NBA 2K20 Player Rating Edit Guide

[tarantism]

Re: NBA 2K20 Player Rating Edit Guide

Hey there, interesting thread.

I'm curious about what data sets and algorithms you use to land on these numbers? What, generally, leads you towards different sets of numbers and are they finite sums to equations or a more general feeling based on sets of data?

Feel free to be vague.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Operation Sports mobile app

[Real2KInsider]

Re: NBA 2K20 Player Rating Edit Guide

I have a question for you - its regarding intangibles attribute.

As you probably know yourself, there's been a lot of guessing about what does that paramatere even do, if anything specifically in terms of gameplay.

By the way you formed the quoted sentence, I have a strong suspicion you have a strong grip about it

Intangibles is nothing more than an OVR buff. I developed a scale for it before 2K did.

It matters less now because:
A. They decreased it's value. 10 points used to convert to 1 OVR, now it's about 15 IIRC.
B. Badges contribute to OVR. The fact that they didn't was probably the whole reason the attribute was invented in the first place.

For instance - Kawhi has his INT set to 25 (at least in the roster I've been using recently) and in last game I watched Clippers, he got a COLD ICON (a snowfluff) after only missing his first three shots![/quote]

Consistency ratings affect the Takeover meter (Hot/Cold). Badges (active team and the opponents) are also a factor. Turnovers, steals, blocks, assists, these things also factor in.

[Real2KInsider]

Re: NBA 2K20 Player Rating Edit Guide

I'm curious about what data sets and algorithms you use to land on these numbers? What, generally, leads you towards different sets of numbers and are they finite sums to equations or a more general feeling based on sets of data?

I use 2K's formulas. I've been doing this for 17 years and I figured out most of them at least a decade ago.

2K typically grants higher OVRs to starters because their lineup AI caters to that. Yet we're at a place where every modern team has backups that are better than starters (I liberally use "Force Non-Starter" to get around this).

[Real2KInsider]

Re: NBA 2K20 Player Rating Edit Guide

that would be very uninteresting. the detailed writeups from rashidi are what makes it special and interesting to read. what would you want to do with only ovr ratings?

I do have a list, but wouldn't want to post until I gave the same treatment to each player.

I would prefer to keep discussions away from "I can't believe you have Tim Hardaway Jr rated higher than Dillon Brooks" or what have you, which inevitably come with a full list.

Giving everything out all at once is also poor marketing.

[Real2KInsider]

Re: NBA 2K20 Player Rating Edit Guide

I've put about 20 hours into Final Fantasy 7 Remake the last two days. I'm booked until I beat it.

[cucoa69]

Re: NBA 2K20 Player Rating Edit Guide

Rashidi, I appreciate the work that you've done over the years, your attention to detail for a videogame is incredible. Would you happen to have files or documents for your edits on attributes and tendencies for the 2k10 and 2k11 rosters? I'm trying to bring some of those older rosters into 2K20 and/or 2K21. Although the system has changed over the years, it's hard to find accurate attributes for players during that time period so I would like to integrate some of your attributes and tendencies as a reference to get a more accurate depiction of player likeness. It would be much appreciated!

Thanks.

[cucoa69]

Re: NBA 2K20 Player Rating Edit Guide

P.S. if you do have files or documents for an editing guide, you can send it to [email protected] if that works for you. Thanks.

[Baebae32]

Re: NBA 2K20 Player Rating Edit Guide

Rashidi how do you feel about the removal of the moving/contested/open categories for the shooting ratings? I saw no reason for the removal. Would like your input

[Real2KInsider]

Re: NBA 2K20 Player Rating Edit Guide

Rashidi how do you feel about the removal of the moving/contested/open categories for the shooting ratings? I saw no reason for the removal. Would like your input

Absolutely love it. Badges negate the need for those ratings.

[Ilter]

Re: NBA 2K20 Player Rating Edit Guide

I just logged in to reply to this thread, I was reviewing the topics without logging in. But when I saw your work I couldn't stop without writing back a reply. It is obvious that it is a meticulous work product.

I'm more interested in creating my own rosters. The game of this year is the worst in the series in for me. Gameplay errors, mediocre of player animations, bad music, bad fans, etc. but worst of all, it's a ROSTER that can't even provide the opportunity to work on its own staff.

But this roster you created, value adjustments, rotations, position corrections are very consistent. This gave me a starting point. It has considerably reduced the time I would spend creating them. Thank you for that.

I have a few questions.. Are the center ratings a bit too high?? I read in some titles that this is different reason, badges? Howard 87, pretty surprised at first sight. vice versa D.Ayton 82 i found this low.

A second, is this roster good for MyLeague? I am a big fan of Offline MyLeague.

[Real2KInsider]

Re: NBA 2K20 Player Rating Edit Guide

I just logged in to reply to this thread, I was reviewing the topics without logging in. But when I saw your work I couldn't stop without writing back a reply. It is obvious that it is a meticulous work product.

I'm more interested in creating my own rosters. The game of this year is the worst in the series in for me. Gameplay errors, mediocre of player animations, bad music, bad fans, etc. but worst of all, it's a ROSTER that can't even provide the opportunity to work on its own staff.

For someone who spends as much time as I do in the menus, I have barely played the actual game on PS4 this generation. The route that 2K took over the last 5 years doesn't really appeal to me as a gamer. MyTeam and MyCareer (the catered-to-modes) are more like a pay-to-win mobile game than something that tickles me strategically.

I got back into Magic: the Gathering a few years ago. Strategic options, creativity, match variance, different game modes. There's also a much greater social aspect, as I was attending in-person events, going to tournaments w/ friends, things that don't happen as easily with video games. Infinitely more stimulating and enriching to me than the annual 2K grind.

But this roster you created, value adjustments, rotations, position corrections are very consistent. This gave me a starting point. It has considerably reduced the time I would spend creating them. Thank you for that.

No problem, that is one of the goals.

I have a few questions.. Are the center ratings a bit too high?? I read in some titles that this is different reason, badges? Howard 87, pretty surprised at first sight. vice versa D.Ayton 82 i found this low.

Howard is a tough one and worth a deeper analysis.
Part of it is formula - 2K typically loves an offensive rebounding / shot blocking center (Hassan Whiteside).

A second, is this roster good for MyLeague? I am a big fan of Offline MyLeague.

I would assume so. Contracts are up to date. I've also done coaching tweaks.

[Real2KInsider]

Re: NBA 2K20 Player Rating Edit Guide

9:10AM, start the clock on Dwight Howard writeup

Edit: 10:54AM completion, took a bit longer than expected.
Complex player and spent more time considering and explaining my thought process.

[ReturnoftheTmac]

Re: NBA 2K20 Player Rating Edit Guide

I’ve got a ML I started with the start today feature so no custom rosters. But I’ve. Been going thru (starting year 2) and editing each team before their first game then playing with them for their first game.

Any whoodle quick question. I’m not sure how much you actually play after reading your response above, but I’ve been going through tendencies, which 2K just gives 0 ****s about and I was curious if the drive sets up had much impact on game. I’ve edited every player I come across because in my mind they’re way off. So many players with jab step above 60 or triple threat shoot so high even tho they’re not ISO players or really offensive players at all. Almost every guys triple threat idle which I’m assuming is when the CPU will get it in game and just sit there “thinking” for like 5 seconds and it’s seems unauthentic if you’re trying to get somewhat SIM gameplay.

Anyways, sorry for being long winded I’m just trying to figure out this 2k tendency stuff and it seems like you know more about it than 2k does.

[Real2KInsider]

Re: NBA 2K20 Player Rating Edit Guide

Dwight Howard
Position: C
H/W/A: 6’10” / 265 lbs / 34 years
Archetype: Paint Beast
87 Overall (+6)

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/nyqbQSauL0s" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/zqnjfuNbOEA" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

The most difficult aspect of evaluating Dwight Howard is that this is the first time he has ever come off the bench. In 15 seasons prior, he came off the bench ONCE in 1,044 games. I think as fans we need to recognize that he SHOULD be a starter somewhere. NBA talent evaluators made a gigantic mistake this off-season.

In league where Taj Gibson got 8 million dollars to play the same amount of minutes, Dwight Howard took the minimum (non-guaranteed!) and almost went un-signed.

OFFENSE
85 Driving Layup (+8)
45 Post Fadeaway (-8)
75 Post Hook (+1)
75 Post Control (-4)
99 Draw Foul (+19)
76 Shot Close (-1)
63 Shot Mid (-6)
63 Shot 3pt (+3)
49 Free Throw (NC)
45 Ball Control (+5)
45 Pass Vision (+16)
50 Pass IQ (-7)
40 Pass Accuracy (+7)
98 Offensive Rebound (+7)
99 Standing Dunk (+9)
85 Driving Dunk (NC)
65 Shot IQ (-15)
70 Hands (-15)

Dwight's strengths are the same as ever. Dunks and offensive rebounds. A cross-comparison with Mitchell Robinson is worth a gander. Unlike Robinson, Howard has a semblance of a post game lurking about (a mediocre one, but it exists nonetheless). Howard's efficiency (70 TS%) is up as he has (FINALLY) gone away from it, and focused more on being a rim-roller.

DEFENSE
92 Defensive Rebound (+3)
90 Interior Defense (+9)
75 Perimeter Defense (+20)
91 Block (+3)
59 Steal (+22)
85 Shot Contest (+5)
80 Reaction Time (NC)

Howard's days as a DPOY-caliber player are long behind him. Yet he has never ceased to be a dominant post defender, to the point that few offensive players even bother trying. It is likewise worth comparing to Mitchell Robinson, who offers little defensively beyond his shot blocking. It may not show up in the stat sheet, but Howard's contributions are one of the reasons the Lakers are 3rd defensively.

ATHLETICISM
50 Lateral Quickness (-2)
55 Speed (-15)
45 Ball Speed (+20)
50 Acceleration (-4)
65 Vertical (-15)
90 Strength (-2)
75 Stamina (-5)
75 Hustle (NC)
85 Durability (+5)

2K giving Howard 70 speed in a year where they reduced everyone is a bonafide joke. He's 35 now. Why does he have the same athleticism ratings he had coming out of high school?

MENTAL
65 Pass Perception (-12)
75 Offensive Consistency (+35)
75 Defensive Consistency (-5)
60 PNR Defense (-17)
80 Help Defense (NC)
99 Intangibles (+59)
95 Potential (+11)

Quick reminder that 2K gave Mitchell Robinson 80 Offensive Consistency. They are practically the same player offensively.

The massive Intangibles difference adds three points of OVR here. 2K is masking his OVR by tanking his Intangibles. Another reminder that 2K gave Mitchell Robinson 98 Intangibles. The result?
2K has 83 OVR for Robinson / 81 OVR for Howard. Clearly, I philosophically disagree.

As glowingly as I spoke about Robinson, he is a raw 21 year old who still has a lot of growth. Whereas Howard is a 15-year NBA starter and historically great rebounder. He obviously isn't the same player he was at his peak - all I'm saying is he's closer to Clint Capela than he is to Cody Zeller.

13 BADGES (NC)
FINISHING (4): Pick & Roller (G), Backdown Punisher (S), Lob City Finisher (S), Putback Boss (S), Contact Finisher (B-ADD)
DEFENSE (8): Box (G), Moving Truck (G), Brick Wall (S), Intimidator (S), Rebound Chaser (S), Rim Protector (S), Worm (S), Post Move Lockdown (B)
PERSONALITY (5): Expressive, Extremely Confident, Friendly (ADD), Pat My Back, Warm Weather Fan (ADD)
REMOVE: Chase Down Artist (S), Enforcer, Reserved

Finally, OVR formula is partially to blame here. If Perimeter shooting were properly accounted for in Centers by 2K, players like Howard would rate lower.

87 Dwight Howard
85 DeAndre Jordan
83 Kristaps Porzingis
81 Brook Lopez

I think it's closer to 85 Porzingis/Howard and 83 Lopez/Jordan for example (-2 for Interior, +2 for Perimeter).

^This should tell you how much weight 2K puts into rebounding for Center OVR ratings.

[Real2KInsider]

Re: NBA 2K20 Player Rating Edit Guide

I’ve got a ML I started with the start today feature so no custom rosters. But I’ve. Been going thru (starting year 2) and editing each team before their first game then playing with them for their first game.

Any whoodle quick question. I’m not sure how much you actually play after reading your response above, but I’ve been going through tendencies, which 2K just gives 0 ****s about and I was curious if the drive sets up had much impact on game. I’ve edited every player I come across because in my mind they’re way off. So many players with jab step above 60 or triple threat shoot so high even tho they’re not ISO players or really offensive players at all. Almost every guys triple threat idle which I’m assuming is when the CPU will get it in game and just sit there “thinking” for like 5 seconds and it’s seems unauthentic if you’re trying to get somewhat SIM gameplay.

Anyways, sorry for being long winded I’m just trying to figure out this 2k tendency stuff and it seems like you know more about it than 2k does.

I agree with this assessment. One of the biggest shifts that NBA teams have made analytically over the years is how they value On-Ball possessions. We're in a star driven league more-so than ever before. There is a significant gap between how stars and role players behave.

One observation I've made about fans of 80s/90s basketball is that they often rue that players aren't developing their skills (read: shot creation) anymore. Cries that the mid-range game is dying. Yet these are shots that the vast majority of players shouldn't be taking.

To borrow some 2020 terminology, in the 80s/90s, the curve was flat. Most players looked to score.
For every great player, there were five more Enes Kanter's lingering about.

USG% ranks in 1986
8. Larry Bird: 58 TS% on 28 USG%
14. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar: 60 TS% on 27 USG%
21. Hakeem Olajuwon: 56 TS% on 26 USG%
29. Clyde Drexler: 53 TS% on 24 USG%
31. Isaiah Thomas: 55 TS% on 24 USG%
50. Charles Barkley: 62 TS% on 22 USG%

These league rankings are WILD. Hakeem Olajuwon was outside of the top 20 in Usage in a season that he finished 4th in MVP voting.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_1986_advanced.html

4. World B. Free: 53 TS% on 29 USG%
7. Mike Mitchell: 51 TS% on 28 USG%
12. Purvis Short: 55 TS% on 27 USG%
15. Joe Barry Carroll: 52 TS% on 27 USG%

The list of names getting more touches than All-Time greats is nuts. It's scattershot compared to today.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2020_advanced.html

18 players have 30 USG% in 2020 (compared to 3 in 1986). The worst among them is a toss between Zach LaVine and De'Aaron Fox. Last season, the worst players in the top 20 were LaVine and Donovan Mitchell.

Let's look at the 86 Rockets to further figure out why Olajuwon is so low.

1986 Rockets
Hakeem Olajuwon (C): 24.2 PER, 56 TS%, 26 USG%
Ralph Sampson (PF): 16.9 PER, 52 TS%, 24 USG%
Rodney McCray (SF): 13.6 PER, 58 TS%, 13 USG%
Lewis Lloyd (SG): 17.4 PER, 57 TS%, 23 USG%
John Lucas (PG): 17.4 PER, 53 TS%, 20 USG%

We have an All-Time great splitting shots with three other guys. This is what I mean by the curve being flat. These guys looked for their shot, and it reduced the number of touches at the top (i.e. flattening the curve). Michael Jordan would quickly establish the value in maximizing offensive possessions by not diluting them with lesser options.

2020 Rockets
Robert Covington (C): 14.1 PER, 57 TS%, 16 USG%
P.J. Tucker (PF): 8.7 PER, 58 TS%, 9 USG%
Danuel House (SG): 11.4 PER, 57 TS%, 14 USG%
James Harden (SG): 28.4 PER, 62 TS%, 36 USG%
Russell Westbrook (PG): 21.5 PER, 54 TS%, 34 USG%

There's a much wider gap between how stars and role players behave compared to 25 years ago.

NBA 2K's gameplay and programming principles are closer to 1980s basketball than modern basketball in a number of facets, and this area is one of them. The sport changed rapidly over the last 20 years, and design decisions like this are largely a hold-over from a bygone era, albeit one that I think a few developers still yearn for.