Contested Layups

[WarMMA]

So in light of the recent thread on not being able to make contested jumpshots at a realistic rate against the AI, it got me thinking about layups. Now first i'll say this...I love the change 2k made with layups this yr as you can get open layups by just choosing the right kind of layup in certain situations. However, just like with jumpshots, I do feel 2k handled the defensive strength sliders wrong with layups. I feel irl contesting a layup at its release, is less effective than contesting a layup when the player is taking off. If your contesting a layup at its release, imo its either your blocking the ball, drawing contact (possible foul) or praying he misses. For example, in the gif below Westbrook drives in with a euro layup. Notice the late contest by Danny Green (the last guy to contest) at the release of Russ layup has little to no effect. The ball is already on its way to the rim...





Now obviously the position of the defender can change things, but case in point, I feel contest strength should be different at different points of a layup. An early contest at takeoff, should be more effective than a late contest at its release imo. I dont think it should be the way 2k has it at default, with layup contest strengths all the same at takeoff and release. Now let me say i'm no bball player or have never played ball at a high lvl, so I may be totally wrong in thinking this way. So any guys out there that play/played ball at a high lvl care to chime in? And what do the rest of you guys out there think? How do you feel about layup contest strength being the same across the board?

[mfdoom911e]

Re: Contested Layups

So in light of the recent thread on not being able to make contested jumpshots at a realistic rate against the AI, it got me thinking about layups. Now first i'll say this...I love the change 2k made with layups this yr as you can get open layups by just choosing the right kind of layup in certain situations. However, just like with jumpshots, I do feel 2k handled the defensive strength sliders wrong with layups. I feel irl contesting a layup at its release, is less effective than contesting a layup when the player is taking off. If your contesting a layup at its release, imo its either your blocking the ball, drawing contact (possible foul) or praying he misses. For example, in the gif below Westbrook drives in with a euro layup. Notice the late contest by Danny Green (the last guy to contest) at the release of Russ layup has little to no effect. The ball is already on its way to the rim...





Now obviously the position of the defender can change things, but case in point, I feel contest strength should be different at different points of a layup. An early contest at takeoff, should be more effective than a late contest at its release imo. I dont think it should be the way 2k has it at default, with layup contest strengths all the same at takeoff and release. Now let me say i'm no bball player or have never played ball at a high lvl, so I may be totally wrong in thinking this way. So any guys out there that play/played ball at a high lvl care to chime in? And what do the rest of you guys out there think? How do you feel about layup contest strength being the same across the board?

May i ask what is you really trying to achieve on this thread?? coz the one with "cant hit a jump shot" is obviously false. be specific put a video clip of the actual game that you having a problem coz usually this 2k game have different result to different people. and personally me there is nothing wrong in this game especially offline. thanks.

[WarMMA]

Re: Contested Layups

May i ask what is you really trying to achieve on this thread?? coz the one with "cant hit a jump shot" is obviously false. be specific put a video clip of the actual game that you having a problem coz usually this 2k game have different result to different people. and personally me there is nothing wrong in this game especially offline. thanks.

Not really trying to achieve anything per se, but just trying to see how others out there feel about the layup contest strengths. I feel like contest on them should be more/less effective depending on what point of the layup a defender contest at...feel it's more realistic that way. Just curious to see how others feel about it, as 2k's default sliders have contest strengths the same across the board.

[BeerPoisoning]

Re: Contested Layups

Either the defender is there to contest, or they’re not. There isn’t really a gray-area with layups. If you have an open layup and a defender comes in late for a chase down down block, that has nothing to do with offensive probability and everything to do with defensive probability. It’d be unfair for 2K to toggle the layup success rate if the offensive player isn’t contested during their shot.

That differs from jump shots because a shooter can see and be rattled by a late arriving defender. When you perform a layup, you are directly at the basket with your eyes on the rim. You aren’t going to see someone flying in from another direction.


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[WarMMA]

Re: Contested Layups

Either the defender is there to contest, or they’re not. There isn’t really a gray-area with layups. If you have an open layup and a defender comes in late for a chase down down block, that has nothing to do with offensive probability and everything to do with defensive probability. It’d be unfair for 2K to toggle the layup success rate if the offensive player isn’t contested during their shot.

That differs from jump shots because a shooter can see and be rattled by a late arriving defender. When you perform a layup, you are directly at the basket with your eyes on the rim. You aren’t going to see someone flying in from another direction.


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Thanks for the input man. I get what you're saying. Either the defender is there to contest or not yes, but a defender can arrive late (at layups release) or early(at layups gather) with that contest. As seen in the gif I posted, Green arrived late at the release of Westbrooks layup. So what i'm talking about is a defender being able to arrive late like in that gif and still have the same defensive impact on it, cuz of 2k's layup defense strength settings. If a guy is laying up and a defender is just contesting as he's releasing, I feel the effect is not the same as it would have been at the layups takeoff. As you said, they are already at the basket with their eyes on the rim. At that point, its either the defender blocks it, draws contact or the layup goes in/misses. So I feel like a contest at the point of a layups release should be a little less effective and not the same as contesting when the player is taking off/gathering. Just my opinion.

[BeerPoisoning]

Re: Contested Layups

Although Danny Green wasn’t defending Westbrook on the drive, he’s still there defending the layup. Heck, Westbrook was practically making contact with him before he jumped off the ground for the attempt. So, I’m not sure what you’re getting at in the GIF image.

If someone actually arrives late to contest the layup, the physical contact is going to result in a foul nearly every time because it’d be colliding bodies.


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[keshunleon]

Re: Contested Layups

The problem is 2K has animation layups and IRL players maneuver around defenders.

A lot of the animations are canned so the outcome is predicated on the animation.

2K already nerfed some layups to miss even if the defender isn't in a great defensive position to contest the shot.

Just increase layups and contested shots contest.

[mfdoom911e]

Re: Contested Layups

Although Danny Green wasn’t defending Westbrook on the drive, he’s still there defending the layup. Heck, Westbrook was practically making contact with him before he jumped off the ground for the attempt. So, I’m not sure what you’re getting at in the GIF image.

If someone actually arrives late to contest the layup, the physical contact is going to result in a foul nearly every time because it’d be colliding bodies.


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^^^ this is the same thing i wondering one..thats why i ask what is the main goal of the thread coz its a bit confusing for me. sorry.

[youALREADYknow]

Re: Contested Layups

My sliders usually have a wide gap between Gather and Release on Layups. The higher impact is at Gather by forcing the scorer to change their release angles.

Your logic also makes sense that if you are challenging layups at release then those are usually going to result in blocks or fouls. If you’re able to get enough block/foul calls out of this game engine on layups at the rim, then a case could be made to lower Release Contest Strength closer to zero since there wouldn’t be a need to impact shot success as much. Just be careful as those sliders also determine the aggressiveness of defenders in attempting to defend shots at the basket (as Jump Shot does on the perimeter).

[jk31]

Re: Contested Layups

In 2k19,if There is a Good defender watching your back from 3 Meters away, you will miss the layup.

[BeerPoisoning]

Re: Contested Layups

In 2k19,if There is a Good defender watching your back from 3 Meters away, you will miss the layup.

Hm. Never had someone behind me effect a jumper or layup unless they were physically touching me.


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[jk31]

Re: Contested Layups

Hm. Never had someone behind me effect a jumper or layup unless they were physically touching me.


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What Mode and difficulty are you playing? I sometimes fake out my defender with LaMarcus Aldridge in the Post, dribble by him and then, when I go up for the 1:0 layup, He will miss because the defender, He just bought in the air, is watching from behind. Applies to players like rudy Gobert, deandre Jordan or dwight howard.

[youALREADYknow]

Re: Contested Layups

What Mode and difficulty are you playing? I sometimes fake out my defender with LaMarcus Aldridge in the Post, dribble by him and then, when I go up for the 1:0 layup, He will miss because the defender, He just bought in the air, is watching from behind. Applies to players like rudy Gobert, deandre Jordan or dwight howard.

That’s the Rim Protector Badge. It’s crazy overpowered on Gold/HoF.

[olajuwon34]

Re: Contested Layups

and personally me there is nothing wrong in this game especially offline.

Are you joking?

[WarMMA]

Re: Contested Layups

^^^ this is the same thing i wondering one..thats why i ask what is the main goal of the thread coz its a bit confusing for me. sorry.

My point is that in this game, a defender can arrive late like Green did in that GIF and still have a significant defensive impact on your layup release cuz of the layup defense strength being the same at release, as it is at takeoff. I've even had times where i'm going for wide open layups and a defender jumps late at the release of my layup just like Green did and doesn't make contact with me, but still makes it miss. I think that's bs.