NBA 2K18 Roster Update Details (11-15)

[Real2KInsider]

Re: NBA 2K18 Roster Update Details (11-15)

The Rockets are right there with the Warriors but you wouldn't know it from their rating disparities.

Houston Rockets (2nd Overall, 2nd Offense, 7th Defense)

STARTERS
84/C Clint Capela (26.0 PER) - UNDERRATED
78/PF Ryan Anderson (13.9 PER)
76/SF Trevor Ariza (12.4 PER)
95/SG James Harden (30.6 PER)
91/PG Chris Paul (24.6 PER)
BENCH
83/SG Eric Gordon (14.8 PER) - OVERRATED
76/SF P.J. Tucker (9.8 PER)
75/PF Luc Mbah a Moute (11.3 PER)
77/C Nene (21.1 PER) - UNDERRATED
73/C Tarik Black (16.5 PER)
70/PG Bobby Brown
68/PG Demetrius Jackson
69/C Zhou Qi
RESERVE
71/SF Troy Williams
70/PG Briante Weber
69/C Chinanu Onuaku

TEAM NOTES
1. Capela leads the league with 67 FG%. His rebound rate skyrocketed this season to 35 DRB%, good for 2nd in the NBA. He’s 5th in Blocks (5.9%) and 8th in ORB% (14.6). He’s the Tyson Chandler that Mike D’Antoni’s teams have always lacked.

2. I’ve seen Gordon get a lot of credit for the Rockets success but he’s shooting 39% from the field, 32% from deep, and doesn’t really bring much beyond his scoring.

3. Nene is shooting 68% from the field. His FG% progression over the last six years: 48, 50, 51, 54, 62, 68. He has thrived in a bench role over the last few years.

[Real2KInsider]

Re: NBA 2K18 Roster Update Details (11-15)

Los Angeles Clippers (20th Overall, 10th Offense, 20th Defense)

STARTERS
84/C DeAndre Jordan (18.1 PER) - OVERRATED
87/PF Blake Griffin (20.7 PER) - OVERRATED
70/SF Wesley Johnson (12.3 PER) - UNDERRATED
76/SG Austin Rivers (10.4 PER)
83/PG Lou Williams (20.3 PER)
BENCH
68/SG Sindarius Thornwell (7.5 PER) - UNDERRATED
76/C Willie Reed (22.1 PER) - UNDERRATED
73/PF Sam Dekker (11.0 PER)
68/PG Jawun Evans (7.1 PER) - UNDERRATED
74/C Montrezl Harrell (22.6 PER) - UNDERRATED
65/SG C.J. Williams
70/PF Brice Johnson
66/SF Jamil Wilson
RESERVE
78/SF Danilo Gallinari (11.3 PER) - ETA December
77/PG Milos Tedosic - ETA January
78/PG Patrick Beverley (13.2 PER) - OUT FOR SEASON

TEAM NOTES
1. It should not surprise anyone that the departure of Chris Paul has greatly affected DeAndre Jordan. Jordan led the league in FG% for FIVE consecutive seasons with Chris Paul, including 71% last season - he is down to 66 FG% this year. Jordan is also posting the worst block rate of his career (2.9%, down from 4.3% last year and 5.1% for his career). His turnovers have also shot up to their pre-CP heights.

2. Griffin started off the season hot, but poor shooting has caught up to him. He’s shooting only 38% from the field over his last 10 games. His season could potentially be over pending the state of his recent knee injury (which would kick off a team-wide firesale).

3. Wesley Johnson is quietly having a career year, which is good timing, because last year was probably the worst of his career. 59 TS% up from 45 TS% basically says it all.

4. Thornwell isn’t great but he’s effectively the team’s sixth man due to all the injuries. He ranks 7th on the team in minutes. Ditto for Jawun Evans, being in an NBA rotation effectively guarantees a player should be rated outside of the 60s.

5. Reed and Harrell are super efficient as always. Reed boasts a 71 TS% while Harrell has rebounded well above rate (13.6 ORB%, 24.3 DRB%).

6. Gallinari is shooting 36% and 26% from deep.

[BlueJays09]

Re: NBA 2K18 Roster Update Details (11-15)

Rashidi, do you do a custom roster based on your formulas?


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[DreamAgain]

Re: NBA 2K18 Roster Update Details (11-15)

I factor in defense. Bradley isn't as good on that end as you think. It's not a coincidence the Celtics went from 13th to 1st defensively since parting ways. Detroit on the other hand slipped from 8th to 14th.

Bradley is a better player than KCP but he is far from the only reason behind Detroit's resurgence. It's the improved play of Drummond, Harris, and especially Reggie Jackson.

Jackson
2016: 19.6 PER
2017: 14.9 PER
2018: 19.3 PER

Ohh man but PER is a garbage stat that doesn't mean anything!

2016: 19.6 PER (54 TS%, 36 AST%, 29 USG%)
2017: 14.9 PER (51 TS%, 30 AST%, 26 USG%)
2018: 19.3 PER (56 TS%, 34 AST%, 25 USG%)

Hmmm yah PER certainly didn't measure anything here!

When you're done being emotional about your favorite players lmk

Okay first of all, there's this player called Isaiah Thomas. He's like 4 feet tall and the worst defender in the NBA. Him leaving might have something to do with Boston becoming a better defensive team.

PER is an extremely harsh statistic against off-ball glue guys such as Avery Bradley.

You cite the players PER with every single rating as it's obviously your primary tool in determining whether or not a player is "overrated" which is complete nonsense. For example, Bradley averaging 2.9 rebounds a game next to complete monsters like Drummond (where it's extremely irrelevant for him to even get rebounds most of the time) is pointless. PER rewards players tremendously for getting to the FT line, again, Bradley is an off-ball player.

Kyle Korver has never finished a season with an above average PER in his entire career yet we all know he's extremely impactful.

Iggy didn't have an above average PER once since joining Golden State and he was by far one of their biggest contributing factors - especially in the playoffs - before KD arrived.

PER rewards ball dominant high USG stat stuffers. Those players typically also are our superstars but it isn't very useful when gauging high-impact roleplayers. Gary Harris barely has an above average PER despite shooting 50% from the field and 44% from 3 this season meanwhile Kenneth Faried hovers around that 20 PER mark every season because he grabs some rebounds and dunks the ball a few times while playing ****ty defense and contributing absolutely nothing else.

[Real2KInsider]

Re: NBA 2K18 Roster Update Details (11-15)

PER is an extremely harsh statistic against off-ball glue guys such as Avery Bradley.

It must be SOOOOOOO hard to consciously factor that into an evaluation.

You cite the players PER with every single rating as it's obviously your primary tool in determining whether or not a player is "overrated"

Help! How do I rub my head and tummy at the same time? Especially if I'm already chewing bubble gum while walking???

[Real2KInsider]

Re: NBA 2K18 Roster Update Details (11-15)

Los Angeles Lakers

STARTERS
81/C Brook Lopez (17.6 PER)
78/PF Larry Nance (19.1 PER) - UNDERRATED
77/SF Brandon Ingram (12.2 PER) - OVERRATED
76/SG Kentavious Caldwell-Pope (12.9 PER)
77/PG Lonzo Ball (10.0 PER) - OVERRATED
BENCH
77/PF Kyle Kuzma (15.5 PER)
79/PG Jordan Clarkson (19.7 PER) - UNDERRATED
77/C Julius Randle (17.2 PER)
70/SF Corey Brewer (9.6 PER)
69/SG Josh Hart (7.4 PER)
73/C Andrew Bogut (10.4 PER)
72/PG Tyler Ennis
68/PG Alex Caruso
RESERVE
73/SF Luol Deng
75/C Ivica Zubac
68/SG Vander Blue
68/C Thomas Bryant

TEAM NOTES
1. Nance leads the Lakers with 64 TS%, 10 ORB%, 3.2 STL%

2. Ingram is a below average shooter from pretty much anywhere outside of three feet. He still has a lot of developing to do to even be an average starter.

3. Lonzo Ball: 37 TS%, 30 FG%, 25 3PT%, 43 FT%. I don’t care what his name is or where he was drafted. He’s the worst shooting starter of the last 20 years.

4. Clarkson is having a career year but his minutes are limited by Rajon Rondo’s stepson.

[Real2KInsider]

Re: NBA 2K18 Roster Update Details (11-15)

PER rewards ball dominant high USG stat stuffers

Did you miss the 10 or so years that Kobe's OVR was 95+? Or Iverson 90+?

OVR weighs Usage quite heavily. Off-ball players have typically always had low OVR ratings which is nothing new, though this is besides the point.

You can argue until you're blue in the face that Avery Bradley is remotely close to Victor Oladipo (which is effectively what you're trying to do). The irony is you won't sing, say, Courtney Lee's praises - using your same arguments you would advocate for rating him higher than Tim Hardaway Jr!
And you won't defend J.R. Smith - hey, it's not HIS fault he's only taken 12 free throws in 21 games!

Those players NOT being able to effectively create an efficient shot SHOULD affect their OVR rating given that the benefits to being ABLE to create one's shot on a basketball court are.... what's the word... oh right.... "Obvious".

[8KB24]

Re: NBA 2K18 Roster Update Details (11-15)

Los Angeles Lakers

STARTERS
81/C Brook Lopez (17.6 PER)
78/PF Larry Nance (19.1 PER) - UNDERRATED
77/SF Brandon Ingram (12.2 PER) - OVERRATED
76/SG Kentavious Caldwell-Pope (12.9 PER)
77/PG Lonzo Ball (10.0 PER) - OVERRATED
BENCH
77/PF Kyle Kuzma (15.5 PER)
79/PG Jordan Clarkson (19.7 PER) - UNDERRATED
77/C Julius Randle (17.2 PER)
70/SF Corey Brewer (9.6 PER)
69/SG Josh Hart (7.4 PER)
73/C Andrew Bogut (10.4 PER)
72/PG Tyler Ennis
68/PG Alex Caruso
RESERVE
73/SF Luol Deng
75/C Ivica Zubac
68/SG Vander Blue
68/C Thomas Bryant

TEAM NOTES
1. Nance leads the Lakers with 64 TS%, 10 ORB%, 3.2 STL%

2. Ingram is a below average shooter from pretty much anywhere outside of three feet. He still has a lot of developing to do to even be an average starter.

3. Lonzo Ball: 37 TS%, 30 FG%, 25 3PT%, 43 FT%. I don’t care what his name is or where he was drafted. He’s the worst shooting starter of the last 20 years.

4. Clarkson is having a career year but his minutes are limited by Rajon Rondo’s stepson.

Oh I am so happy you made your little report on Lakers. Thank you.

First of all - Randle is underrated. Heavily. Lonzo is not underrated. 77 is where he should be. Nance's, Ingram's defense should be upgraded.

Ingram has average ballhandling for SF position. He can pass the rock and is good defender. DEFINITELY not overrated.

Shooting is only one part of being an NBA player and Lonzo is at least average in every other category so him being 77 is justified.

Would like to know how would you rate his other skills from A to F(y'know, passing, rebounding, on ball defense, off ball defense)

Same goes for Randle.

Clarkson is underrated but few years of ball-hogging and god-awful defense is just tough to ignore so maybe...ye I'd give you a nod for underrated.

[jeebs9]

Re: NBA 2K18 Roster Update Details (11-15)

Did you miss the 10 or so years that Kobe's OVR was 95+? Or Iverson 90+?

OVR weighs Usage quite heavily. Off-ball players have typically always had low OVR ratings which is nothing new, though this is besides the point.

You can argue until you're blue in the face that Avery Bradley is remotely close to Victor Oladipo (which is effectively what you're trying to do). The irony is you won't sing, say, Courtney Lee's praises - using your same arguments you would advocate for rating him higher than Tim Hardaway Jr!
And you won't defend J.R. Smith - hey, it's not HIS fault he's only taken 12 free throws in 21 games!

Those players NOT being able to effectively create an efficient shot SHOULD affect their OVR rating given that the benefits to being ABLE to create one's shot on a basketball court are.... what's the word... oh right.... "Obvious".

Could you do the 2001-02 Nets? Pretty please?.... I want to know if we're on the same page for that.

[BluFu]

Re: NBA 2K18 Roster Update Details (11-15)

Could you do the 2001-02 Nets? Pretty please?.... I want to know if we're on the same page for that.

Probably not; PER doesn't capture what made that team special.

Have you seen the new update though? Kittles and Kenyon both got a bump.

[DreamAgain]

Re: NBA 2K18 Roster Update Details (11-15)

Did you miss the 10 or so years that Kobe's OVR was 95+? Or Iverson 90+?

OVR weighs Usage quite heavily. Off-ball players have typically always had low OVR ratings which is nothing new, though this is besides the point.

You can argue until you're blue in the face that Avery Bradley is remotely close to Victor Oladipo (which is effectively what you're trying to do). The irony is you won't sing, say, Courtney Lee's praises - using your same arguments you would advocate for rating him higher than Tim Hardaway Jr!
And you won't defend J.R. Smith - hey, it's not HIS fault he's only taken 12 free throws in 21 games!

Those players NOT being able to effectively create an efficient shot SHOULD affect their OVR rating given that the benefits to being ABLE to create one's shot on a basketball court are.... what's the word... oh right.... "Obvious".

Except for the fact that JR smith isn't efficient at shooting the ball you ****ing moron.

When they won the championship he was a great 3+D player and deserved a high 70's to low 80's rating however.

Lee absolutely deserves a rating higher than 75 and I guarantee he will receive a boost next update, or soon.

[jeebs9]

Re: NBA 2K18 Roster Update Details (11-15)

Probably not; PER doesn't capture what made that team special.

Have you seen the new update though? Kittles and Kenyon both got a bump.

WHAT!? I must of missed it. I'll check it in a few. Thanks for the heads up.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[jeebs9]

Re: NBA 2K18 Roster Update Details (11-15)

Except for the fact that JR smith isn't efficient at shooting the ball you ****ing moron.

When they won the championship he was a great 3+D player and deserved a high 70's to low 80's rating however.

Lee absolutely deserves a rating higher than 75 and I guarantee he will receive a boost next update, or soon.

No name calling please. Let's he keep it clean.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

[Real2KInsider]

Re: NBA 2K18 Roster Update Details (11-15)

Could you do the 2001-02 Nets? Pretty please?.... I want to know if we're on the same page for that.

*Sigh*
I'll bite

2002 Nets (5th Overall, 17th Offense, 1st Defense)

STARTERS
71/C Todd MacCulloch (17.7 PER) - UNDERRATED
82/PF Kenyon Martin (14.5 PER) - OVERRATED
82/SF Keith Van Horn (16.0 PER)
80/SG Kerry Kittles (16.1 PER)
92/PG Jason Kidd (19.1 PER) - OVERRATED
BENCH
77/SF Richard Jefferson (13.4 PER)
X/SG Lucious Harris (15.7 PER)
X/PF Aaron Williams (15.2 PER)
X/C Jason Collins (10.7 PER)
X/PG Anthony Johnson (11.8 PER)
70/PF Brian Scalabrine
X/SF Donny Marshall

DISCLAIMER: Jason Kidd is my favorite player in NBA history.

2002 was a weird time in the NBA. 1999-2003 featured some of the worst NBA Finalists in NBA history due to an extremely lopsided talent distribution among the East/West. The Nets went to back to back Finals not because they were a great team but because they were quite literally the ONLY good team in the Conference. The reality is these Nets teams were similar to the the mediocre/good Suns teams that Jason Kidd had been playing on years prior, but got to play additional playoff games due to geography rather than actual performance.

2002 Team SRS
7.61 Kings (61-21)
7.15 Lakers (58-24)
6.28 Spurs (58-24)
4.41 Mavs (57-25)
3.67 Nets (52-30)
3.58 Wolves (50-32)
3.24 Sonics (45-37)
3.21 Blazers (49-33)
1.75 Celtics (49-33)
1.69 Pistons (50-32)

The Nets most likely would have lost in the first round if they were located in the west, but instead were overwhelmingly favored to make the Finals as the only thing resembling a "contender" in the conference.

Some 2017 Context
11.35 Warriors (67-15) - A top 3 team in NBA history
7.13 Spurs (61-21)
5.84 Rockets (55-27)
4.42 Clippers (51-31)
4.00 Jazz (51-31)
3.65 Raptors (51-31)
2.87 Cavaliers (51-31)
2.25 Celtics (53-29)
1.36 Wizards (49-33)
1.14 Thunder (47-35)

Similarly, the top teams in the East were a clear rung below the top west teams. Losing in the Finals does not mean a team was the 2nd best team. This is a grain of salt that needs to be taken into account when evaluating both this Nets team and Iverson's Sixer team. For some additional historical perspective, the 2017 Cavs passed the Sixers to become the new "worst team in NBA history to make the Finals" (outside of the 8th seed Knicks in the bizarre 99 lockout year).

---------------

I love Jason Kidd but 39% shooting (32 3pt%) is a real weakness. He isn't Chris Paul or Magic Johnson. The team was 17th offensively and any team with a PG that kind of limitation is always going to be hard-capped on this end (for reference see Rondo, Rajon). Kidd made up for it by being one of the best defensive PGs of all-time (if not the best overall, when you factor rebounding).

Kidd finished 2nd in MVP voting and at the time I thought he shoul'ved won it over Duncan. In hindsight, my bias was pretty clear, Duncan 100% deserved it. Looking deeper it is clear that the only reason Kidd got that many votes was due to the Nets Conference rank and a perception of over-achievement (i.e. a symbolic vote). If Shaquille O'Neal, Dirk Nowitzki, Kevin Garnett, played in the east it wouldn't have been a contest.

Kenyon Martin was a 2nd year player. Great defender, but not much of a scorer, relying mostly on Kidd to get him his easy scores. He was 6th on the team in defensive rebounding, and 5th in offensive rebounding, leaving A LOT to be desired in that regard (his reb rate was identical to Richard Jefferson's).

KVH: 6.2 ORB%, 21.6 DRB%
K-Mart: 5.0 ORB%, 12.4 DRB%
RJ: 4.9 ORB%, 12.2 DRB%

He made his lone All-Star team in 2004 (career high 18.7 PER), and was better in subsequent years.
So yeah, overrated in the context of his second pro season of 2002.

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MacCulloch could play. What he couldn't do was stay healthy - a nerve disease effectively ended his career prematurely the following season. His OVR rating is BY FAR the most egregious error (yet one that nobody has bothered to mention yet, instead hyping up K-Mart/Kittles ad nausea). His Offensive Rebounding was a major component on a team that shot poorly and didn't even have a go-to scorer. He wasn't a bumbling big either - his high FG% and low TO rate were a direct result of his great hands and soft touch. Did we yet mention he was a starter on the league's top defensive team?


----

The strength of this Nets team was the quality/depth of their bench. Of course you can't get that sense out of a 2K game that is missing half the team. They lost KVH and MacCulloch the following year (traded for Mutombo, who got hurt) and still made the Finals.

[jk31]

Re: NBA 2K18 Roster Update Details (11-15)

Oh I am so happy you made your little report on Lakers. Thank you.

First of all - Randle is underrated. Heavily. Lonzo is not underrated. 77 is where he should be. Nance's, Ingram's defense should be upgraded.

Ingram has average ballhandling for SF position. He can pass the rock and is good defender. DEFINITELY not overrated.

Shooting is only one part of being an NBA player and Lonzo is at least average in every other category so him being 77 is justified.

Would like to know how would you rate his other skills from A to F(y'know, passing, rebounding, on ball defense, off ball defense)

Same goes for Randle.

Clarkson is underrated but few years of ball-hogging and god-awful defense is just tough to ignore so maybe...ye I'd give you a nod for underrated.

So you are saying someone who is averave/little bit better than average in Most categories and pretty Bad in another one should be Rated 77? 77 is a Solid starters rating for Me, Not an average one.