2k Mechanics Open Discussion Thread

[MrWrestling3]

Lately I've noticed a lot of (mostly) beneficial back and forth in other threads about the various mechanics in 2K.

Rather than bog down other threads with posts that are kind of off topic, let's discuss 2K's mechanics here instead. I'll start it off...

[MrWrestling3]

Re: 2k Mechanics Open Discussion Thread

On green releases: Personally I believe in the concept of the excellent release as I've experienced it in several sports.There are times in basketball where the ball felt great coming out of my hands for shot, there are times in baseball where everything came together and I could "feel" it was a good hit just from the way the ball jumped off the bat, even in martial arts there are times when everything came together and I've launched off exceptionally good strikes on the pads.

What I don't believe in is the concept of the guaranteed success; some of those good shots rimmed out, some good swings went foul anyway, some good strikes ended up being jammed or overextended because the spacing was a shade off.Were they generally more successful than usual efforts? Yeah. they sure weren't 100% guaranteed though.

On badges: I think they've gotten out of control,plain and simple.IMO the current situation allows for some farcical situation due to too many mechanics interacting; the attributes themselves should be the limiter, not what badges a person has.As an example, if a guy is a good rebounder then he gets a high attribute, which should let him have all those hustle rebounder type animations; if he is not a good rebounder the attribute is lower, to prevent poor rebounder from attaining Rodman like numbers.

[isdatyt]

Re: 2k Mechanics Open Discussion Thread

Re: Green releases. Basketball is mathematical by nature, as it is a physics based game. Just because you've "felt" good, doesn't mean it was perfect. You don't miss "perfect" shots. Perfect by definition, cannot fail. The rim and ball don't change in real life, all misses are due to shooter mechanics. It's why they can build robots that can shoot 100%. If you actually shoot the perfect shot, mathematically, it will go in every time. It's why the best shooters ever have such perfect looking jump shots that can be consistently replicated. It's the reason why Steph Curry knows when he can turn around and look at the bench before a shot even starts it's downward trajectory. That's a real life green release. I believe people just hate the game-y idea of it, but it's absolutely based in reality. Players who take the time to nail releases of great shooters should be rewarded.

I also love badges. They separate players who may be similarly skilled, but can apply those skills differently. Let's say Klay and Steph both have 99 off dribble 3 ratings. The ability to dribble down the court and pop an open fastbreak 3 with either one would be based on that rating. I trust both to consistently nail that shot. However that same 3, shot off the pick and roll, or a fading three off a behind the back dribble would also technically be based off that rating. We both know Steph>Klay in those scenarios. Which is why Steph has P&R maestro, and a higher difficult shots badge than Klay. Same with rebounding. Some guys get 10 boards a game because they're big and have decent fundamentals, but a guy like Westbrook or Montrezl Harrell is getting those rebounds in a completely different manner. Badging can account for that.

Now onto negatives just in case I seem like a 2K apologist lol. One mechanic I hope they address is how regimented the CPU is. I understand tendencies and gameplan, but certain things make them way to easy to guard. Inbound plays that are guaranteed steals if you've played the game more than twice because they seem to be hard-coded to pass it to the same guy 98% of the time regardless of the defense. Forcing a gameplan that's not working. I remember playing domination early this year and D'Angelo Russell tried to exploit my Kyrie in the post. It worked twice, maybe, but after I adjusted to stop it, there wasn't an adjustment. Even once he got the snowflake icon, he kept trying until he was subbed out.

I'd also like them to do a better job of preventing cheesy strategies from being as effective as real basketball. If it wouldn't be consistently successful IRL, make it so in the game. If you tried to full court press an NBA team for an extended period of time, or early in the game, they'd blow you off the floor. Continuously reaching or poorly timed blocks should take the defender out of the play. I hate getting blocked after I get a guy up in the air with a fake, but he's able to jump right back up, especially bigs that aren't athletic. I've already seen signs in leaked gameplay that bigs are significantly slower, so I hope that takes care of that.

Uninterruptible dunk animations need to be significantly toned down. If I want to jump for a block, let me. I don't care if it sends him to the line. Hell, add a timing penalty that'll give me a flagrant if I try and get it wrong. Which ties into my last point.

I don't know if it's input lag, a glitch, or what, but pressing a button and not having your player perform the action that button is tied to, it's completely infuriating. If i double tap the shot button to go for a spin gather, that's what I want. Not some weird contextual floater, or some janky jumpshot animation. I'd rather fail at something I tried than succeed at something I didn't. Let me be in full control. If I go for it at the wrong time and get punished, I'm completely okay with that, but don't bail me out, or throw off my timing because my player just decided he knows what's best. If I wanted to see that, I'd let the CPU play for me.

[infemous]

Re: 2k Mechanics Open Discussion Thread

Uninterruptible dunk animations need to be significantly toned down. If I want to jump for a block, let me. I don't care if it sends him to the line. Hell, add a timing penalty that'll give me a flagrant if I try and get it wrong. Which ties into my last point.

I don't know if it's input lag, a glitch, or what, but pressing a button and not having your player perform the action that button is tied to, it's completely infuriating. If i double tap the shot button to go for a spin gather, that's what I want. Not some weird contextual floater, or some janky jumpshot animation. I'd rather fail at something I tried than succeed at something I didn't. Let me be in full control. If I go for it at the wrong time and get punished, I'm completely okay with that, but don't bail me out, or throw off my timing because my player just decided he knows what's best. If I wanted to see that, I'd let the CPU play for me.

yo forreal this is exactly my complaint with the game..

and tbh the only real major one.

if 2k can find a way to balance the game with realistic outcomes to bad or good input, and stop just giving me awful animations for things that don't work, then the game would be almost perfect for me.

[Peaceful dash 88]

Re: 2k Mechanics Open Discussion Thread

The lack of a real physics type system governing all aspects of gameplay is holding this game back in my opinion.

Being able to run/sprint at full speed directly into anyone at anytime (onball/offball) without no fear of some type of collision penalty that can result in a charging/blocking foul being called is killing the ability to imply any real basketball strategy when playing 2k.

My nephew and I plays online almost ever day and I lose to him almost every day due one form of cheese
or another. The form of cheese he usually win with is turbo spamming into defenders till he's close enough to the rim,initiating the mostly ( might loss the ball if your lucky) uninterruptible spin layup animation that anyone (form Kyrie to Will Perdue Lol) could do with a 90+% chance of a make (in traffic even) or some sort of pick and roll cheese where the rolling man animation would forcefully slide the defender out if position if the defender is in the way of his uninterruptible rolling to the rim animation path making it easy to get under the rim for easy buckets when the defender is way out of position to stop it

I'm ok with losing if

1) I'm new to the game and I suck because I don't know all of the games controls yet

2) I know all the games controls but, he picked the more superior team and used better basketball strategies (out coached me) than I have or we both had a strategy that was sufficient enough for a win but, my lack of talent cost me the game

3) we both have equally matched up teams but, my teams lack of execution (unforced turnovers missing makeable shots) cost me the game

[MrWrestling3]

Re: 2k Mechanics Open Discussion Thread

On green releases: While it is possible under highly controlled test conditions such as with the robot, that sort of consistent 100% perfect repetition by a human being under game conditions is not feasible; there are too many variables involved.

What you see with Curry is not some of 100% guarantee of a make, rather it is a little bit of a gamble by showboating due to extreme confidence in one's shot.While it looks cool on the highlight reels there is still always the chance,however slight, that this happens:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7WUHB_WYllU

Now I'm not against good shooters having a very good chance when wide open with a green release....99 or even 99.9%, I think there should always be at least the tiniest chance things just don't go your way.To me it adds to the excitement.

On badges: While I agree with your example of Curry and Klay, I do not think that Curry should have a 20 or 30 percent boost to that shot like 2K would award with a badge.The strength of most boosts combined with stacking boosts takes things a bit too far IMO.For now, I would rather see Curry with a 99 off dribble 3 rating while Klay gets a 97 or 98 than badges that are out of control.

On to the negatives....I pretty much agree with everything you said.I don't think you should ever be automatically forced to fail in a way that gives the other player advantage or into an uncounterable animation.

[MrWrestling3]

Re: 2k Mechanics Open Discussion Thread

The lack of a real physics type system governing all aspects of gameplay is holding this game back in my opinion.

Being able to run/sprint at full speed directly into anyone at anytime (onball/offball) without no fear of some type of collision penalty that can result in a charging/blocking foul being called is killing the ability to imply any real basketball strategy when playing 2k.

My nephew and I plays online almost ever day and I lose to him almost every day due one form of cheese
or another. The form of cheese he usually win with is turbo spamming into defenders till he's close enough to the rim,initiating the mostly ( might loss the ball if your lucky) uninterruptible spin layup animation that anyone (form Kyrie to Will Perdue Lol) could do with a 90+% chance of a make (in traffic even) or some sort of pick and roll cheese where the rolling man animation would forcefully slide the defender out if position if the defender is in the way of his uninterruptible rolling to the rim animation path making it easy to get under the rim for easy buckets when the defender is way out of position to stop it

I'm ok with losing if

1) I'm new to the game and I suck because I don't know all of the games controls yet

2) I know all the games controls but, he picked the more superior team and used better basketball strategies (out coached me) than I have or we both had a strategy that was sufficient enough for a win but, my lack of talent cost me the game

3) we both have equally matched up teams but, my teams lack of execution (unforced turnovers missing makeable shots) cost me the game

You've run into the same thing I take issue with.I don't mind losing because I failed at basketball; I do mind losing because the video gaming element is so strong as to basically make actual basketball strategies irrelevant as compared to finding ways to exploit things in the game.I think there needs to be a better balance between the two.

[Kushmir]

Re: 2k Mechanics Open Discussion Thread

The lack of a real physics type system governing all aspects of gameplay is holding this game back in my opinion.

Being able to run/sprint at full speed directly into anyone at anytime (onball/offball) without no fear of some type of collision penalty that can result in a charging/blocking foul being called is killing the ability to imply any real basketball strategy when playing 2k.

THIIIIIIIS.

[Kushmir]

Re: 2k Mechanics Open Discussion Thread

Agree with most of everything posted here....but in the interest of adding something new:

NEUTRAL OUTCOMES. NEUTRAL OUTCOMES. NEUTRAL OUTCOMES.

Instances where users can trigger a risky strategy and not succeed, but see no downside from FAILURE are crippling to gameplay. They totally negate the Risk/Reward aspect of H2H and imbalance the game horribly. Worse? It encourages SPAM because it rewards accuracy by volume. Even the rookie player understands why you should maximize attempts when there's little to no reward for failure.

Its the reason steal spam was a thing in 2K19 and why spam can be used to defend the rim--see here as Mirotic misses a block horribly but since there's little chance of a foul being called it works to his advantage by giving Giannis time to size up a block.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/2e3iMD_IQTY" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Or here when KD flat-out misses a steal but its still in position to stop a drive to the basket:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/e2GeXMCEZBE" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

No good can come from Neutral Outcomes.

[DatGuy12x2]

Re: 2k Mechanics Open Discussion Thread

Now onto negatives just in case I seem like a 2K apologist lol. One mechanic I hope they address is how regimented the CPU is. I understand tendencies and gameplan, but certain things make them way to easy to guard. Inbound plays that are guaranteed steals if you've played the game more than twice because they seem to be hard-coded to pass it to the same guy 98% of the time regardless of the defense. Forcing a gameplan that's not working. I remember playing domination early this year and D'Angelo Russell tried to exploit my Kyrie in the post. It worked twice, maybe, but after I adjusted to stop it, there wasn't an adjustment. Even once he got the snowflake icon, he kept trying until he was subbed out.

I'd also like them to do a better job of preventing cheesy strategies from being as effective as real basketball. If it wouldn't be consistently successful IRL, make it so in the game. If you tried to full court press an NBA team for an extended period of time, or early in the game, they'd blow you off the floor. Continuously reaching or poorly timed blocks should take the defender out of the play. I hate getting blocked after I get a guy up in the air with a fake, but he's able to jump right back up, especially bigs that aren't athletic. I've already seen signs in leaked gameplay that bigs are significantly slower, so I hope that takes care of that.

I've played a lot of MLO with some friends throughout the summer and these are the things that have really stood out to me. When guys should be out of position reaching for steals, over playing passing lanes or jumping on pump fakes, it feels as if there is rarely punishment. We don't have sim rules in this league so guys tend to off-ball and take a lot of chances without much of penalty. I really hope it is something they fix, getting a guy out of position should be to your advantage more often than not.

[MrWrestling3]

Re: 2k Mechanics Open Discussion Thread

Agree with most of everything posted here....but in the interest of adding something new:

NEUTRAL OUTCOMES. NEUTRAL OUTCOMES. NEUTRAL OUTCOMES.

Instances where users can trigger a risky strategy and not succeed, but see no downside from FAILURE are crippling to gameplay. They totally negate the Risk/Reward aspect of H2H and imbalance the game horribly. Worse? It encourages SPAM because it rewards accuracy by volume. Even the rookie player understand why you should maximize attempts when there's little to no reward for failure.

Its the reason steal spam was a thing in 2K19 and why spam can be used to defend the rim--see here as Mirotic misses a block horribly but since there's little chance of a foul being called it works to his advantage by giving Giannis time to size up a block.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/2e3iMD_IQTY" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Or here when KD flat-out misses a steal but its still in position to stop a drive to the basket:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/e2GeXMCEZBE" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

No good can come from Neutral Outcomes.

What's silly is how backwards 2k got this.

On defense, reaching and jumping (i.e. gambling on defense) carries little to no penalty as opposed to taking the defender out of the play as it should.

Meanwhile, on blocked shots and tipped or otherwise loose balls where realistically the ball itself should behave in "neutral fashion" as it were, it tends to gravitate into the hands of nearest offensive player, sometimes even back to the player who lost the ball in the first place.

[tt500]

Re: 2k Mechanics Open Discussion Thread

Shot animations being more important than skill and ratings. There shouldnt be videos of best jumpshots and base 11 shots for myplayer or myteam modes.

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

[MrWrestling3]

Re: 2k Mechanics Open Discussion Thread

Shot animations being more important than skill and ratings. There shouldnt be videos of best jumpshots and base 11 shots for myplayer or myteam modes.

Sent from my LM-G710 using Tapatalk

This bothers me too...guys changing their jumper every month to whatever the new "Green every shot!" combination the youtubers are raving about.IMO In order for 2K to evolve, they have got to tone down and eliminate the exploiting of video game strategies in favor of players exploiting actual basketball strategies (i.e. mismatches,play actions,etc.)

[jeebs9]

Re: 2k Mechanics Open Discussion Thread

As much as I agree.... I think you guys forget. It's a video game.

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[MrWrestling3]

Re: 2k Mechanics Open Discussion Thread

As much as I agree.... I think you guys forget. It's a video game.

Sent from my Pixel XL using Tapatalk

Not really, at least not in my case anyway.I'm not even exceptionally against letting people go on Park or whatever and just ball out;all I want is to also be able to just hop online and play with and against people in a more realistic NBA style without it being a chore to set up.