Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

[strosdood]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

You can have no switch if you put the hedge player at "stay attached". I think its a separate option, though. And it works only on PNRs, I guess, not for off-screens.

Btw, after experimenting a lot in MyLeague CPU vs CPU games (you can see two of those here - Suns trashed Lakers by 30, LOL) it seems guys from this forums have been right:

=> Play passing lanes has the greatest impact on the way players behave while playing HelpD.

But... the drawback is obvious... a lot less turnovers.


The best thing would be for 2k studios to just fix the bloody game.

Do they (da czar?) even read this forums?


How can one contact them and get some attention, because, its clear they have followed the pulse of the community, they fixed some issues from 2k20 version.

If u switch the defensive settings to “switch all” it fixes the problem for the most part but u have to do it at the beginning of every game for the cpu........ I’ve played 5 games doing this is MyNba and have had some killer games with Schnaidt1 sliders and that 1 tweak to the cpu defensive settings


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[Vedreanu]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

If u switch the defensive settings to “switch all” it fixes the problem for the most part but u have to do it at the beginning of every game for the cpu........ I’ve played 5 games doing this is MyNba and have had some killer games with Schnaidt1 sliders and that 1 tweak to the cpu defensive settings

I've had "Switch all" for both onball and offball screens, but this setting didnt stick throughout game (again CPU vs CPU). Maybe "cut passing lanes" slider way producing problems there, as well, but I doubt it.

I think AI/ACE just takes on control after a short while in CPU vs CPU.

Thats very sad, I dont realize why 2K studios wont let us "play" in true Coach mode, that could be a hit.

[bls]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

You can have no switch if you put the hedge player at "stay attached". I think its a separate option, though. And it works only on PNRs, I guess, not for off-screens.

Btw, after experimenting a lot in MyLeague CPU vs CPU games (you can see two of those here - Suns trashed Lakers by 30, LOL) it seems guys from this forums have been right:

=> Play passing lanes has the greatest impact on the way players behave while playing HelpD.

But... the drawback is obvious... a lot less turnovers.


The best thing would be for 2k studios to just fix the bloody game.

Do they (da czar?) even read this forums?


How can one contact them and get some attention, because, its clear they have followed the pulse of the community, they fixed some issues from 2k20 version.

I don’t mean just switching on actual picks, I’m talking off screen switches as well. I should be able to pick no switching period, be it on the ball or off the ball.


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[ChaseB]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

If u switch the defensive settings to “switch all” it fixes the problem for the most part but u have to do it at the beginning of every game for the cpu........ I’ve played 5 games doing this is MyNba and have had some killer games with Schnaidt1 sliders and that 1 tweak to the cpu defensive settings


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

Switch all on pick and rolls? Or you mean off/on-ball screens?

[strosdood]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

Switch all on pick and rolls? Or you mean off/on-ball screens?

I go to defensive coach settings and as the team focus I change it to “switch” and it helps a lot it seems


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[Vedreanu]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

I just discovered each player has a hidden attribute called "PICK AND ROLL DEFENSE IQ".

You can find it in his editing menu - click on the player when in ROSTER, then choose "EDIT PLAYER" in the menu that shows.

There choose "ATTRIBUTES" and "MENTAL", PNR IQ is the last value.

So I raised this to 99 for all player - in the first quarter it went pretty well. Paired with "Switch All" and "Stay attached: No" the hedge defender did a good defense in 90+% of the cases.

As the game progressed (and I changed sliders towards where I naturally want to have them for other features to work), idiotic behaviour prevailed again.

CHECK THIS ONE for example.

I think the problem is the onball defender - if he chases the PNR ball handler, the hedge defender will just ignore him and stay put on the ball roller.

If the onball defender gets stuck in the roll man's screen, then the hedge defender is going to cover the ball handler's drive.


Or maybe the problem is in CPL slider, maybe not, but to be honest - I am just fed up with this game and I think Im gonna not touch until they fix it.

I recommend you do the same.


PS. NBA 2k20 is a holiday resort comparing to this broken product!

HelpD is really smooth there.
Does anyone know a good 20/21 roster for 2k20?

[BaselineBakes]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

As the game progressed (and I changed sliders towards where I naturally want to have them for other features to work), idiotic behaviour prevailed again.

The more I mess with it, the more I think the Help D IQ and help D IQ slider does something unintentionally that messes with what we’re all trying to achieve. I go back and forth to default sliders and default plays a better game overall but still has the occurrence of super poor pick and roll instances. The moment I start plugging in help D sliders/roster edits, it plays well sometimes but it can get REALLY wonky more times than even on default.

Something is very screwy with this. I think the problem lies with trying to solve this with the defender on-ball and the defender off-ball when the real issue is that the weak side defender doesn’t show and rotate often enough. That coupled with no force field makes the off-ball defender on the drop down not helpful anyway.

Pick and roll defense was really solid in, I want to say 2K18, the big would hedge and the weak side would drop over. The drive and kick was awesome and you’d get three point opportunities from the proper spaces that an nba offense would. 2K19 and 2k20 it seems wanted to protect the corner three at all cost and the defense to the pick and roll changed to massive amounts of body ups and bumping. The game this year is much more free flowing and with less body ups you can just run to the rim freely and without the weak side defense rotating properly it’s a PIP nightmare.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CujoMatty]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

I hope this week is the week we get a patch. I've had to put this down for now.

[Vedreanu]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

Yes, BaselineBakes, you are totally right with your observation. Weak side help is non-existant, I actually dont recall ever witnessing a corner defender coming to help on an obviously penetrated PNR defense, eventhough he was obviously looking at that direction.

This is really a big issuse, because in reality, bad PNR reactions happen, and what we are trying to achieve (100% perfect PNR defense solutions) is definitely not realistic, but at least is more watchable than what we have now.


The way you speak about 2k18, I wanna play it now!

Do you know where can one download it with no risks?

[rudyjuly2]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

I hope this week is the week we get a patch. I've had to put this down for now.

Brian Mazique suggested that we would likely see a patch this week for MyNBA (and hopefully some of this).

[Antonioshellz]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

In 2K18 people complained about the "Otto Porter" defense which gave up open 3s in the corner. So it looks like emphasis was place on guarding the corner 3s the following year.

The more I mess with it, the more I think the Help D IQ and help D IQ slider does something unintentionally that messes with what we’re all trying to achieve. I go back and forth to default sliders and default plays a better game overall but still has the occurrence of super poor pick and roll instances. The moment I start plugging in help D sliders/roster edits, it plays well sometimes but it can get REALLY wonky more times than even on default.

Something is very screwy with this. I think the problem lies with trying to solve this with the defender on-ball and the defender off-ball when the real issue is that the weak side defender doesn’t show and rotate often enough. That coupled with no force field makes the off-ball defender on the drop down not helpful anyway.

Pick and roll defense was really solid in, I want to say 2K18, the big would hedge and the weak side would drop over. The drive and kick was awesome and you’d get three point opportunities from the proper spaces that an nba offense would. 2K19 and 2k20 it seems wanted to protect the corner three at all cost and the defense to the pick and roll changed to massive amounts of body ups and bumping. The game this year is much more free flowing and with less body ups you can just run to the rim freely and without the weak side defense rotating properly it’s a PIP nightmare.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sent from my SM-N986U1 using Operation Sports mobile app

[BaselineBakes]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

In 2K18 people complained about the "Otto Porter" defense which gave up open 3s in the corner. So it looks like emphasis was place on guarding the corner 3s the following year.

Sent from my SM-N986U1 using Operation Sports mobile app

Yup, I remember that now. In 2k18 with some sliders on the jump shot defense strength and release I was able to make close outs a little more effective to mirror the show and get back defense that NBA teams do every play. For online it was an absolute nightmare though because corner threes were wide open all the time. We just need balance here, I feel like it’s close.

I hope we get to a point where the pick and roll game should be a read and react and the CPU ai should be switching up how they defend it throughout the game to keep us off balance. I’ve probably gotten through over 40 games in myNBA and some teams scheme it better than others with their defensive settings. The teams that are set to hard hedge and stick to it all game are Swiss cheese without rotations.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[EccentricMeat]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

I got a "return to the main menu" update today, and now I THINK every team has had their defensive settings defaulted to Switch and Pre-Rotate, so now with the right sliders their help and PnR defense is actually pretty damn good.

I've played against the Lakers, Clippers, Nets, Rockets, Bucks, Celtics, Heat, Mavs, and 76ers (not full games but long enough to test PnR defense and help D for each), and both USER and CPU defense has been much improved.

I even jacked up Play Passing Lanes to 100 and the hedge defender still dropped or switched to defend the drive most of the time. There were a few instances that the hedge abandoned the lane to cover the screener (when the screener was set to Fade instead of Roll), but that was only a few times and that was only with Play Passing Lanes set 75-100. It was rare enough that I can definitely live with it, and the help D was usually strong enough that someone rotating over to help protect the rim almost always made up for the hedge defender sticking to the screener.

Is everyone else seeing the same thing?

[alabamarob]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

I got a "return to the main menu" update today, and now I THINK every team has had their defensive settings defaulted to Switch and Pre-Rotate, so now with the right sliders their help and PnR defense is actually pretty damn good.

I've played against the Lakers, Clippers, Nets, Rockets, Bucks, Celtics, Heat, Mavs, and 76ers (not full games but long enough to test PnR defense and help D for each), and both USER and CPU defense has been much improved.

I even jacked up Play Passing Lanes to 100 and the hedge defender still dropped or switched to defend the drive most of the time. There were a few instances that the hedge abandoned the lane to cover the screener (when the screener was set to Fade instead of Roll), but that was only a few times and that was only with Play Passing Lanes set 75-100. It was rare enough that I can definitely live with it, and the help D was usually strong enough that someone rotating over to help protect the rim almost always made up for the hedge defender sticking to the screener.

Is everyone else seeing the same thing?

Defensive settings still not working for me. Pre rotate setting not working. Leave him setting not working. Bigs still watching straight line drives

[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

Prior to release, Czar was saying pNr improvements would be patched in.

Has he confirmed that update was included in a patch?