Is passing the ball a liability in this game?

[BasketBalla21]

Re: Is passing the ball a liability in this game?

I'm sorry, but this just isn't true. Even with proper teamwork and timing, these aggressive zones come up with far too many turnovers against correct passing decisions. Further, I'm not sure where you're seeing Man defenses being nerfed in terms of passing lane INTs? It's widely known (at least in the MyTeam community) that playing the lanes is the single most effective defensive strategy in the game. You can make all the right reads-- send backdoors all night because they're specifically guarding against the three-point line-- but still have double digit turnovers all because the passer chooses to send it straight into the defender's hands, even while he's behind the cutter.

I'm not sure we're playing the same game, friend.

I'm sure many of you think you're making the right decisions, but you're either not, or your timing is way off.

[ForeverVersatile]

Re: Is passing the ball a liability in this game?

It's a problem if you don't have a gameplan. If you actually put your players in the right spots and use proper teamwork and timing zones are easily beaten. Passing around the perimeter does not beat an aggressive zone. Long defenders can gap their man and still catch a pass to the corner(Kawhi makes a living off of this).

The only reason it SEEMS like zone has OP passing lane defense is because Man 2 Man passing lane defense was nerfed. When you activate zone defense all help defenders watch and face the ball handler. This gives them access to better animations to steal the ball. Man 2 man defense forces off-ball defenders to watch the player they are defending. So even if you time the steal correctly they will most likely just tip it out off bounds or not even reach the ball.

An aggressive zone isn't beaten with just spacing, it's beaten with proper teamwork and timing. It's not the game's fault your passes are getting stolen, it's the player's.

The ball goes directly to the defenders for some unknown reason..nothing to do with a zone

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[mb625]

Re: Is passing the ball a liability in this game?

I'm sure many of you think you're making the right decisions, but you're either not, or your timing is way off.

Look at Kushmir's videos and tell me he's not seeing the game correctly. The only real time where I feel like he makes a rushed read is on the cross-court pass to Richardson, but even then, that's more likely to go out of bounds than end up with Tucker. These are the reads we're talking about. I have no problem admitting it if it's legitimately the incorrect read. The problem is that we're making the right passes, but 2k's logic isn't allowing them through

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[mb625]

Re: Is passing the ball a liability in this game?

The ball goes directly to the defenders for some unknown reason..nothing to do with a zone

Sent from my SM-N960U using Operation Sports mobile app

Right. Zone defense just happens to exacerbate the problem because it's coupled with unrealistic recovery speed thanks to iffy catch animations.

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[BasketBalla21]

Re: Is passing the ball a liability in this game?

Look at Kushmir's videos and tell me he's not seeing the game correctly. The only real time where I feel like he makes a rushed read is on the cross-court pass to Richardson, but even then, that's more likely to go out of bounds than end up with Tucker. These are the reads we're talking about. I have no problem admitting it if it's legitimately the incorrect read. The problem is that we're making the right passes, but 2k's logic isn't allowing them through

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

I did, and they are stolen by set defenders waiting for a pass(one could have made it but was miss-timed), and the pass to the paint was disrupted by a defender playing good D(should have been a lob pass anyway). It's not out of the ordinary for a defender to make a good play.

Seems like people are examining replays just to look at how the game "cheated" them instead of exhausting all of their options on how things can be done better first.

It might be a hard pill to swallow, but playing against the HOF computer does not build good habits. They don't use proper technique to beat you, the sliders are moved in their favor. Playing Play Now Online does not build good habits. Most people are mediocre and they let you get away with bad habits. Playing normal people online does not mean you have good habits. Most people have bad habits.

Bad habits should be punished. In any game.

Just because you run into an area that punishes you for your bad habits does not mean that area of the game is wrong. Objectivity is key.

[mb625]

Re: Is passing the ball a liability in this game?

I did, and they are stolen by set defenders waiting for a pass(one could have made it but was miss-timed), and the pass to the paint was disrupted by a defender playing good D(should have been a lob pass anyway). It's not out of the ordinary for a defender to make a good play.

Seems like people are examining replays just to look at how the game "cheated" them instead of exhausting all of their options on how things can be done better first.

It might be a hard pill to swallow, but playing against the HOF computer does not build good habits. They don't use proper technique to beat you, the sliders are moved in their favor. Playing Play Now Online does not build good habits. Most people are mediocre and they let you get away with bad habits. Playing normal people online does not mean you have good habits. Most people have bad habits.

Bad habits should be punished. In any game.

Just because you run into an area that punishes you for your bad habits does not mean that area of the game is wrong. Objectivity is key.

Those clips don't demonstrate "bad habits." They demonstrate instances in which the AI, not necessarily the user, chose the wrong pass. Set defenders or no, when you've got a player that wide open, no NBA player is tossing it right into the defenders hands. They're smart enough to choose the right type of pass for the situation. Icon passing seems to hinder that ability. There's a way through those defenders with Horford underneath the basket. There's a way to avoid Davis' hands with Horford in the corner. The AI didn't choose to find that way. Instead, it threw it to the opponent's hands instead of where it was supposed to go. I've had it happen countless times to me this year, where I beat the user defender on a backdoor cut, let go of triangle when my player has a step and... the AI throws behind him straight to the defender.

Again, if those defenders make a play, and you're right, they absolutely can, that's fantastic. The user defender switches to Davis in the clip with Horford in the corner and steps out to steal the pass going around him? Great! That's perfectly fine. But as it stands, the AI is throwing the ball to the defender rather than the intended target, and there's no amount of reading the game that's going to fix that.

Edit: It should also be noted that we're not coming from a place of "the game cheated me in x, y and z way." We're coming from a place that wants this game simply to behave in a true to life manner. My passer shouldn't be throwing it straight to a defender fifteen feet away from the intended target. Period. You shouldn't just be able to sit in a zone and miraculously be able to have a chance to intercept a pass regardless of which target it's thrown to (which I've legitimately seen players sitting in "center field" spamming steal and getting a favorable outcome regardless of the intended target). Just as their real life counterparts need to make the right decision to make the play, so do defenders in this game, as long as we cannot have complete control over pass types.

[UravenzownU]

Re: Is passing the ball a liability in this game?

Lol there a reason no nba team plays zone consistently irl

[keshunleon]

Re: Is passing the ball a liability in this game?

I did, and they are stolen by set defenders waiting for a pass(one could have made it but was miss-timed), and the pass to the paint was disrupted by a defender playing good D(should have been a lob pass anyway). It's not out of the ordinary for a defender to make a good play.

Seems like people are examining replays just to look at how the game "cheated" them instead of exhausting all of their options on how things can be done better first.

It might be a hard pill to swallow, but playing against the HOF computer does not build good habits. They don't use proper technique to beat you, the sliders are moved in their favor. Playing Play Now Online does not build good habits. Most people are mediocre and they let you get away with bad habits. Playing normal people online does not mean you have good habits. Most people have bad habits.

Bad habits should be punished. In any game.

Just because you run into an area that punishes you for your bad habits does not mean that area of the game is wrong. Objectivity is key.

I play 90% offline HOF and the physics are lacking and I understand that. When I make a pass and the defender isn't looking but turns around to pick off the pass that's thrown behind the cutter is a problem.

BUT my player is playing tight D and the CPU makes a pass and my CPU controlled player watches the pass but doesn't respond is another issue..

Why have passing ratings but there is no difference between CP3 and Pat Beveryly?

[BasketBalla21]

Re: Is passing the ball a liability in this game?

Those clips don't demonstrate "bad habits." They demonstrate instances in which the AI, not necessarily the user, chose the wrong pass. Set defenders or no, when you've got a player that wide open, no NBA player is tossing it right into the defenders hands. They're smart enough to choose the right type of pass for the situation. Icon passing seems to hinder that ability. There's a way through those defenders with Horford underneath the basket. There's a way to avoid Davis' hands with Horford in the corner. The AI didn't choose to find that way. Instead, it threw it to the opponent's hands instead of where it was supposed to go. I've had it happen countless times to me this year, where I beat the user defender on a backdoor cut, let go of triangle when my player has a step and... the AI throws behind him straight to the defender.

If there is a set defender ready to steal the ball then the player is not wide open and most likely the pass shouldn't be made. There is a lob pass but lob passes float. That is why coaches teach against cross court passes. Can you get away with it if the defender isn't paying attention? Sure, but the defenders in 2k while playing zone always pay attention to passing lanes. So throwing those passes is a bad habit you get from playing against other people(and the cpu) with bad habits.

You can't arc a pass when you're posting up on the opposite box by the baseline. If you want to pass from the post you post up in the middle of the floor. Passing over/through 3 defenders is never encouraged. All I see are bad habits and bad timing.

[mb625]

Re: Is passing the ball a liability in this game?

Even things like this happen too often. It's fairly clear that, in this situation, I'm trying to pass to Doumboya at the FT Line. 2k's AI does not agree. Now, a pass to Doumboya might have been dangerous, but it was certainly a heck of a lot better decision than the pass to Bagley I actually got. These kinds of things happen far too often.

https://www.twitch.tv/mbless1415/clip/SmilingSpotlessVultureCorgiDerp?filter=clips&range=all&sort=time

[mb625]

Re: Is passing the ball a liability in this game?

If there is a set defender ready to steal the ball then the player is not wide open and most likely the pass shouldn't be made. There is a lob pass but lob passes float. That is why coaches teach against cross court passes. Can you get away with it if the defender isn't paying attention? Sure, but the defenders in 2k while playing zone always pay attention to passing lanes. So throwing those passes is a bad habit you get from playing against other people(and the cpu) with bad habits.

You can't arc a pass when you're posting up on the opposite box by the baseline. If you want to pass from the post you post up in the middle of the floor. Passing over/through 3 defenders is never encouraged. All I see are bad habits and bad timing.

https://www.mavsmoneyball.com/2019/11/12/20960685/luka-doncic-passing-to-the-corner-boston-celtics

Take a look at the first example GIF here. Here we find a "set defender," even closer to the offensive player in the corner than Davis is in the 2k example. Luka makes the pass. Why? because he chose the correct pass (a lob over a flatfooted defender, who, by the way was PAYING ATTENTION, but still didn't predict the correct pass!) and didn't get sucked into some weird, straight-at-the-defender-in-front-of-you thing. Why is it too much to ask for the AI to simply choose the correct pass when two defenders are that close?

[mb625]

Re: Is passing the ball a liability in this game?

If there is a set defender ready to steal the ball then the player is not wide open and most likely the pass shouldn't be made. There is a lob pass but lob passes float. That is why coaches teach against cross court passes. Can you get away with it if the defender isn't paying attention? Sure, but the defenders in 2k while playing zone always pay attention to passing lanes. So throwing those passes is a bad habit you get from playing against other people(and the cpu) with bad habits.

You can't arc a pass when you're posting up on the opposite box by the baseline. If you want to pass from the post you post up in the middle of the floor. Passing over/through 3 defenders is never encouraged. All I see are bad habits and bad timing.

Jokic in this first clip is another great example. Three "set defenders" who all could make a play. They don't, because Jokic chose the correct pass.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/kDA0UMksDSE" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[tru11]

Re: Is passing the ball a liability in this game?

Those clips don't demonstrate "bad habits." They demonstrate instances in which the AI, not necessarily the user, chose the wrong pass. Set defenders or no, when you've got a player that wide open, no NBA player is tossing it right into the defenders hands. They're smart enough to choose the right type of pass for the situation. Icon passing seems to hinder that ability. There's a way through those defenders with Horford underneath the basket. There's a way to avoid Davis' hands with Horford in the corner. The AI didn't choose to find that way. Instead, it threw it to the opponent's hands instead of where it was supposed to go. I've had it happen countless times to me this year, where I beat the user defender on a backdoor cut, let go of triangle when my player has a step and... the AI throws behind him straight to the defender.

Again, if those defenders make a play, and you're right, they absolutely can, that's fantastic. The user defender switches to Davis in the clip with Horford in the corner and steps out to steal the pass going around him? Great! That's perfectly fine. But as it stands, the AI is throwing the ball to the defender rather than the intended target, and there's no amount of reading the game that's going to fix that.

Edit: It should also be noted that we're not coming from a place of "the game cheated me in x, y and z way." We're coming from a place that wants this game simply to behave in a true to life manner. My passer shouldn't be throwing it straight to a defender fifteen feet away from the intended target. Period. You shouldn't just be able to sit in a zone and miraculously be able to have a chance to intercept a pass regardless of which target it's thrown to (which I've legitimately seen players sitting in "center field" spamming steal and getting a favorable outcome regardless of the intended target). Just as their real life counterparts need to make the right decision to make the play, so do defenders in this game, as long as we cannot have complete control over pass types.

Different type of passes have different button imputs.

If you use the wrong type of pass its your fault and not the AI.

Nba players turn the ball over all the time as well.

A game without a single turnover is rare.

I recommend icon passing with lead passing off and adjusting the pass target profile to what works for you.

Pno or jrc i have little issue completing passes even with my 36 pass rating on my interior force.
Silver needle thread helps though as it makes the pass go faster giving defenders less to react.



Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[mb625]

Re: Is passing the ball a liability in this game?

Different type of passes have different button imputs.

If you use the wrong type of pass its your fault and not the AI.

Nba players turn the ball over all the time as well.

A game without a single turnover is rare.

I recommend icon passing with lead passing off and adjusting the pass target profile to what works for you.

Pno or jrc i have little issue completing passes even with my 36 pass rating on my interior force.
Silver needle thread helps though as it makes the pass go faster giving defenders less to react.



Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

With "bait" defensive strategies, I have to leave Icons on Total Receiver Control to prevent bad cuts already. I cannot control when my passer chooses to send it straight to the defender's chest vs. throwing it to where the receiver legitimately is. We're not asking for there never to be any turnovers. They should just be realistic. You make the right pass, but the defender makes the right play? Great! I make a wrong read (like here: https://www.twitch.tv/mbless1415/cli...ll&sort=time)? Hey, you bet that oughta be a Turnover.

But when you're making the right read, no one is nearby the pass receiver and your passer chooses to send it straight to the defender's chest instead, like in the clip with Embiid? Nope. That should not happen. Don't make this any harder on the passer than it already is with OP passing lane steals and bad AI cuts and decisions.

EDIT: Note also, that this isn't about the Rec. This is in a 5 v. 5 setting where you can only control one at a time. I've had little issue with passing in the Rec.

[keshunleon]

Re: Is passing the ball a liability in this game?

Different type of passes have different button imputs.

If you use the wrong type of pass its your fault and not the AI.

Nba players turn the ball over all the time as well.

A game without a single turnover is rare.

I recommend icon passing with lead passing off and adjusting the pass target profile to what works for you.

Pno or jrc i have little issue completing passes even with my 36 pass rating on my interior force.
Silver needle thread helps though as it makes the pass go faster giving defenders less to react.



Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

What are you talking about?

We don't determine what types of passes happen. I'll have a wide open player and pass the ball and the player tries to throw it through the defender and not around.

In certain situations 2K has predetermined passes, I've done a bounce pass and get a regular pass.

A chest pass but we get an over head pass.

A wrap around pass but we get a chess pass.

A one hand pass off the dribble but we get the dribbler picking up the ball stopping all the momentum to throw a 2 handed pass switching from the right hand to make a bad pass.

Give us control of our passes: tap, hold, or the better passers pick the best passes.