Bringing the face up game back to 2K

[The 24th Letter]

A minor dive into the PC realm has me playing one of my favorite 2K’s again, 2K14. It has also reminded me of how much I miss the face up game in 2K.

These are two simple plays that you’d be hard pressed to see in 2K22, With a big red heavy contested/100% appearing on the top of the screen.

https://streamable.com/ywa1pi

Melo’s bite on that second move was exaggerated, but that brings me to my first point- the A.I not knowing your moves and auto contesting, even on higher difficulties. It makes plays feel a lot more organic, and brings a read and react element to the game.

Second, “Area effect” badges. Not to go too far down the rabbit hole, but Joel hitting that shot on Bam in 2K22 is even more unlikely because Bam is decked out with so many defensive badges that go into effect with just him standing there.

What do you guys think?

[jeebs9]

Re: Bringing the face up game back to 2K

A minor dive into the PC realm has me playing one of my favorite 2K’s again, 2K14. It has also reminded me of how much I miss the face up game in 2K.

These are two simple plays that you’d be hard pressed to see in 2K22, With a big red heavy contested/100% appearing on the top of the screen.

https://streamable.com/ywa1pi

Melo’s bite on that second move was exaggerated, but that brings me to my first point- the A.I not knowing your moves and auto contesting, even on higher difficulties. It makes plays feel a lot more organic, and brings a read and react element to the game.

Second, “Area effect” badges. Not to go too far down the rabbit hole, but Joel hitting that shot on Bam in 2K22 is even more unlikely because Bam is decked out with so many defensive badges that go into effect with just him standing there.

What do you guys think?

You know me I've been complaining about this for years. The pretext of having to do a move first sucks. But also you can't do this with Embiid because they dropped his mid ranging after a month down into the low 80's. Then magically when he was MVP he got a little bump. Even Karl Malone mid ranges in the mid range.

The face up game is slow. CPU like you said because can read you like a book. Playing humans can be fun at times. But again it's so slow. These are moves you can score on. But again it's so slow. Only works vs a human. https://twitter.com/jeebs9/status/14...zUUzCZfPw&s=19 the only reason the above works is because it's a height mismatch. Besides that vs anyone else that's a miss.

100% agree with you

https://twitter.com/Klay_Says/status/1325851554553933826?t=P9lasTk6I05r-DiSIPoedA&s=19

We can't do the above.

[Cowboyfan_19]

Re: Bringing the face up game back to 2K

Exactly why it's so difficult to score with Dirk thr way you're SUPPOSED to score with him in recent years. I can still post spin & drop step on mis matches & still knock down catch & shoot jumpers all day with him, but his true strengths aren't properly reflected. Played over 300 PNO games, & not one time have I felt comfortable face up shooting with Dirk or post fading.

Same thing with Kareem. I've never played one guy that has dominated with the sky hook, just drop step or spin animations that completely clear out the defender.

[ksuttonjr76]

Re: Bringing the face up game back to 2K

Exactly why it's so difficult to score with Dirk thr way you're SUPPOSED to score with him in recent years. I can still post spin & drop step on mis matches & still knock down catch & shoot jumpers all day with him, but his true strengths aren't properly reflected. Played over 300 PNO games, & not one time have I felt comfortable face up shooting with Dirk or post fading.

Same thing with Kareem. I've never played one guy that has dominated with the sky hook, just drop step or spin animations that completely clear out the defender.

What? I have said before that Kareem is a damn cheat code and the sky hook is a guaranteed 2 points. I haven't played PNO much in the past two years, but I always enjoyed playing with the Kareem-led Bucks team.

[ksuttonjr76]

Re: Bringing the face up game back to 2K

A minor dive into the PC realm has me playing one of my favorite 2K’s again, 2K14. It has also reminded me of how much I miss the face up game in 2K.

These are two simple plays that you’d be hard pressed to see in 2K22, With a big red heavy contested/100% appearing on the top of the screen.

https://streamable.com/ywa1pi

Melo’s bite on that second move was exaggerated, but that brings me to my first point- the A.I not knowing your moves and auto contesting, even on higher difficulties. It makes plays feel a lot more organic, and brings a read and react element to the game.

Second, “Area effect” badges. Not to go too far down the rabbit hole, but Joel hitting that shot on Bam in 2K22 is even more unlikely because Bam is decked out with so many defensive badges that go into effect with just him standing there.

What do you guys think?

Always an inspiration to the MyCareer bigs of the game. God, I miss using my NBA 2K20 Interior Force Center so much. Great times.

[jeebs9]

Re: Bringing the face up game back to 2K

OMG don't get me started on Dirk!!! Your can't do anything Dirk use to do. At this point he's just a pick and pop player. Like you said that was the beauty of Dirk.

https://twitter.com/DaAnsahonSports/status/1210694410440265729?t=XYc97mRC54FCslBx3yulug&s=19

Spoiler

I like the spin moves this year. Just to give credit. You really can throw a defender off balance.

https://twitter.com/jeebs9/status/1521236763037024257?t=LTfUil8q-3Vjzf4oKpZXeQ&s=19

It looks like they build out the post game for dribblers. Most post players need like 2-3 moves. That first move is the jab.

https://twitter.com/jeebs9/status/1494804666026270721?t=rNUGHPwy4bNeLOchnRM7rA&s=19

But you really can't build off it. It's so stupid. CPU defenders contest everything.

This is just sauce. But it's just toooooo much in my opinion. Some of these guys should scare the living **** out of the defense.

https://twitter.com/JerseyMade93/status/1519763436023992320?t=jK9eN1S1OgjCZo0WCvDZLg&s=19

Sorry I have a lot to say on the subject. It's the face up jumper that is gone.

This is by far the best med range jumper I could execute all cycle long (I thought I was controlling Dirk LMAO). It just seems like too much dribbling in my opinion.

https://twitter.com/jeebs9/status/15...r_irz8SkQ&s=19

[howardphillips214]

Re: Bringing the face up game back to 2K

Theoretically with an 80 midrange you should be able to turn around and fade from anywhere outside 15 feet but you need a running start and difficult ****s on a high level usually. Standing jumpers are horribly slow from midrange. And you're never gonna get a post hopstep shot to go from midrange without several post badges and high post rating.

So its like the game can't differentiate "post fade" outside 15 feet between a post shot and a midrange jumper.

To me, if I can hit a midrange it shouldn't matter what conditions those are under unless we're talking about the contest. A "pull up" jumper is not so much different than a standing shot in the modern NBA. While Rip Hamilton and Ray Allen would take a lot of leaning midrange there was a distinct difference between their catch and shoot usage behind the 3. Ray was a much more natural catch and shoot from distance than Rip, both used the midrange better than most from that era. I don't think in their mind there's much difference between "off the dribble" or standing from 18 feet and that needs to be reflected in the game.

Having 2 different characters with Blinders, Difficult Shots, and relatively the same rating, the difference between Gold and HOF for those badges is night and day. Circus 3s pops up on the deeper leaning 2s which is useful but taking a long range 2 right inside the line standing or leaning is also a huge difference.

With HOF catch and Shoot, Hot Zone Hunter and an 80 rating if the defender isn't close it's automatic from 3. Leaning with Circus 3s its about accurate, you'll make about a 3rd if not contested. I play real player % tho so if you can time those shots with the meter I've seen players destroy in the park on leaning fadeaway 3s.

Leaning 2s are extremely useful even with a lesser ball handle. I have a PF for Park with Quick Step Gold and if I hit ONE catch and shoot 3 I can go either direction from the wing and get an uncontested long-range 2 almost every time. If I'm the 2 on the park I'm quick enough to get to my spots easily and if I'm the 3 on the park, I'm usually a catch and shoot guy because they like to sit in the paint.

The problem is spacing. It's hard to get post shots down low because everyone double teams and the moves are slow. Post fades in the midrange SHOULD be more viable but you're forced into standing or off the dribble 2s.

There's more space in the midrange than anywhere on the court. Without the threat of the 3 it's impossible to get to your spots unless you're a high dribble character. The kids online think it's all about 3s but if you can score both at a high clip there truly is no defense against it. It quite literally GIVES you paint scores if you're legal from distance.

If more bigs could space from midrangr even it would open the court tremendously.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Bringing the face up game back to 2K

RE: Dirk

One thing about 22 I like is that you can take advantage of height differences

I’ve done a bit of work with Dirk-

https://streamable.com/1wesyj

That’s moreso creating space though, like a perimeter player. If a defender of equal height a lot of those don’t get off cleanly

Jeebs, This is about face ups but it all kind of falls under the same umbrella

Like this big on big mini fade here-

https://streamable.com/k6flow

Even if it’s Javale, or a lower rated defender of the same height, that’s extremely hard to hit in 2K22

[zten11]

Re: Bringing the face up game back to 2K

I feel like you can rarely accomplish this anymore unless you are constantly handling the ball with your big man and thus forcing shots in a fast-paced manner.

[jkits]

Re: Bringing the face up game back to 2K

If you're playing my park, my career or any mode that forces you to plays with default unchangeable sliders, it results in an unrealistic game of basketball.

2K has relied on the badges more than the attributes. I understand the separation of elite players from the latter, but i think it punishes other players that a decent/ middle of the road style of game.

I'm with you though, I love the face-up game, the mid-range jumper game and just all around feeling like you can pull up from anywhere, at any time, with anyone. And at least have a possibility of the shots going in. Unfortunately without gold or hof blinders/deadeye etc, a contest is almost an automatic miss in this game.

[ILLSmak]

Re: Bringing the face up game back to 2K

A minor dive into the PC realm has me playing one of my favorite 2K’s again, 2K14. It has also reminded me of how much I miss the face up game in 2K.

These are two simple plays that you’d be hard pressed to see in 2K22, With a big red heavy contested/100% appearing on the top of the screen.

https://streamable.com/ywa1pi

Melo’s bite on that second move was exaggerated, but that brings me to my first point- the A.I not knowing your moves and auto contesting, even on higher difficulties. It makes plays feel a lot more organic, and brings a read and react element to the game.

Second, “Area effect” badges. Not to go too far down the rabbit hole, but Joel hitting that shot on Bam in 2K22 is even more unlikely because Bam is decked out with so many defensive badges that go into effect with just him standing there.

What do you guys think?

Area Effect in general. The thing is that even tho it's not a contest... (all of this is my opinion cuz I mean I play but I can't reliably say HOW I play altogether), if you just hold aggressive defense and run into people, you get pretty good results. In fact, I would like to see a lot more fouls on said plays because you can really lead people around once a contact animation starts. They should have rolls for each extra phase of the contact, basing on situation, and determine foul calls, allow for flopping, too.



That's one thing. Cuz I mean I've seen people get faced many times even on 3s if they are just not even touching their controller. It's just an auto contest.



I like open shots being easy, but if they made pull up in your face shots even somewhat make-able like 25% of the time, it would be nice. There is a ton of bumping that you can do with a guy without great defensive badges ( and people w/ great defensive badges it doesn't even matter what you do in some situations, but they affect others less) and the bumping is necessary to keep it realistic, but there needs to be like a foul or a chance to double clutch, something, on these 'hard bump' inside animations. As for hard contest midrange animations, 2k doesn't handle the vertical (as in sphere of the game) part so well, probably why blocks are so stupid. But the idea of actually rising up over someone is just not in 2k's playbook, which is weird cuz they have shed animations inside, blowby, long cross, ankle breakers, but not any real I pressed the button before you pressed jump "rise up" animation that turns into a make-able shot. Could be a great addition.


-Smak

[zten11]

Re: Bringing the face up game back to 2K

If you're playing my park, my career or any mode that forces you to plays with default unchangeable sliders, it results in an unrealistic game of basketball.

2K has relied on the badges more than the attributes. I understand the separation of elite players from the latter, but i think it punishes other players that a decent/ middle of the road style of game.

I'm with you though, I love the face-up game, the mid-range jumper game and just all around feeling like you can pull up from anywhere, at any time, with anyone. And at least have a possibility of the shots going in. Unfortunately without gold or hof blinders/deadeye etc, a contest is almost an automatic miss in this game.

Or maybe more slick ball-handling and outside shooting badges for big guys is necessary. I think that's what I'll do with my roster next year.

[The 24th Letter]

Re: Bringing the face up game back to 2K

Love 2K14’s contest system, even on higher difficulties

https://streamable.com/bm55n6

[simbayless]

Re: Bringing the face up game back to 2K

Love 2K14’s contest system, even on higher difficulties

https://streamable.com/bm55n6

I forgot how dope 2k14 Contest system was

I think mixing mypark and offline game play together is really hurting the offline gamer

They should separate the patches between the 2
And they also should add a contest system slider🎯 so whenever 2k patches up the Contest system like they do every year us offline gamers can go adjust the contest slider back to our liking

Contest system slider should go hand in hand with shot success

[zten11]

Re: Bringing the face up game back to 2K

This is something people need to pay a lot more attention to. Some of these badges have you thinking like what the heck does that mean?

https://nba2kw.com/nba-2k22-all-in-o...down-analysis/