NBA 2K24 - 4th Official Rating Update - 1.11.2024

[stizz]

Re: NBA 2K24 - 4th Official Rating Update - 1.11.2024

One thing to note Real2kInsider (aka Rashidi) isn’t affiliated with 2k in any way

[Real2KInsider]

Re: NBA 2K24 - 4th Official Rating Update - 1.11.2024

I see what you mean about tone, but I don’t think it’s hard to convey here. I reply to people here just about the same way I talk to people in life—with respect.

You are far from above making snide comments and taking potshots. You are not some balanced, moral paragon.

It’s not my job to tell people how to reply, but it’s also not my hobby to tell people they don’t know this, they don’t watch that, or to take the superior high ground by putting them down. Sometimes I have asked questions on OS before using Google, so I get it: sometimes you’d just like an innocent answer to an innocent question. If I see you criticizing 2K on one thread but I have a critique / question about a rating on another one, and you question my knowledge or if I watch games or look at stats or this and that, I’m like geez bruh.

The vast majority of the people I have issues with aren't asking questions. They are telling you the answer.

A few of your favorite people aren't trying to have a conversation either. Not that it's stopped your personal bias from taking sides.

So yeah, tone is a choice. I look at OS as a community, and it’s nice to see when that community is welcoming.

The funny thing is I actually work in hospitality and "tone" with guests is one of my strengths. "It's not what you say, but how you say it" is one of my adages. I absolutely don't have the same tone here as I do at work, so what changes?

My written words are stylistically much more direct & matter-of-fact compared to how I come across in other media or IRL. My fingers are much harder than my tongue. I am a sarcastic New Yorker at heart, but actually fairly light-hearted / joking which maybe comes across in my head better than it does on paper.

OS is also not a professional, welcoming atmosphere. These are the streets. My account here was created 20 years ago, so there's quite a bit of history here that perhaps manifests when I click the reply button. My delivery and approach has changed quite a bit over the last 20 years. I was significantly more emotional, combative, and took things way more personally 20 years ago, relative to now. I'm sure some people still equate me with the person whom I used to be, but I can't really control that / worry about it.

I just don’t want anyone on OS giving people advice to ignore me because I can’t put that on anyone else but me.

I am actually okay with this. I don't need anyone's validation, and my goal has never been to be liked / popular. My audience is mostly going to be the people who cut through the noise and are more interested in the Art and approach, rather than a base feeling.

(And also, contrary to what one might think, I do not enjoy being the center of attention or making things about me - I think in this instance it is important to explain my inner-workings to inform future interactions).

[jd@os]

Re: NBA 2K24 - 4th Official Rating Update - 1.11.2024

Hence me saying "...my way is different, not necessarily right." I've never claimed to be some balanced, moral paragon; the right side of my body is actually stronger than my left.

[Real2KInsider]

Re: NBA 2K24 - 4th Official Rating Update - 1.11.2024

Fair point you definitely have a far better understanding of how the actual 2k rating how's and why's.

As far as anything tied to a stat / production rate, they do a good job. Rebounds, steals, blocks, etc fall into this. They are mostly just copying data into a spreadsheet, rather than doing each player individually.

Where this does create some issues is with shot ratings, where you NEED context or else you end up with Peyton Watson's Close Shot rating 30 points higher than Aaron Gordon's (93 to 64). That unfortunately requires more time/energy/money than they're willing to invest.

And I didnt mean to call this out, I just think the way 2k does things with their ratings (e.g. rolling the dice with the athletic attributes and almost never changing them after;

Correct, 2K's biggest problem is they rarely touch anything that isn't tied to stats. They have a scale in place but then create too much differentiation between stars and role players, which creates issues years down the line when those role players develop larger roles, or when those stars fade (Dwight Howard famously had prime athleticism for his entire 30s).

It took 2.5 years for Tyrese Maxey to get a Speed boost.
Cody Martin has been a 58 Speed since he got drafted 5 years ago.
De'Anthony Melton and Patrick Beverley are separated by 10 years but both have a 76 Speed.
^Which is 1 point higher than Mo Bamba, who has had a 75 since draft night 6 years ago.
^Paul Reed has a 47 Speed.

using different upscaled advanced metrics to "overrate" roleplayers

I am not really sure what this means. Especially since by and large, it's the role players who get shafted by 2K.

quickly bumping players on the hotstreak, rarely the other way around on a long cold streak and MANY things more) is many times questionable.

Well, in general I think this is because the nature of this is players on cold streaks end up playing less as a result (or not at all), i.e. their struggles don't get an opportunity to affect their production as much. A DNP-CD doesn't show up in the box score.

2K does drop players - there is ALWAYS someone asking why someone went down 1 OVR. There just aren't a ton of examples because generally players don't fall off unless an injury is involved (which also means they are out of the lineup / not playing, leading to someone ELSE getting an opportunity and a rating boost)

This is illustrated a bit w/ my Cam Thomas analysis.

What I´m doing is doubting this procedure for that. We could go back and forth and hijack this thread for this, but first I doubt that I could reach you with my arguments but more importantly even if we write essays about Opinion A, B, C.... at the end of the day it won´t matter since 2k won´t care (about us) and they don´t do **** about it.

They actually do, believe it or not.

Last but not least, with the experience of watching Basketball for almost 30 years myself and playing ball (on a low level), I still think that having more steals&blocks then fouls/game is an anstounding accomplishment and should be seen (in the ratings). 2k thinks other way.

That's what's complicated about Blocks & Steals, is they aren't actually indicative of a good defensive player.

Rookie Mitchell Robinson
Per 36 minutes: 4.3 Blocks, 5.7 Fouls (10.0 BLK%, would be 4th All-time if qualified)

2023 Mitchell Robinson
Per 36 minutes: 2.5 Blocks, 3.6 Fouls (6.5 BLK%, 6th in NBA)

Robinson was going for everything back then (only Manute Bol has 10 BLK% seasons), leading to more fouls and wasn't able to stay on the court. Bit on a lot of fakes as most young players do. The block rate is less historic now but he has a greater defensive impact.

There is quite a bit separating someone like JaVale McGee, Shawn Bradley, etc from Hakeem Olajuwon / Dikembe Mutombo. Clint Capela is sandwiched between Ben Wallace and Patrick Ewing in career block rate. So that rating is a small fraction of the story (and why the advent of badges have been so important).

One thing to note Real2kInsider (aka Rashidi) isn’t affiliated with 2k in any way

Yet I have had some direct/indirect influence (and still do), for better or worse.

-A few of the systems they use are things I either explicitly designed (a few Tendency formulas), or loosely built upon (my Intangibles tiers, for example).

-They make a badge category, I figure out how to effectively scale it, and then they alter their own scale the following year.

-I'll make a video on how bad a player's badges are, a month later they'll update that player's badges (Blake Griffin, Julius Randle, Jordan Poole, Victor Wembanyama). I don't make any videos or any written critiques, they go three months without updating anyone.

As a general note they rely on fans to do the work for them. So the more engagement they get, the more focused/polished their rosters get. They don't actually have a pulse on the NBA (being that nobody on the team has actually worked in an NBA circle), so they don't know what's important in the moment without being pointed in the right direction.

[jd@os]

Re: NBA 2K24 - 4th Official Rating Update - 1.11.2024

You are far from above making snide comments and taking potshots. You are not some balanced, moral paragon.



The vast majority of the people I have issues with aren't asking questions. They are telling you the answer.

A few of your favorite people aren't trying to have a conversation either. Not that it's stopped your personal bias from taking sides.



The funny thing is I actually work in hospitality and "tone" with guests is one of my strengths. "It's not what you say, but how you say it" is one of my adages. I absolutely don't have the same tone here as I do at work, so what changes?

My written words are stylistically much more direct & matter-of-fact compared to how I come across in other media or IRL. My fingers are much harder than my tongue. I am a sarcastic New Yorker at heart, but actually fairly light-hearted / joking which maybe comes across in my head better than it does on paper.

OS is also not a professional, welcoming atmosphere. These are the streets. My account here was created 20 years ago, so there's quite a bit of history here that perhaps manifests when I click the reply button. My delivery and approach has changed quite a bit over the last 20 years. I was significantly more emotional, combative, and took things way more personally 20 years ago, relative to now. I'm sure some people still equate me with the person whom I used to be, but I can't really control that / worry about it.



I am actually okay with this. I don't need anyone's validation, and my goal has never been to be liked / popular. My audience is mostly going to be the people who cut through the noise and are more interested in the Art and approach, rather than a base feeling.

(And also, contrary to what one might think, I do not enjoy being the center of attention or making things about me - I think in this instance it is important to explain my inner-workings to inform future interactions).

I'm sorry you feel that OS is not a welcoming atmosphere but instead the streets. I know on the football boards, vikesfan and his team welcome roster suggestions even down to if a coach wears a visor or not. I know on the basketball boards, MJWizards welcomes suggestions on what non in-game classic team should replace an All Time team because he changes all of them in addition to already doing the in-game classic (and now Era) teams he edits. I know on the baseball boards, questions and suggestions are welcomed concerning which stadiums to download and which rebrands are recommended from the vault; those guys are a great help.

And man, the golf boards are so welcoming that even though it was not supposed to be done....I'll just say bread was raised so that one of the guys could purchase a PS5. That not only showed me just how welcoming OS really is, but also restored my faith in humanity lol.

But anyway, I am sorry you feel that way. Anyhow, best wishes to you in your hospitality job; customer service isn't always the easiest service.

[sirdez]

Re: NBA 2K24 - 4th Official Rating Update - 1.11.2024

I didn't mean to kick off a discussion as to 2kinsider's tone haha, my post was firmly tongue in cheek. You are a fantastically valuable resource and I appreciate all the effort you go to in these threads.

[Therebelyell626]

Re: NBA 2K24 - 4th Official Rating Update - 1.11.2024

I didn't mean to kick off a discussion as to 2kinsider's tone haha, my post was firmly tongue in cheek. You are a fantastically valuable resource and I appreciate all the effort you go to in these threads.

Trust me. Anyone with a backbone is not going to take “tone” on a message board personally. I was just laughing and commenting on someone else’s post because my first reaction was “why is this guy being so aggressive with me”. I didn’t take it personal and my feelings were not hurt.

I actually appreciated the information 2kinsider provided after the fact and found it to be quite insightful. Cleared up some of my confusion about how the ratings adjustments are probably decided upon. Whether associated with 2k or not it’s been a long time since I have seen someone apply statistical analysis to rating correlation that effectively in a long time

[AIRJ23]

Re: NBA 2K24 - 4th Official Rating Update - 1.11.2024

Thought Experiment! Did the 2003 8th seed have the equivalents of Kevin Durant, Devin Booker, and Bradley Beal?

(I realize this requires more thought than straight up comparing Kwame Brown to Anthony Davis and *expecting* to be taken seriously - which means this might be out of your realm of depth)

This is cute. Look at you assuming Beal, KD and Booker would be REMOTELY.. REMOTELY the same players in 2003 vs today. We’re talking lowest scoring/lowest pacing era vs highest. Hand checking vs no hand checking, etc. Beal and KD alone can barely stay healthy.

26/6/6 in 2003 for half the season is MUCH different than 26/6/6 now at the same period.

Using your own argument, now 10th seed is essentially a playoff spot. LeBron wouldn’t have made playoffs for 2 of his lakers years without play ins. Those wizards years would’ve had that same benefit.

And the rockets have been hovering around 8th seed. Do they have KD, Booker and Beal?

How about the JAZZ with a better record than those lakers with DLo. Reaves, anointed king and Anthony freaking Davis? I didn’t know Lauri Markannon was such a threat that the lakers need to make huge trades yearly to keep up.

Dejounte Murray just the other day said “nobody is playing defense in today’s soft *** league” further proving you can’t just name players who thrive under todays system and expect they’d be the same threat in 2003. Speaking of which, those incredible lakers with their “96” rated star are now recruiting Murray. The king needs more help!

[AIRJ23]

Re: NBA 2K24 - 4th Official Rating Update - 1.11.2024

Btw, LeBron stats since the last update is 22 PPG, 7 Reb and 6 AST. That’s not even factoring many lazy defensive efforts of which some were even viral moments.

Real2K, do you wanna lecture me on some secret metrics that justify that rating? I must be an “idiot” for assuming 22/7/6 is not worthy of a 96 OVR. Jordan on the wizards at the exact same age at the exact same point in the season was 26/6/6 (which adjusted for era makes it even more worthy of a high rating) and he eas in playoff seeding. Did Jordan deserve a 96? Or is there some special LeBron potion I’m missing that’s worthy of you constantly defending it.

[sirdez]

Re: NBA 2K24 - 4th Official Rating Update - 1.11.2024

Is your obsession with LeBron's rating because of MJ or something else?

[AIRJ23]

Re: NBA 2K24 - 4th Official Rating Update - 1.11.2024

Double post

[AIRJ23]

Re: NBA 2K24 - 4th Official Rating Update - 1.11.2024

Is your obsession with LeBron's rating because of MJ or something else?

I just think it’s funny how a guy who constantly rags on 2K’s devs for how they rate the game, will spend endless time defending a 22/7/6 stat line justifying a 96 rating.

Anything for the King.