I'm no pro basketball player, but don't you need strength for paint defense/rebound?

[BQ32]

Re: I'm no pro basketball player, but don't you need strength for paint defense/rebou

LMAO, you know the dudes on here defending the fact that you don't need interior D and strength to play D and rebounding are dudes trying to justify their pf demigod builds on next gen. Here I will admit it, I built one of those without interior D and strength because if I didn't I would be at a huge competitive disadvantage. But cmon man, unless you are 7 with a 7'6 wing span you obviously need strength to be a good defender and rebounder. And even at that, look at Durant with those measurables is actually a below average rebounder for someone his size playing that many minutes and rarely guards good post players and bigs.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: I'm no pro basketball player, but don't you need strength for paint defense/rebou

What are you guys attributes?

Maybe it's because I'm 7'2, but these 6'7 centers never outrebound or lockdown my glass lock, and my strength is in the low 80's. I love when I see them as my match-up. It's an easy 20/20. Only issue is containing them on the other side. I also have on worm so half of these 0/low strength guys can't even hold a box out because I trigger that cheesy (I admit it) switch positions animation.

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[Real2KInsider]

Re: I'm no pro basketball player, but don't you need strength for paint defense/rebou

Dude held his own 1 vs 1 being backed down by shaq in the post...

That requires strength regardless of what you want want to call it.

When we say "held his own", what we really mean to say is "gave up 27/11/4 on 64% shooting to Shaq in a playoff series. Doing that on a handful of possessions in a 4-game series (The 3-headed Monster still saw the bulk of the time on Shaq) is not the same as doing it consistently over the course of an 82-game season.

(And anyway, I spent the bulk of my post discussing rebounding).

I usually reference this video when discussing Harden's post defense. The same logic w/ Rodman applies.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZnZVMLqDYUA" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Rodman wasn't running around w/ the equivalent of 90+ Strength in his era, just like Harden isn't.

LMAO, you know the dudes on here defending the fact that you don't need interior D and strength to play D and rebounding are dudes trying to justify their pf demigod builds on next gen.

I don't play those game modes, but go off.

[tru11]

Re: I'm no pro basketball player, but don't you need strength for paint defense/rebou

When we say "held his own", what we really mean to say is "gave up 27/11/4 on 64% shooting to Shaq in a playoff series. Doing that on a handful of possessions in a 4-game series (The 3-headed Monster still saw the bulk of the time on Shaq) is not the same as doing it consistently over the course of an 82-game season.

(And anyway, I spent the bulk of my post discussing rebounding).

I usually reference this video when discussing Harden's post defense. The same logic w/ Rodman applies.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZnZVMLqDYUA" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Rodman wasn't running around w/ the equivalent of 90+ Strength in his era, just like Harden isn't.



I don't play those game modes, but go off.

Who said 90+ strength?




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[Real2KInsider]

Re: I'm no pro basketball player, but don't you need strength for paint defense/rebou

Who said 90+ strength?

So you concede that elite strength is not required for elite rebounding/post defense?

(Otherwise, what was the point of disputing anything I said in my OP?)

[tru11]

Re: I'm no pro basketball player, but don't you need strength for paint defense/rebou

So you concede that elite strength is not required for elite rebounding/post defense?

(Otherwise, what was the point of disputing anything I said in my OP?)

When did i use the word elite?

Why would i concede to stuff you are making up [emoji38]


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[Real2KInsider]

Re: I'm no pro basketball player, but don't you need strength for paint defense/rebou

When did i use the word elite?

Why would i concede to stuff you are making up

You should clarify your comment then:

Dude held his own 1 vs 1 being backed down by shaq in the post...

That requires strength regardless of what you want want to call it.

[tru11]

Re: I'm no pro basketball player, but don't you need strength for paint defense/rebou

You should clarify your comment then:

Clarify what?

Requires strength means requires strength.






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[Real2KInsider]

Re: I'm no pro basketball player, but don't you need strength for paint defense/rebou

Clarify what?

Requires strength means requires strength.

Glad we've got that settled.

25 Strength = Has Strength

[tru11]

I'm no pro basketball player, but don't you need strength for paint defense/rebound?

Glad we've got that settled.



25 Strength = Has Strength

Ok...

Water is wet?

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[ILLSmak]

Re: I'm no pro basketball player, but don't you need strength for paint defense/rebou

If they had functional str like leverage moving truck/back down punisher str and just immovable object str it'd be better. Sabonis was a 95 str, but I think Rodman was 90 functional. He could become an immovable object. I know from being a small dude who balls n some horsing w friends. Both forms of strength matter. When I was a teen facing a 40 yr old man I couldn't bang w him but every other time. I can bang w bigs. Obviously they are gonna kill me in the end but there is, in the same way you rebound, a level of just positioning your body while moving that makes u much stronger. Remember there is more than just str u gotta dribble, look to score etc. Same w reb gotta be able to be mobile and jump. That's why Rodman is Def a 90 str. So is Ben Wallace and he's way bigger and got rag dolled by Shaq too. Imagine like gallo on Shaq and you'll realize how strong Rodman was. But it's not the same as Steven Adams.



-Smak

[Real2KInsider]

Re: I'm no pro basketball player, but don't you need strength for paint defense/rebou

If they had functional str like leverage moving truck/back down punisher str and just immovable object str it'd be better. Sabonis was a 95 str, but I think Rodman was 90 functional.

I mean, I think there is definitely some nostalgia goggles going on here with Rodman. He wasn't a banger. That just wasn't his game. People are just overly-fixated on one playoff series that we watched as kids.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/XBoVDIvOrfI" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

There is nothing here that suggests he was "functionally 90 Strength" in terms of application.

The entire discussion boils down to a faulty premise. We might as well be saying "Kobe was functionally 90 strength because don't you need Strength to be a good post player"? Obviously that is not the case given the vast physical differences between a Michael Jordan and a Shaquille O'Neal. Why would defense be any different?

Post Defense & Rebounding are skills, Strength is part of athletic ability. High strength might increase effectiveness in an area (just as high Vertical or Speed might), but there is no direct correlation.

Rodman was an incredible rebounder because he was everywhere on the court, not because he was bullying people out of the way. He was a good defensive player because he knew how to use his leverage, had great hands for poking the ball away, reaction time, didn't bite on pump fakes, etc.

Imagine like gallo on Shaq and you'll realize how strong Rodman was.

The key distinction here is Rodman is one of the All-Time great defensive players and the GOAT rebounder (elite ratings/badges), whereas Gallinari is decidedly below average in these areas (50s/60s ratings). By the same coin, Gallinari takes contact better on offense - they are simply applying it in different ways based on their skill sets. (They are also playing in eras where different skills are being featured).

(The same people fixated on Rodman banging w/ Shaq are often going to be the same ones who'd think LeBron at 6'9" / 250 would be too soft for the 90s. If Rodman was functionally a 90, what's LeBron, 120? What's Shaq, 200?)

[ksuttonjr76]

Re: I'm no pro basketball player, but don't you need strength for paint defense/rebou

I mean, I think there is definitely some nostalgia goggles going on here with Rodman. He wasn't a banger. That just wasn't his game. People are just overly-fixated on one playoff series that we watched as kids.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/XBoVDIvOrfI" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

There is nothing here that suggests he was "functionally 90 Strength" in terms of application.

The entire discussion boils down to a faulty premise. We might as well be saying "Kobe was functionally 90 strength because don't you need Strength to be a good post player"? Obviously that is not the case given the vast physical differences between a Michael Jordan and a Shaquille O'Neal. Why would defense be any different?

Post Defense & Rebounding are skills, Strength is part of athletic ability. High strength might increase effectiveness in an area (just as high Vertical or Speed might), but there is no direct correlation.

Rodman was an incredible rebounder because he was everywhere on the court, not because he was bullying people out of the way. He was a good defensive player because he knew how to use his leverage, had great hands for poking the ball away, reaction time, didn't bite on pump fakes, etc.




The key distinction here is Rodman is one of the All-Time great defensive players and the GOAT rebounder (elite ratings/badges), whereas Gallinari is decidedly below average in these areas (50s/60s ratings). By the same coin, Gallinari takes contact better on offense - they are simply applying it in different ways based on their skill sets. (They are also playing in eras where different skills are being featured).

(The same people fixated on Rodman banging w/ Shaq are often going to be the same ones who'd think LeBron at 6'9" / 250 would be too soft for the 90s. If Rodman was functionally a 90, what's LeBron, 120? What's Shaq, 200?)

I think you two are arguing the same thing.

I don't think anyone is arguing that Rodman had elite strength. Personally, I was arguing against the concept that you can be an elite defender or rebounder with zero strength (aka 25 strength) in the game, then people threw Rodman out as an example like dude was built like Reggie Miller, but was still snatching down boards.

Yes, knowing how to position yourself for a rebound is very important, but strength does play some significance as well. As I stated before, Basketball IQ can overcome some physical shortcomings, but it can't replace its total absence.

I played in the post and by all definitions as a undersized PF/C. I was good at I what I did, but I still needed a good amount of physical strength to prevent bigger players from bullying me in the paint and to absorb physical contact to prevent early game fatigue.

I'm just not understanding why people are treating the paint like it's a contactless aspect of basketball. For all we know, Rodman could have been stronger than he looked. I know I was.

[Real2KInsider]

Re: I'm no pro basketball player, but don't you need strength for paint defense/rebou

I think you two are arguing the same thing.

Yeah, I'm not really arguing so much as touching on various points.

I don't think anyone is arguing that Rodman had elite strength. Personally, I was arguing against the concept that you can be an elite defender or rebounder with zero strength (aka 25 strength) in the game, then people threw Rodman out as an example like dude was built like Reggie Miller, but was still snatching down boards.

Well it's much the same discussion as something I touched on elsewhere:

78/PF (-1) Daniel Theis: Stretch Four (from 3-Level Scorer)
is this some kind of Joke? when I think of Daniel theis i think Of him as a mobile, high energy defender that is somewhat capable of hitting shots. i dont think of him as a scorer, nor do i think of him as stretch for (doesnt He Play the 5?)

Those archetypes largely only mean he has 80+ in the applicable shot ratings. Shot ratings aren't indicative of scoring ability.

It isn't shooting ratings that separate Stephen Curry and Kyle Korver as players. If a player has 99 Close/Mid/3pt but only 25 Ball Control and 25 Speed, how much are they really going to score? It's much the same here.

Strength has an IMPACT on defense/rebounding, but it isn't the primary factor in whether a player is good or not. There's a reason why we moved away from Reggie Evans & Danny Fortson types, and why linebackers don't make good basketball players.

Yes, knowing how to position yourself for a rebound is very important, but strength does play some significance as well.

Strength has about as much to do with rebounding as "Vertical", it largely only matters for "boxing out" & holding position prior to the rebound attempt. Strength has has nothing to do with one's ability to anticipate & react to the ball going off the rim. LaMelo Ball, Rajon Rondo, Jemerrio Jones, there are plenty of examples throughout history, and perhaps more importantly, there are just as many players with high strength levels that AREN'T able to rebound.

Anyone that would suggest "strength" as a primary reason for Dennis Rodman's rebounding/defensive prowess relative to say, Brook Lopez just hasn't given much thought to the subject.

As I stated before, Basketball IQ can overcome some physical shortcomings, but it can't replace its total absence.

It very clearly can overcome quite a bit. Rodman was a freak of nature, there was no other player like him in NBA history, then or since (though there have been TONS of players with his build). Also, for all that we make of Shaq having 100 pounds on everyone, it ain't like he shot 100% from the field. Players routinely make up size/strength differentials through skill.

I played in the post and by all definitions as a undersized PF/C. I was good at I what I did, but I still needed a good amount of physical strength to prevent bigger players from bullying me in the paint and to absorb physical contact to prevent early game fatigue.

Since everyone is giving their first-hand experience: I was Dennis Rodman on the court. All 5'8" / 120 of me (or whatever I was in the 7th grade). I couldn't shoot to save my life so I was always giving 120% on the court. There was never a game where I wasn't the best rebounder on the floor. I'm not going to pretend I was playing at or against a high level (far from it), but that's not the point. At a comparable skill level, I was able to make up for physical differentials by having a better nose for the ball. Better strength would have enhanced my effectiveness, but it wasn't the foundation of it.

[tru11]

I'm no pro basketball player, but don't you need strength for paint defense/rebound?

Nobody suggested that strength was the primary reason that made rodman who he was.

People argued that he had strength.

Last time in checked 2K agreed with that since he has an 86 rating on all his builds except the 88-89 pistons where he had 75.

The man was pretty strong and his ratings fall in line with that notion.



NG meta builds dont have that strength yet can do what he did which is why OP made this thread.




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