NBA 2K19 Playbook Changes Are a Significant Test Case for Simulation Basketball

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: NBA 2K19 Playbook Changes Are a Significant Test Case for Simulation Basketball

Shall we stick to the plays the teams run irl this year?
Having too many good to have plays really confuses me when I try to relate them to the team.

I just want to add on that running the plays the teams run irl gives me a sense of realism and some sort of association to the team. And it also motivated me watching a complete nba game (I'm not into nba score betting so yeah, pure sports enjoyment) without dozing off halfway through. Frankly, I care less about the other game modes. I also hope we are not turning this thread into sort of 'money play thread' as I believe there are tons in youtube.

And lets add some short video clips to enhance the learning experience of the depth of the plays.

I'll start off with this, one of the Lemarcus post plays left out from the earlier 2K playbook update but still ran infrequently irl this year.

'94 PUNCH WHEEL (post up low)

https://youtu.be/-LMP4oZ2hRI

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Definitely not a money play thread. Good idea of posting a video with the action and the 2k play name! Make sure to post that in the roster forum playbook thread too so we can keep track of them there and they don’t get lost... good stuff!

[ataman5]

Re: NBA 2K19 Playbook Changes Are a Significant Test Case for Simulation Basketball

I loved this thread. That's for sure. Thanks for all who contributed starting with Dirk, Vann and all.

From everything that i read above, yes there are issues on myleague/gm/career longevity. I think that coaches and players have to have a sort of playbook mechanic; an ai to really colloborate a some kind of a data on their own to create better playbook on their own and assign to the personel they have as myleague/gm/career and every other mode progress. Well yea i know this is crazy and as big as it can be like a new game a Football Manager ai adaptation, coach, personnel and team plans etc. It's hard i know.

On the other hand though "plays" are essentially one of the oldest tech 2k has created before freelance and before series so i believe the nba 2k future holds more than what we got as of now more than this traditional and fairly old implementation this very standart play call or playbook as a tech so i believe there should/would be some core changes the way of all things are collaborated and assigned to personnel. So i believe we'll have a wider horizon as the 2k series progressed on these playbooks.(That paragraph is future oriented thinking.)

I'm talking very unorganized here, sorry. As far as how many plays in a playbook a team must have; i also think that the less is the better. Because other than plays we have Freelance, Series in our service whenever we like and also AI has that,too. (Though i play with 40+ plays in my playbook yet i know a lot of others who only use 15 to 25) So it makes a huge variety with plays and all that and very robust choices we can make, we're spoiled here in a way but they are very cluttered and unorganized(Just like my post here.). And also yes we can talk about how the series is implemented which seems not really controllable within a series you can't control plays; yet i think we'll see it improved as the years go. Freelance came up big, ended up not so big but freelance has made its own place as it should on the court after all trial; so we'll see how series will develop as ai improves and tech will offer some more control i'm sure.

If in the future we keep having plays/series/freelance all together what is crucial is a better gameplan scheme we will have to be offered; It's been years for freelance yet we can't assign in our gameplans in MyLeague/GM Offline/Online etc. so it should be designed first in gameplans from league menus. Also it should be organized in a way that we can reach them in game or in menus with a better organization and flow to each other. For now Freelances are in one place, series on another and plays on another, i feel cluttered, it should be better organized and presented to gamers. For now it's like they are hidden and spread around gems that we should find out, you know not for me but most.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: NBA 2K19 Playbook Changes Are a Significant Test Case for Simulation Basketball

I loved this thread. That's for sure. Thanks for all who contributed starting with Dirk, Vann and all.

From everything that i read above, yes there are issues on myleague/gm/career longevity. I think that coaches and players have to have a sort of playbook mechanic; an ai to really colloborate a some kind of a data on their own to create better playbook on their own and assign to the personel they have as myleague/gm/career and every other mode progress. Well yea i know this is crazy and as big as it can be like a new game a Football Manager ai adaptation, coach, personnel and team plans etc. It's hard i know.

On the other hand though "plays" are essentially one of the oldest tech 2k has created before freelance and before series so i believe the nba 2k future holds more than what we got as of now more than this traditional and fairly old implementation this very standart play call or playbook as a tech so i believe there should/would be some core changes the way of all things are collaborated and assigned to personnel. So i believe we'll have a wider horizon as the 2k series progressed on these playbooks.(That paragraph is future oriented thinking.)

I'm talking very unorganized here, sorry. As far as how many plays in a playbook a team must have; i also think that the less is the better. Because other than plays we have Freelance, Series in our service whenever we like and also AI has that,too. (Though i play with 40+ plays in my playbook yet i know a lot of others who only use 15 to 25) So it makes a huge variety with plays and all that and very robust choices we can make, we're spoiled here in a way but they are very cluttered and unorganized(Just like my post here.). And also yes we can talk about how the series is implemented which seems not really controllable within a series you can't control plays; yet i think we'll see it improved as the years go. Freelance came up big, ended up not so big but we'll see how series will develop as ai improves and tech will offer some more control i'm sure.

If in the future we keep having plays/series/freelance all together what is crucial is a better gameplan scheme we will have to be offered; It's been years for freelance yet we can't assign in our gameplans in MyLeague/GM Offline/Online etc. so it should be designed first in gameplans from league menus. Also it should organized in a way that we can reach them in game or in menus with a better organization. For now Freelances are in one place, series on another and plays on another, i feel cluttered, it should be better organized and presented to gamers. For now it's like they are hidden and spread around gems that we should find out, you know not for me but most.

I think there is a disconnect as far as who playbooks are created for. Yes, we all want real plays, teams to play as they do, but we have to factor in all modes. I don’t play fantasy my leagues, but I still edit playbooks for the guys who do so they can use them the way they want. That doesn’t mean you can’t have teams play as themselves. That’s what play types is for.

Also, the whole reason why I think playbooks are used for is to yes mimic how your team plays irl if you so choose, but more importantly is how the CPU uses the plays. That’s whats great about czar adding series within plays. When playing cpu if you have playbook with 5 elbow pass plays for cpu with all different actions after the elbow pass it keeps you on your toes as a user. Almost like playing a human. It’s manipulating the AI while providing us with real actions. I’ve wanted the madden star system for years but realize no way that’s happening anytime soon! Lol! The reason I want it is to control how often the CPU calls 1 play over another. It’s an art and chore to get the CPU to play like a human and like their real team. It starts with testing and when doing playbooks thinking about the masses and thinking as a coach having counters in the playbooks so you don’t know what’s coming. If I had 20 plays per team and you are playing the game all year long believe me you will see an action and know what’s coming before it happens. I’ve had 50 plays and have had that problem when playing some teams over and over all year. It’s why testing and making sure plays work and don’t break is crucial as well as adding different looks out of same set within the playbook is huge as well. Like I said it’s an art. But there are a million ways to go about creating a playbook too.

Anyways, going back to your point that I’d also agree with as far as clutter and/or being unorganized as well as how we don’t have control over things. It would be great to have the ability to switch freelance and series within rosters. I also think it would be great to have a slider (credit to ffaacc03) to set teams apart In differentiating how much they run this or that. Here is an example below...

Run freelance - 20
Run series - 25
Run Set Plays - 55

Setting that per team to control what we are getting per team. I don’t 1 of any of those areas shoved down my throat. For example when I 1st played the cpu, because of the glitch with cpu not running any plays from within their playbooks unless using the workaround I saw the same series all game long and it got old. Having a slider for this would be great. The other reason allowing us the ability to edit a teams freelance and series in roster is coaches get fired through the year, players traded, teams and coaches add things as the year go’s on or try new things. We shouldn’t have to wait til the next 2k to have something fixed that would take 2 seconds for us to do ourselves.

I also think having the ability to switch the freelances and series easily during timeouts (can we now?) is good. Add to the list adding Help defense slider in the roster is also needed... the CPU plays a completely different game when help defense set above 50. Let us change that in rosters. now I’m rambling! Lol I’m a fan of plays with branches to just like the series. These are huge especially when assigning for the CPU. Again, everything I talk about here and other places is all about controlling the AI of cpu teams. Manipulating the CPU. This is why testing plays is monsterous for immersion! Finding all the best executed actions that the CPU can execute at a high level every time means you get a better game. This makes playing the cpu like playing a human. When these things are overlooked you get weird things that happen or take you out of immersion. We talk about them because they are preventable and the offline gamers who use custom rosters with playbooks and tendencies edited and tested get it. We have tested it and seen the differences these things make. We are trying to just assure that everyone gets to experience that including ourselves in the game we get OUT OF THE BOX.

Lastly and back to plays briefly and to the clutter point. I totally get there is no need for 50 plays in a playbook. I’m in the minority in wanting 50 and wanting as real of playbooks as we can get. But Like you said Ataman a lot use 15 or less and I’d say 50% of 2k players never even call a play besides a quick play or best play. Plus when you have 50 the playbook does get cluttered especially to the casual player. I don’t need 50 I can fill in what they don’t. No big deal to me. As long as we get real actions in the game and the plays added work as intended and are not broken I’m happy.

I’m excited for the future and direction Czar is taking us with the series and real teams plays. It’s definitely a step in the right direction! But giving us some control would really be helpful moving forward with freelances, series, and plays.

[DatIsraeliGuy]

Re: NBA 2K19 Playbook Changes Are a Significant Test Case for Simulation Basketball

WOW, they made the playbooks match real life, and only 3 months after release? Amazing, I applaud the lazy bastards for doing something so late into the release of a full priced game when the community already fixed most of it on its own.

Seriously, what are these articles for? Praise 2k for doing something that should be in the game anyways? Until they fix their laughable tendencies and legacy issues they cannot be regarded as “simulation basketball”.

[JoFri]

Re: NBA 2K19 Playbook Changes Are a Significant Test Case for Simulation Basketball

Vann, yes u can change the freelance (and series) during yor timeout


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[alabamarob]

Re: NBA 2K19 Playbook Changes Are a Significant Test Case for Simulation Basketball

Lol! I don’t think you read through my lengthy posts. I’ll say it early so you don’t miss it. Mid range and high post plays in this scenario within a playbook is for my league players who play fantasy leagues. You have to account for that when doing playbooks. This isn’t a playbook for 1 type of player it’s for the masses and all modes. You have to think outside the box and factoring in everyone who buys the game. The mid range I posted I just listed because they ran the shooter coming off the screen from the block to the corner. I wasn’t saying use that I was just referencing we needed that action in. The play they ran a lot was actually Tre passes to elbow go’s to screen away for prince, prince rejects and just runs through the paint. Then Tre curls back and gets DHO or pitchback from Elbow guy then prince comes off the screen on block to corner for corner 3. They ran it to Huerter as well. The mid play IF you go look at it shows the end result. You can only mimic certain things if they don’t exist in game. Bring that up to czar not me. Lol I didn’t have any mid range plays listed to use. Just said put in for my league longevity. Nothing else. Plus the Hawks would never run mid range play because no one has the play type. You don’t assign it to them. So it’s like those plays aren’t there. Only for my league guys. Make sense?

2nd the actions they ran the most are not even in the game. I’d say about 8-10 plays that were in 18 or were actions I knew I needed to find don’t exist in 19. A perfect example is Fist 52 side. The Hawks run that play EXCEPT it starts from Tre passing to the 2 then the pnr comes. But that doesn’t exist in 19 with the same set up or with screen happening wing to side. I could mimic it from wing to top key but they didn’t run that. Lol! The 3 plays that are the same (similar), but different people is the DHO into pnr which they ran the most of. Seeing they ran that a ton to see it more vs CPU you add it more. I think partially you are confusing a user vs user playbook and creating a playbook for the cpu and to have the AI running plays like they do irl. Obviously as a user you have that 1 play and don’t need 3. Look at a few of Czar books there is 2 of same play (same play name) too. I can’t duplicate a play though like devs can. Only put similar one in.

The cutter plays were to get those actions as far as players getting scores of cuts. You could for sure eliminate and I posted in the post that they DIDN’T run them BUT I would add them BECAUSE they can act as a counter (elbow feed, etc) to plays they do run. They ran simple pin downs. Every pnr and handoff they ran a few times (only watched 3 games of film).

As far as post ups go, I saw a few high low feeds. They ran horns looks too. The 08 15 Fist they absolutely ran. They might not look for post feed in set plays, but they do hit it and if you don’t account for it they will never do it in game which they clearly do in game. They ran a few punch plays into a high laker cut. I watched it but hey you know your team would never do it! Lol! Like I said in previous posts if it’s in their playbook add it. Do you really think the hawks have 0 post plays in their playbook? That when you play them and vs cpu you want them to never pass to post? Not to mention AGAIN That even if they don’t run any you still HAVE to account for it for my league players.

You must think I’m just making it up for fun, I’m an idiot and havnt scouted 3 years of college basketball, or you are just missing the point of my previous posts of the reasoning behind the why do something, Or maybe you just want to argue with me. Lol

The Fist HHD they do start in horns and 1 guy pops up to set pick while the other spreads. The way Hawks ran it though was Len sprinted to opposite corner. It used to be in 18 but I couldn’t find it so the closest I could get from their pre set horns look they run was the HD’s play. Again try and get as close as we can without having their real plays in the game.

Like I said In the very last paragraph was numerous actions are not represented in the game so I had to improvise until we get them and czar gets to them and adds them in. They had about 10 things that don’t exist in game. Let Czar release his plays for hawks and you can see them. So by your account the Hawks should have 10 plays total in their playbook and if it’s anymore it’s wrong? Lol!

But here is an alternative option as well, you can always just keep the fake hawks playbook too that doesn’t replicate real life at all! Lol! I choose to try and make the best of what game gives us and replicate the best we can. If we had real hawks plays in like I described above then I’d 1000% switch them out with the look a likes!

But bottom line is the Hawks flat out suck and you can see why. You were right they don’t run much. But that’s not the norm for 28/30 teams.

I agree with that. Most of the plays that they run irl the opposite big is in the corner as opposed to the block. All of the swing plays they run are that way irl. Thus i couldnt find 1 swing play that fit. There is also a corner 3 play they run for Prince I cant find on 2k. That 15 chin. Quick 43 series 4. Elbow Series 1. Fist give 35. Fist 14 series 2. Fist 35 horns x. Give 53 horns quick. give delay. Quick point 2. Fist 25 give. Fizt 5 out 6. Fist 51 give 4 out. They run all those.

Fyi i read your entire post. I just couldnt address the off topic comments you made. Haha.

Fist 5 out. I dont remember them running a set with Len or Dedmon starting catching the ball reversal from the 4 beyond the 3 and ending with a 81 screen. When did they run this?

Fist 35 quick swing. Yep. Playart diff then how play runs. So you are correct.


08 punch must be new. Its not in mylg playbook.

Fist 52 side. When did they run this? Young rarely comes down and stands above the breK with no movement.

Fist bull pitch. Never seen them run a play with the opposite big on the box and the wing standing behind him. This is horrible spacing. We always give players their own corner.

Punch 5 horns fist 2. Hmmmmmm. May have seen this 1 time in preseason for Collins. They def didnt run this for anyone other then him and he only been back for 6 games. Cant say i have seen this 1 time this reg season.

Fist 45 give. Opposite big in wrong place.

The iso plays may have been called 2 times all year. 1 time being last play vs lakers.

Fist 81 out. Prince may have screened and popped out 1 or 2 times all year.


All those 15s except the high you are correct.

You did a good job.

[alabamarob]

Re: NBA 2K19 Playbook Changes Are a Significant Test Case for Simulation Basketball

On second take they run Fist 25 give but not Fist 5 out 6. Haha. You trying to be slick Vann. They dont have the 4 and the wing switch during th pnr. They stay static like in Fist 25.

Now after going thru your list I have changed 33 percent of my playbook. Ha. You have shown me the light.

[youALREADYknow]

Re: NBA 2K19 Playbook Changes Are a Significant Test Case for Simulation Basketball

On second take they run Fist 25 give but not Fist 5 out 6. Haha. You trying to be slick Vann. They dont have the 4 and the wing switch during th pnr. They stay static like in Fist 25.

I prefer Fist 25 Give to Fist 5Out 6 for how the play develops. The ball screen action on the wing vs the ball handler going over to top of the key is also different. The reset action is better for branching into freelance.

Both are great play designs. I might put both in playbooks for some teams to show different looks.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: NBA 2K19 Playbook Changes Are a Significant Test Case for Simulation Basketball

I'll address a few things in bold below...

I agree with that. Most of the plays that they run irl the opposite big is in the corner as opposed to the block. All of the swing plays they run are that way irl. Thus i couldnt find 1 swing play that fit. There is also a corner 3 play they run for Prince I cant find on 2k. That 15 chin. Quick 43 series 4. Elbow Series 1. Fist give 35. Fist 14 series 2. Fist 35 horns x. Give 53 horns quick. give delay. Quick point 2. Fist 25 give. Fizt 5 out 6. Fist 51 give 4 out. They run all those.

Yes, the swing plays was a problem and those were a few of the plays we had in 18 but don't in 19. For example I believe in 18 it was Fist Swing 34 that we are looking for but it's not in 19 unfortunately. Also, that 3 play you are referring too in the corner is I believe the same play I was talking about with elbow feed no? Or what I was referring to with that mid range play just to look at with him coming off the screen on the block like runner action to the corner 3. Last year a couple of the mid range plays actually resulted in a 3 not a mid range shot so it’s worth looking at them if anything for the end result. But I did the same thing and searched and searched and couldn’t find anything like it in the game unfortunately...

Fyi i read your entire post. I just couldnt address the off topic comments you made. Haha.

Skimmer LOL

Fist 5 out. I dont remember them running a set with Len or Dedmon starting catching the ball reversal from the 4 beyond the 3 and ending with a 81 screen. When did they run this?

Is that how it ended? Don't recall I might have put wrong play there? I'll look again...

Fist 35 quick swing. Yep. Playart diff then how play runs. So you are correct.


08 punch must be new. Its not in mylg playbook.

That play was in 2k18. Its simple PNR & Replace that happens to go to a high low as 2nd option but the best part of the play is alot of times you get a wide open 3 from the stretch. The high low after is what I saw numerous times. Colins was really good at getting deep and ducking in. I'll touch on this again on another post.

Fist 52 side. When did they run this? Young rarely comes down and stands above the breK with no movement.

I'll try and find video of it to link. Like I said the play isn't exact as Tre made the pass to initiate it but the end result and spread floor was what we wanted.

Fist bull pitch. Never seen them run a play with the opposite big on the box and the wing standing behind him. This is horrible spacing. We always give players their own corner.

This play was about the action not the spacing. CPU executes it well too which is extremely important with all these as well...

Punch 5 horns fist 2. Hmmmmmm. May have seen this 1 time in preseason for Collins. They def didnt run this for anyone other then him and he only been back for 6 games. Cant say i have seen this 1 time this reg season.

This is in for a few reasons. You are correct like I said earlier Collins does a great job ducking in and getting deep position. Usually that is early in transition. The Hawks run Horns looks though throughout a game. 50/50 on it being a screen or Elbow Pass to initiate. Lastly they had quite a few high lows they ran which you get from this. Along with great spacing. So, even though not 100% real play I can simulate 3 things the Hawks do do within it. Make sense? Like I said if we had better plays or real plays in the game I can switch plays like this...

Fist 45 give. Opposite big in wrong place.

This is play that is right but just don't have players in right spot. Thats greedy and being picky. LOL

The iso plays may have been called 2 times all year. 1 time being last play vs lakers.

The ISO plays need to be in because the Hawks just go man. LOL! Thats why with the ISO's I didnt put them in 14 flat, etc and all ISO's are in where they were attacking from within frame of offense. No ISO's where it's clear because I never saw that.

Fist 81 out. Prince may have screened and popped out 1 or 2 times all year.

This action was actually with Vince Carter and I saw it a good 4-5x... The Guard Post they ran to him as well. This isn't meant for Prince.

All those 15s except the high you are correct.

No, they ran the 15 high a few times. Tre attacking downhill. You could get away with just 1 though. 2 was overboard for sure.

You did a good job.

Thanks! LOL! I am curious to see your playbook now seeing that you are a stickler to what the Hawks run and players being in right spots. Not to mention seeing you only took 33% of my plays. LOL! I want to see the other 66%!
Now keep in mind I was just giving you something to start with and only watched 3 games worth of film too. I only spent afew hours on it. Your turn...
HA

I don't know if you read a different post where I talked about this, but it's all about the CPU and manipulating the AI & getting the CPU to get as close as we can to real life. A million different ways you can go about this and it's all how each person really wants to create their playbooks. How do you want the CPU to play vs you. Do you want a mixture of things that all look similar like a series with 50 full plays to keep you on your toes? Or do you want 20 plays and you see something you know whats coming? The best way to describe this is to think Elbow pass. If you only have 1 elbow pass in the Hawks playbook and only 1 action and factor in playing the game for 12 months all year long. Every time you play the Hawks it becomes stale vs the CPU because you know whats coming every time they pass it to the elbow. I want to be kept guessing thinking I know what’s coming then I get hit with something else. That’s the things that really keep you immersed in a game. If you put 4-5 plays out of Horns or with a Elbow Entry then that is when you start to feel like you are on your toes & it becomes like playing another human. This is really what adding series was all about. Same thing go's for getting plays in teams playbook that are as close to the real plays we can UNTIL we can get the real ones in there...

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: NBA 2K19 Playbook Changes Are a Significant Test Case for Simulation Basketball

On second take they run Fist 25 give but not Fist 5 out 6. Haha. You trying to be slick Vann. They dont have the 4 and the wing switch during th pnr. They stay static like in Fist 25.

Now after going thru your list I have changed 33 percent of my playbook. Ha. You have shown me the light.

33%?

Thats it I need to see your book now! LOL! Like I said, you have to be creative until we get the real plays. It's all we can do. If it doesn't exist in game then what? Just don't add it or improvise? Again, this is why Czar doing this is HUGE and AWESOME! If you go look at the 7 teams he did there are some diamonds and real actions in there! It's one reason I am not even going to bother doing playbooks until AFTER he releases all 30 teams. Just like this scenario it's tough to replicate things. With a team like Hawks you really have to get creative though because they didnt even run a simple double stagger. I have never seen something so vanilla. Lloyd is only there for the rebuild and won't last I promise you! LOL

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: NBA 2K19 Playbook Changes Are a Significant Test Case for Simulation Basketball

I prefer Fist 25 Give to Fist 5Out 6 for how the play develops. The ball screen action on the wing vs the ball handler going over to top of the key is also different. The reset action is better for branching into freelance.

Both are great play designs. I might put both in playbooks for some teams to show different looks.

YAK, hopefully you chime in here on the importance of testing plays and the impact plays have to CPU AI execution to create sim experience. It can’t just be me and I know we think alike on this. They need to hear it. You & I hang out on roster forums where most get it and understand it there but main forum there are a lot of people who don’t. Might be good to state your stance as you know this game inside and out and do great work and you are very thorough in testing. Great advocate and voice in this area. Hopefully you can chime in...

[alabamarob]

Re: NBA 2K19 Playbook Changes Are a Significant Test Case for Simulation Basketball

33%?

Thats it I need to see your book now! LOL! Like I said, you have to be creative until we get the real plays. It's all we can do. If it doesn't exist in game then what? Just don't add it or improvise? Again, this is why Czar doing this is HUGE and AWESOME! If you go look at the 7 teams he did there are some diamonds and real actions in there! It's one reason I am not even going to bother doing playbooks until AFTER he releases all 30 teams. Just like this scenario it's tough to replicate things. With a team like Hawks you really have to get creative though because they didnt even run a simple double stagger. I have never seen something so vanilla. Lloyd is only there for the rebuild and won't last I promise you! LOL

I think Pierce is legit. Next year he will start shining. Wordplay is 20 plays with 30 options, as opposed to 30 plays. Ha

[harryl]

Re: NBA 2K19 Playbook Changes Are a Significant Test Case for Simulation Basketball

I’ll list the plays to keep per team at some point. Just organizing as I go. Star rating them and organizing actions.

Very much looking forward to this.

I'm a weirdo who only plays MyTeam but who likes to dig deep into Playbooks and mostly run Plays/Freelances/Series.

Was exploring the new stuff in the Knicks Playbook last night and really dug at least the Fist 21 Delay (B) play. The play tuning seems to have benefitted handoffs greatly, in general. I'm looking forward to going through the other Fist 21 Delay series plays in the Playbook and then going through the Delay Series and/or Freelance.

[vannwolfhawk]

Re: NBA 2K19 Playbook Changes Are a Significant Test Case for Simulation Basketball

Very much looking forward to this.

I'm a weirdo who only plays MyTeam but who likes to dig deep into Playbooks and mostly run Plays/Freelances/Series.

Was exploring the new stuff in the Knicks Playbook last night and really dug at least the Fist 21 Delay (B) play. The play tuning seems to have benefitted handoffs greatly, in general. I'm looking forward to going through the other Fist 21 Delay series plays in the Playbook and then going through the Delay Series and/or Freelance.

Keep in mind I won’t even use plays that both the user and cpu can’t execute. A user can execute most all plays in the game with no issues. The cpu is a different story though.

Czar put out a video today and made some fixes so if he’s still fixing things no point for me to put list yet. For example I went back through all of Raptors plays again and tested. I’d use 18 of the 37 now. I Had 9 before. He fixed all the Raptor (name of play) plays. I missed dho’s On my 1st go around too.

I assumed he’d have had them tested and working pre putting them into the game 1st and I didn’t realize he is/was going to fix them after putting them in the game. It Hasn’t been that way the last few years or ever. Lol

[harryl]

Re: NBA 2K19 Playbook Changes Are a Significant Test Case for Simulation Basketball

Keep in mind I won’t even use plays that both the user and cpu can’t execute. A user can execute most all plays in the game with no issues. The cpu is a different story though.

Thanks for the clarification. I would imagine that your list of plays that CPU can run well "on its own," would still be meaningful to me (and others) because these would be plays for which the tuning of CPU off-ball action is optimized. I.e. especially effective off-ball screening for shooters.

But that raises the question: what differentiates between a human player's ability to execute a play, and the the CPU's ability?

Are you referring to plays in which, say, there is action by the ballhandler that is required to be "good," and if, say, a ballhandler does not use a screen properly, the play doesn't get executed well?

If a play gets initiated by a simple pass, for example, CPU should be able to "execute the play" as well as a human player, no?

I'll check out what Da Czar uploaded most recently.

I'm trying to embark on the headache of "charting" plays in verbal, written form. So that I have notes on the various branches. I try to not just describe the actions for myself, for reference, but also call out "features" of plays that are novel, such as the "final" pass to an intended target shooter coming from a big, instead of a PG/guard/wing. So that I can take advantage of stuff like, say, running Jokic or Sabonis and wanting to put him in position to make frequent user of HoF Dimer.

Or note which plays/branches create 3pt looks for players based simply on their position and who the playcaller/target is, so that I can have "3pt plays" for players who don't have the 3pt Play Type. (In MyTeam, we cannot customize a player's play selection/type.)

The headache is especially big with these revised playbooks, because I'll need to list out all the play names first. For what came default in the game, I have an Excel and PDF file from another obsessive maniac who posted his transription work on the Reddit sub (this year and also 2K18).