get rid of the green release. If you time it right, based on your stats, the shot will go in 6/10, 4/10, 1/10.

I know it's hard to implement that things, but it would make it so much more realistic.

I mean, Steph is the best shooter we ever witnessed- and he ain't shooting 80%


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