Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

[BaselineBakes]

Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

I have been advocating for more drop coverage in the cpu decision making which I don’t quite understand.

But this drop coverage should have helped and then Crowder just stands there and doesn’t defend the basket which is the entire point of Drop! Patch please!
https://twitter.com/rudyjuly2/status...730479104?s=21

This happens entirely too much. The defender is right there in great position and he acts like a traffic cone! I know contextual animations may not be for everyone but here’s an instance where they seem to be necessary.


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[BaselineBakes]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

And maybe just improve the cpu offense logic a bit to make them a bit more variable and challenging.

This is how I’ve been getting good games. I’ve given up on making the ease at which I score two pointers harder and instead made the cpu more proficient at shooting threes. Therefore I have to hoist threes to keep up with the cpu instead of just pounding the paint relentlessly. The stats aren’t ideal but it keeps the games close and interesting and if I want to get stops on defense I have to lock in.

It’s not a fix at all but in a sense they’re house rules to keep me away from PNR every time down.


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[CujoMatty]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

I have been advocating for more drop coverage in the cpu decision making which I don’t quite understand.

But this drop coverage should have helped and then Crowder just stands there and doesn’t defend the basket which is the entire point of Drop! Patch please!
https://twitter.com/rudyjuly2/status...730479104?s=21

I really only have 2 problems with this game. Obviously 1 is the PNR. 2 is the lack of fouls and free throw attempts for the CPU. Both of these could be solved if the big would drop and defend the basket. More contests at the basket would mean more free throws.

Crossing my fingers for a fix soon. I miss playing.

[strosdood]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

I played a ton last night and I had some of the best games I can ever remember on a 2K game...... very minimal lapses by the CPU...... using Schnaidt1 sliders and adjusting the defensive settings to switch for the AI


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[EccentricMeat]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

This happens entirely too much. The defender is right there in great position and he acts like a traffic cone! I know contextual animations may not be for everyone but here’s an instance where they seem to be necessary.


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Contextual animations are a must and are by far the biggest missing feature in next gen 2K21. I can max out all the contact sliders and still have the game ignore nearby defenders or slide people out of the way. 0 contact animations in the game for off-ball contact, nearby defenders just ignoring the play, or even a defender in the right spot but just refusing to actually contest a shot.

I have no idea how the very basics of basketball have been scrapped or ignored by 2K. And now we even have Czar tweeting about how ungrateful and unworthy sim gamers are [emoji23]

Cyberpunk 2077 in 7 hours LETS GO

[Vedreanu]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

Well, those ungrateful ones are not gona give more ungrateful $$$ anymore, thats for sure.

[Vedreanu]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

It seems to me that with them saying its been built from the ground up, is that they have looked to alter the engine of the gameplay so things like the step back two pointer is more of a thing. But this has come at a massive cost to the pick and roll.

I would be very surprised if this gets completely fixed In this version. It's all collateral and any alteration to p and r will have a knock on effect to something else and its probably a very long process ironing out this sort of thing.

If they were to implement a 3 man help defense it would probably lead to a cheese easy 3 every time so that would take loads of adjustment. Then if they were to improve the logic of the reactions of the hedge man perhaps that will lead to something else being affected such as interceptions.

It feels the most important fix would be to improve the reactions of the d and the ability to get round the screen firstly but also the positioning of the second man and his reactions are one of the main issues. It's a very complicated process, but at the same time i would imagine that the last gen version doesn't have these kind of issues?? and if that is the case it might make sense for an update to come out and revert the ai defense to that of the last gen so next gen users who like to play against the cpu can at least have a playable game to play. Because as many have said, the game is no challenge when you can get to the hoop unchallenged whenever you want with a fast player

HelpD is crap on last gen, too.

[CujoMatty]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

I'm worried.

I have just been assuming that there was going to be a fix for this issue but when I try and search anything out on the issue I find nothing.

Forbes wrote an article about conversations with people from 2k and issues they are looking into fixing with upcoming patches. Nothing even close to pick and roll or defense issues are mentioned.

I've seen people comment about Czar saying he was implementing fixes in the "next patch" but that was before the last patch. I guess I assumed that because it didnt happen in the last patch, it would happen in the next. The problem is I cant find any actual info from Czar saying anything about a fix.

If you google search the issue basically this thread is the only thing that shows up.

I've lost the ability to find enjoyment in this game mostly because this issue has made the game very formulaic and predictable. Possessions eventually break down and although I try to house rule myself into not abusing the horrible interior defense, it becomes unavoidable.

Does anyone have any direct info that this is actually being fixed?

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

Contextual animations are a must and are by far the biggest missing feature in next gen 2K21. I can max out all the contact sliders and still have the game ignore nearby defenders or slide people out of the way. 0 contact animations in the game for off-ball contact, nearby defenders just ignoring the play, or even a defender in the right spot but just refusing to actually contest a shot.

I have no idea how the very basics of basketball have been scrapped or ignored by 2K. And now we even have Czar tweeting about how ungrateful and unworthy sim gamers are [emoji23]

Cyberpunk 2077 in 7 hours LETS GO

You mean the tweet he's had pinned since January? Let's not put false information out there.

Let's see what happens. Czar is definitely aware of the issue. The stuff he works on isn't the stuff that trends or has Google articles written.

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[bls]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

So I ask again. Does anybody have both current and next gen titles? If so, is the defensive settings broken like it is on next gen? I’m not talking about whether pip is high or you can’t stop the drives still or anything like that.

I’m asking, if I set for my defender to leave his man in the settings does he actually do it? If I set to pre-rotate, do they actually do it? Is the defense for 2k21 CURRENT GEN, the same as 2k20?

Once again, I’m not asking if defense is any good or not. If it’s a replicant of 2k20 I can go with that, but if it’s exactly the same as 2k21 NEXT GEN I’ll pass on that one as well.

I don’t really care about the graphics upgrade at the moment. Hell I’d stay on 2k20 if the rosters were updated for online play.

Any feedback is greatly appreciated


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[EccentricMeat]

Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

You mean the tweet he's had pinned since January? Let's not put false information out there.

Let's see what happens. Czar is definitely aware of the issue. The stuff he works on isn't the stuff that trends or has Google articles written.

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Does the date of the tweet change the content of it? I have no idea how anyone can read that tweet and excuse what he’s saying. The tweet simply boils down to “People expect realistic basketball in their $70 basketball game, but they don’t even buy VC so why should we listen to them?”.

I mean, everyone in this thread is just asking for basic, fundamental defense to exist in the game. And maybe for defensive settings to stick and work as intended. Not asking for them to move mountains.

If I buy VC then can I complain? My $70 purchase doesn’t qualify my feedback, I guess, so I just wanted clarification. The least they could do is keep us in the loop. If they can’t fix it this year, then come out and tell us instead of staying silent while we all wait.

[rudyjuly2]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

Does the date of the tweet change the content of it? I have no idea how anyone can read that tweet and excuse what he’s saying. The tweet simply boils down to “People expect realistic basketball in their $70 basketball game, but they don’t even buy VC so why should we listen to them?”.

I mean, everyone in this thread is just asking for basic, fundamental defense to exist in the game. And maybe for defensive settings to stick and work as intended. Not asking for them to move mountains.

If I buy VC then can I complain? My $70 purchase doesn’t qualify my feedback, I guess, so I just wanted clarification. The least they could do is keep us in the loop. If they can’t fix it this year, then come out and tell us instead of staying silent while we all wait.

That is not how I interpret his tweet at all. His point was that the old school franchise guys complain about the MyPlayer VC and focus of the game (I’m guilty). But all of those new school gamers that spend VC make 2K a lot of money which allows them to invest more resources into franchise. Without MyPlayer profits maybe our offline and franchise stuff wouldn’t be as good as it is. Look at EA amd see how garbage their franchise mode is and we can cut them some slack.

I do want the defensive issues fixed. I also understand with Scott O’Gallager leaving they put Czar in charge very late and he’s trying to learn the new system and make fixes at the same time. I think we will get a fix. We just need a little patience.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

Does the date of the tweet change the content of it? I have no idea how anyone can read that tweet and excuse what he’s saying. The tweet simply boils down to “People expect realistic basketball in their $70 basketball game, but they don’t even buy VC so why should we listen to them?”.

I mean, everyone in this thread is just asking for basic, fundamental defense to exist in the game. And maybe for defensive settings to stick and work as intended. Not asking for them to move mountains.

If I buy VC then can I complain? My $70 purchase doesn’t qualify my feedback, I guess, so I just wanted clarification. The least they could do is keep us in the loop. If they can’t fix it this year, then come out and tell us instead of staying silent while we all wait.

You're serious? Yes, yes it does....because it stemmed from an entirely different conversation...10 months ago. It's like looking through your posts and applying one of your replies to an entirely different subject to fit my narrative. I don't know how anyone can view that as logical. It doesn't "boil down" to anything close to what you said.

I definitely expected better of you framing that tweet like it was a reply to this situation. Thought you would at least have more respect for Czar. Nobody disagrees with the subject of the thread. I know I don't. Be upset if you want, expect communication, all of that. Don't sink down to this though. Come on man.

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[EccentricMeat]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

You're serious? Yes, yes it does....because it stemmed from an entirely different conversation...10 months ago. It's like looking through your posts and applying one of your replies to an entirely different subject to fit my narrative. I don't know how anyone can view that as logical. It doesn't "boil down" to anything close to what you said.

I definitely expected better of you framing that tweet like it was a reply to this situation. Thought you would at least have more respect for Czar. Nobody disagrees with the subject of the thread. I know I don't. Be upset if you want, expect communication, all of that. Don't sink down to this though. Come on man.

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Him pinning the tweet means it's not just a contextual statement that only applied at the moment he posted it. Why point out that sim gamers "complain the most and spend the least" if you're not trying to minimize the voice of those bringing up the issues? I've been a huge fan of Czar for years and always gave him my respect, but when you come out with a statement like that I think it's fair to call it into question.

Couple that sentiment with the STEEP downward slope offline-gameplay has been on throughout the last few years, then add in the fact they increased the price of the game for next-gen while stripping out basic fundamentals of basketball (off-ball contact and double teams were completely removed) and doing nothing to fix legacy issues in gameplay AND MyLEAGUE/MyNBA, and you can see why I'm a little annoyed.

I'll admit Czar is getting the brunt of this backlash because he is the face of "sim nation" and that's a bit unfair to him. So if it makes anyone feel better, just interpret my anger as "SAVE US CZAR, YOU'RE OUR ONLY HOPE".

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

Him pinning the tweet means it's not just a contextual statement that only applied at the moment he posted it. Why point out that sim gamers "complain the most and spend the least" if you're not trying to minimize the voice of those bringing up the issues? I've been a huge fan of Czar for years and always gave him my respect, but when you come out with a statement like that I think it's fair to call it into question.



Couple that sentiment with the STEEP downward slope offline-gameplay has been on throughout the last few years, then add in the fact they increased the price of the game for next-gen while stripping out basic fundamentals of basketball (off-ball contact and double teams were completely removed) and doing nothing to fix legacy issues in gameplay AND MyLEAGUE/MyNBA, and you can see why I'm a little annoyed.



I'll admit Czar is getting the brunt of this backlash because he is the face of "sim nation" and that's a bit unfair to him. So if it makes anyone feel better, just interpret my anger as "SAVE US CZAR, YOU'RE OUR ONLY HOPE".

Rudy said it best.

I'm just going to assume you're willfully ignoring context because your upset about the subject at hand and I'll move on...so the focus on the thread can go back on defense....but just for anyone looking through this thread....Czar knows about the issue, and no, his response wasn't that tweet. I'll say one thing, if I was him and wanted to eventually chime in here...I sure wouldn't now, lol







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