Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

[EccentricMeat]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

U used the word broken 3-4 times...... there’s absolutely no fixing that bro, if that’s your honest assessment of the state of 2k (it’s wrong) but that’s neither here nor there........ Furthermore u misquoted me twice now, I simply said if it’s broken and u think it’s a bad game (seems u do since u say it’s broken) then why invest so much of your time into it? If a car is a piece of junk I would get rid of it...... in theory this is no different


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It's incredibly simple: I try to make the game better even when things are broken beyond repair. Just because it can't be perfectly fixed doesn't mean it's not worth improving. So lets stop with this back and forth here and move on

Anyway, I think I actually found the specific cause of the issue with the hedge defender standing and watching: It's the "Stay Attached" Defensive Setting. By switching to the CPU team and setting "Stay Attached - No" for both hedge defense settings, I'm no longer seeing the hedge defender stand around. This is with default rosters and default HOF sliders, no tweaks to anything (including 0 tweaks to the Coach Sliders or to the Speed w/ Ball attribute) except for the Stay Attached defensive setting.

My other tweaks further improve the defense and movement, but are not required to fix the hedge defender. Just make sure to switch Stay Attached to No. You can tweak other defense settings here if you'd like as well, feel free.

[bls]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

Checking out this video Czar posted about a month ago with him using the Timberwolves vs the Blazers. Help defense looked much better in this video. Kinda strange its the way it is now.

https://youtu.be/Jn2BIMtaVn4

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[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

It's incredibly simple: I try to make the game better even when things are broken beyond repair. Just because it can't be perfectly fixed doesn't mean it's not worth improving. So lets stop with this back and forth here and move on

Anyway, I think I actually found the specific cause of the issue with the hedge defender standing and watching: It's the "Stay Attached" Defensive Setting. By switching to the CPU team and setting "Stay Attached - No" for both hedge defense settings, I'm no longer seeing the hedge defender stand around. This is with default rosters and default HOF sliders, no tweaks to anything (including 0 tweaks to the Coach Sliders or to the Speed w/ Ball attribute) except for the Stay Attached defensive setting.

My other tweaks further improve the defense and movement, but are not required to fix the hedge defender. Just make sure to switch Stay Attached to No. You can tweak other defense settings here if you'd like as well, feel free.

haha. How did we not see this?

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

Checking out this video Czar posted about a month ago with him using the Timberwolves vs the Blazers. Help defense looked much better in this video. Kinda strange its the way it is now.

https://youtu.be/Jn2BIMtaVn4

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It hasn't changed since this. This is similar to how my games look on HOF default.

In fact, this is before the CPU would wig out on screen flips.

Czars basically just playing slow, within the flow of the game. and not necessarily trying to exploit what the CPU can't cover.

Not that anyone here may be doing that, but I feel like for some once you figure out something may off, you go down the rabbit hole of over-adjusting, and worrying about what the CPU is doing.

I know you play online...the pressure someone leaning on turbo all game puts on the defense is a different story, lol

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[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

Great point 24th.

I rarely turbo off picks anyway. PLaying with the Mavs a lot, I like to come off slowly, use angles to draw help and kick to corners and shooters. In these circumstances, the help D is fine.

[bls]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

It hasn't changed since this. This is similar to how my games look on HOF default.

In fact, this is before the CPU would wig out on screen flips.

Czars basically just playing slow, within the flow of the game. and not necessarily trying to exploit what the CPU can't cover.

Not that anyone here may be doing that, but I feel like for some once you figure out something may off, you go down the rabbit hole of over-adjusting, and worrying about what the CPU is doing.

I know you play online...the pressure someone leaning on turbo all game puts on the defense is a different story, lol

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True, could also be a difficulty thing as well. I just noticed a much better coverage in the pick n roll defense in this video.

Online the hedge defender never reacts. They just sit their and let the ball handler go straight to the rack. No reach, dive no nothing.

Your probably correct though.

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[rudyjuly2]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

I’ve messed with sliders and coach settings. I’ve read all the advice here. There is no fix for the hedge defender stupidity. It needs to be fixed by Czar and 2K. I don’t understand why I never see drop coverage? Why do they stay flat footed and not react to drives or turbo? Please fix this Czar.

The defensive rotations are not NBA quality and I can appreciate how incredibly difficult that must be. But it shouldn’t be that hard to fix the hedge defender where they are mindless zombies half the time. If that means giving up a lot more mid range and 3s so be it. Right now it feels cheap to use PNR and that is an absolute staple in the NBA.

I think the sliders overall have been nerfed imo. Would be great if they added some PNR tendencies to them though.

[Vedreanu]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

The last couple paragraphs were complete hyperbole and false...... Czar never said they care more about any one segment of the 2K community he just said Sim gamers are hardest to please with expensive requests to be implemented and spend the least on the game (VC)...however your last paragraph was on to something....... a lotta u guys have way to much animosity towards video game makers that’s it’s almost unhealthy, maybe doing as the OP of this thread did and finding other hobbies would do your mental health some good ����*♂️

I will make a transcript so everyone can read what he actually said...


btw, its not animosity and you know it well. Here you are just trolling.

We have very legitimate objections to the quality of the product we payed for. Period.

The product is nowhere near being finnished, go figure how the brand would end after realeasing such a product in a COMPETITIVE market, unlike this one.

We are customers and have the right to be unsatisfied and in this iterration we have all the reasons for it.

So if you dont like it, if you can enjoy such a half-product, I am sorry but we cant. We want them to make it better.

And your trolling wont do much good in that effort.

[strosdood]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

I will make a transcript so everyone can read what he actually said...


btw, its not animosity and you know it well. Here you are just trolling.

We have very legitimate objections to the quality of the product we payed for. Period.

The product is nowhere near being finnished, go figure how the brand would end after realeasing such a product in a COMPETITIVE market, unlike this one.

We are customers and have the right to be unsatisfied and in this iterration we have all the reasons for it.

So if you dont like it, if you can enjoy such a half-product, I am sorry but we cant. We want them to make it better.

And your trolling wont do much good in that effort.

If anyone was trolling it was you...... you made a post making Czar out to be compliant with issues like he didn’t care.......


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[Vedreanu]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

If anyone was trolling it was you...... you made a post making Czar out to be compliant with issues like he didn’t care.......


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you obviously didnt understood what I have written.
read it again

[Vedreanu]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

Oh, and btw, we shouldnt be hoping for much improvement -Da Czar has said in his last video 2k takes more emphasis on what casual, arcade-feeling-seeking players want. Bcs they make more $$$ than us.

here it is:

https://youtu.be/-FxMBAzIHK4?t=3316

he didnt use that wording ofcourse, but the point is here

also he talked about this in several other instances during the stream


"Everytime we really tried to make this game supersim [...] people thought... they rejected. They want to be able to dribble 37 times without getting tired [...] They started this hashtag #cancel2k. We tried, man! Its getting rejected!"

[strosdood]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

here it is:

https://youtu.be/-FxMBAzIHK4?t=3316

he didnt use that wording ofcourse, but the point is here

also he talked about this in several other instances during the stream


"Everytime we really tried to make this game supersim [...] people thought... they rejected. They want to be able to dribble 37 times without getting tired [...] They started this hashtag #cancel2k. We tried, man! Its getting rejected!"

He’s talking about REC and Pro-Am and when playing with others online.......Offline MyNBA is a whole different game, you have to be mindful to not abuse things because at the end of the day it’s still a video game....... with adjustments to coach settings for the cpu and some slider tweaks I’m having a blast since patch 3


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[EccentricMeat]

Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

here it is:

https://youtu.be/-FxMBAzIHK4?t=3316

he didnt use that wording ofcourse, but the point is here

also he talked about this in several other instances during the stream


"Everytime we really tried to make this game supersim [...] people thought... they rejected. They want to be able to dribble 37 times without getting tired [...] They started this hashtag #cancel2k. We tried, man! Its getting rejected!"

This just further enforces what I’ve been saying for years: 2K needs to split the gameplay into two modes: “Sim” and “Competitive”. These two modes will have different code so that the online modes can be set to “Competitive” and that version of gameplay can be tweaked without affecting the offline “Sim” gameplay.

“Sim” can have realistic basketball without the dribble and pace abuse, dunk in traffic BS, realistic amount of fouls, inaccurate passes and bad catches, etc.

“Competitive” can give that over the top arcade gameplay the online Park players seem to like, without bogging them down with realism and fouls and strategy and physics.

When Twitter and YouTube complain that their players aren’t fast enough or can’t dunk on 3 defenders enough, they can send out a tuner to the “Competitive” mode without affecting “Sim”. When sim players say they need more fouls and more inaccurate passes and better defensive AI, they can tune that gameplay without scaring away the Mountain Dew + Dorito online crowd.

Please 2K. You can’t keep trying to have one version of gameplay appease two differing groups with opposing views on how the game should play. You just end up putting out something in the middle that doesn’t make either group happy.

I’ve messed with sliders and coach settings. I’ve read all the advice here. There is no fix for the hedge defender stupidity. It needs to be fixed by Czar and 2K. I don’t understand why I never see drop coverage? Why do they stay flat footed and not react to drives or turbo? Please fix this Czar.



The defensive rotations are not NBA quality and I can appreciate how incredibly difficult that must be. But it shouldn’t be that hard to fix the hedge defender where they are mindless zombies half the time. If that means giving up a lot more mid range and 3s so be it. Right now it feels cheap to use PNR and that is an absolute staple in the NBA.



I think the sliders overall have been nerfed imo. Would be great if they added some PNR tendencies to them though.

Set Stay Attached to No for the CPU team and the defender will react. Tweak the sliders and he will react better. Increase the movement speed for slow players and they’ll more quickly be able to get into position.

If you want the defender to always drop, go into the defense settings for the CPU and set the hedge defense settings to No Hedge. If you want to let the game decide then leave it on auto.

The problem with the defense right now is the “automatic adjustments” by the CPU. They simply won’t properly adjust to stop what you’re doing. The AI should know to drop immediately whenever a player like Ben Simmons runs the PnR. He can’t shoot but is fast and a great passer, so in what world is the default response to stand and watch at the elbow? We shouldn’t have to manually adjust the CPU defensive settings every game, but until they fix the AI that’s what we have to do.

[Vedreanu]

He’s talking about REC and Pro-Am and when playing with others online.......Offline MyNBA is a whole different game, you have to be mindful to not abuse things because at the end of the day it’s still a video game....... with adjustments to coach settings for the cpu and some slider tweaks I’m having a blast since patch 3

then share the settings! Lets see what we have been missing last couple of months. Enlighten us, please!


And I dont understand how can offline be so much different than online? You think they build different engine for different modes? I dont think so. Especially after witnessing passing fumbles being a non-existant thing in this new iteration. And thats only an example.

[rudyjuly2]

Re: Evidence why next gen pick and roll and help defense needs lots of work still

Set Stay Attached to No for the CPU team and the defender will react. Tweak the sliders and he will react better. Increase the movement speed for slow players and they’ll more quickly be able to get into position.

If you want the defender to always drop, go into the defense settings for the CPU and set the hedge defense settings to No Hedge. If you want to let the game decide then leave it on auto.

The problem with the defense right now is the “automatic adjustments” by the CPU. They simply won’t properly adjust to stop what you’re doing. The AI should know to drop immediately whenever a player like Ben Simmons runs the PnR. He can’t shoot but is fast and a great passer, so in what world is the default response to stand and watch at the elbow? We shouldn’t have to manually adjust the CPU defensive settings every game, but until they fix the AI that’s what we have to do.

This stuff doesn’t work. It’s still crap. I went into the cpu team and adjusted gameplan and you can still abuse PNR. I have tried tons of slider settings. You can preach about sliders and setting all day long but please stop preaching about them to me. This aspect of the game is broken. If you disagree then fine but I’m done debating sliders and settings. The only solution to this mess is 2K patching the hedge man. The big AI is terrible.