Screen and Hedge Settings

[Reddcheese]

Re: Screen and Hedge Settings

I disagree wholeheartedly.

But in terms of x and o strategy, this part of the game has not worked properly since ACE was unveiled.

How long have we been asking for an option to set a defender to genuinely leave their dude alone. Yeah there’s gap/leave them but that is very hit and miss. Why can’t we have a defender who does the 2.9 tap dance and only worries about his defender once he gets within 3 steps of the rim.

Look at the shenanigans we’re having to do to establish some pretty basic strategic decisions. You need to play on superstar, but not on a full moon, and only after 4 pm, on every 2nd Friday…then you can see some basic pick and roll decision making.

This entire strategic interface needs to be torn down, thrown in the garbage and rebuilt. Only include that comes with an iron clad guarantee of working.

I found at the end of 2k24 I could do your above scenario of leaving the bad shooters alone. Definitely not the 2.9ing tap dance but that’s why I was so keen for 2k25 and jumped straight into helping make a roster. Little did I know the defence had regressed.

Lol at the hoops we have to jump through to get a guy to go over. Haha

I agree the interface needs to be built from the ground up but I worry how many more cycles that would take. Hopefully the matchup bug has brought the devs attention to the interface and something is done at the next patch.

[Baebae32]

Re: Screen and Hedge Settings

Am of the belief that a big part of this is rooted in the motion system/animations. All the different on ball systems dont seem like they are playing nice this year


But 1000% agree with the notion that the coaching interface/settings need to be redone. It feels as if it has been a while since the coaching/strategy side of the game has gotten significant love. And i dont think that is czar…just dont think he is getting the resources he needs….the extra hands were working on gravity ball lol. Kidding

[frank70]

Re: Screen and Hedge Settings

I know that DCzar is a well respected member here - and rightfully so.

But to be quite honest: the defensive side of the ball hasn't seen any progress since years. All these defensive settings are all cosmetic. On paper they are very deep - but unfortunately many of those simply don't work. Hard hedge is more soft hedge. Help defense is very rudamentary. You get (maybe) one guy who helps, but there is no rotation from the weak side. It only needs one pass and you get an open shot. No "help the helper " concept whatsoever.

We havve 2024. With KI making jumps in the last two years i really expect more from a Company that makes millions from their customers.

But the truth is: there isn't much money to be made with offline game modes. So i would assume that 2K doesn't put much ressources into it. And it shows. Cpu play is a disappointment. The rosters with insane tendencies and all those badges doesn't play anywhere near what we see on TV. And there is no progress to be seen in the last 5 or so years.

Game isn't worth the money. 2k18 isn't as deep but plays a better game of basketball imo.

[alabamarob]

Re: Screen and Hedge Settings

I disagree wholeheartedly.

But in terms of x and o strategy, this part of the game has not worked properly since ACE was unveiled.

How long have we been asking for an option to set a defender to genuinely leave their dude alone. Yeah there’s gap/leave them but that is very hit and miss. Why can’t we have a defender who does the 2.9 tap dance and only worries about his defender once he gets within 3 steps of the rim.

Look at the shenanigans we’re having to do to establish some pretty basic strategic decisions. You need to play on superstar, but not on a full moon, and only after 4 pm, on every 2nd Friday…then you can see some basic pick and roll decision making.

This entire strategic interface needs to be torn down, thrown in the garbage and rebuilt. Only include that comes with an iron clad guarantee of working.

Leave them used to work on old gen. Ever since that Ogall dude left the defensive settings have been trash.

Most work this year, but the leave them and cutter settings don’t work consistently.

[Sheitan]

Re: Screen and Hedge Settings

I disagree wholeheartedly.

But in terms of x and o strategy, this part of the game has not worked properly since ACE was unveiled.

How long have we been asking for an option to set a defender to genuinely leave their dude alone. Yeah there’s gap/leave them but that is very hit and miss. Why can’t we have a defender who does the 2.9 tap dance and only worries about his defender once he gets within 3 steps of the rim.

Look at the shenanigans we’re having to do to establish some pretty basic strategic decisions. You need to play on superstar, but not on a full moon, and only after 4 pm, on every 2nd Friday…then you can see some basic pick and roll decision making.

This entire strategic interface needs to be torn down, thrown in the garbage and rebuilt. Only include that comes with an iron clad guarantee of working.

That’s what I’m saying when I say SIM nation is a fraud. And you basically prove it here.

When a company making billions of $ of profit and they are not even able to allocate some ressources to build up a correct AI and offline gaming experience, then the whole concept of SIM nation or whatever key word used to describe it proves that the concept is a fraud.

[shaqfu9]

Re: Screen and Hedge Settings

That’s what I’m saying when I say SIM nation is a fraud. And you basically prove it here.

When a company making billions of $ of profit and they are not even able to allocate some ressources to build up a correct AI and offline gaming experience, then the whole concept of SIM nation or whatever key word used to describe it proves that the concept is a fraud.

It's honestly hard to disagree with this. It seems the updates and fixes we get as a offline community are because of the online crowd having those same issues.

Latest example is the matchups bug. A lot of MyTeam players complained about the issue and it got fixed in the patch/update.

Some of us here also mentioned that custom defensive settings for CPU teams were not working either. But who cares? Those settings only affect offline players so they'll probably stay untouched.

[VictorMG]

Re: Screen and Hedge Settings

It's honestly hard to disagree with this. It seems the updates and fixes we get as a offline community are because of the online crowd having those same issues.

Latest example is the matchups bug. A lot of MyTeam players complained about the issue and it got fixed in the patch/update.

Some of us here also mentioned that custom defensive settings for CPU teams were not working either. But who cares? Those settings only affect offline players so they'll probably stay untouched.

Same with the AI not making subs. That affected people in MyPlayer because they weren't getting tick or they were being played 48 MPG, and it got fixed.

[topwater]

Re: Screen and Hedge Settings

There's too many factors that seem to influence and affect what goes on, and a lot seem arbitrary which results in a game of 'whackamole' for sim guys when trying to fix it.

If you boil it down, and I have been saying this for over 10 years, 2K put the primary emphasis of defense on individual play, which is dead wrong. The starting point of the defensive mess is a huge culprit in my eyes. Every CPU controlled defender is programmed to get in front of you and contest your every move with extreme prejudice. It's way over the top, and it presents in a very broken, wonky, herky-jerky and at times violent nature. It's never been more evident than in the last 5 years that NBA basketball defense is fundamentally, and entirely based around teamwork, rotations, help and switching. If you start from the exact opposite position where every defender is on an island, has the advantage of reacting at a 1:1 and can recover if need be by warping and sliding, and also if he loses the individual battle then another defender, who's previously engaged elsewhere can then also defy physics and warp 6 feet without lifting a foot off the ground to 'help' at the absolute last second - you end up with 2K 'sim' basketball.

Now we have people playing the same game, using the same sliders saying that their defensive settings work, yet others saying the exact opposite and they all have video evidence of it all being true. Personally I'm in the camp where my defensive settings rarely work despite what I do. I can watch the cpu cheese animate it's way to the cup and have my teammates literally offer precisely zero help at all and then the next time down the court one of their guys will get stuck on a guy in the paint trying to move to his set spot on the wing and one of my defenders will rotate off their assignment and 'help' with him because they think he's a cutter. It's like...ummm, wtf is going on here? More often than not my guys quite literally defy my explicit instructions to do what can only be interpreted as the absolute worst thing to do in the situation. And that blows. I've given my instructions, yet they are ignored so I'm left feeling as though I have to find a solution via player edits and slider tweaks instead of playing.

To make it even worse, not unlike every single year - the game played better upon release. It's not a honeymoon phase passing or clouded memory either. It hasn't been out long enough and you can view videos from just a few weeks ago and see huge differences. Hell, I haven't even mentioned in any thread here yet, but for weeks now, for me, turbo is back to randomly working and it'll just stop 2 dribbles in and when the game was released everyone and their dog was over the moon happy about the responsiveness and separation players would get in the open court. Now It's like I'm in mud and the defender behind me, who of course is going faster than me, is going to put the back of his wrist on my lower back and I'm gonna slow down and be forced into a contact animation where just 1.8 seconds ago I was about 3 feet ahead of him, but now I'm laying it up and he's standing directly in front of me... . Sucks. Absolutely blows. But it's the CPU defensive primary directive achieved. By hook or by crook.

I hope we get some solutions. At this point I don't care if it's from 2K (lol, it won't be) or roster editors and slider tweekers in this community. It's nearly 2025. Can we please get some defenders to move and react like actual human beings as opposed to psychic robots on rails? Please? Or maybe just play some rudimentary grade school defense where you switch on screens or go over when the coach tells you to?

[topwater]

Re: Screen and Hedge Settings

I found at the end of 2k24 I could do your above scenario of leaving the bad shooters alone. Definitely not the 2.9ing tap dance but that’s why I was so keen for 2k25 and jumped straight into helping make a roster. Little did I know the defence had regressed.

Lol at the hoops we have to jump through to get a guy to go over. Haha

I agree the interface needs to be built from the ground up but I worry how many more cycles that would take. Hopefully the matchup bug has brought the devs attention to the interface and something is done at the next patch.

It's not coming soon. Here we are, for years now asking for the same fixes and saying the same things, yet there they are offering us new game modes like Fortnite. The only way sim guys get anything is by fluke. Changes occur for money making modes. The literal hundreds of millions (think about that figure for a second) they make via the online content vs the, at most, tens of thousands they'd make via sim guys is on paper and in practice, the inarguable, undeniable worst allocation of resources possible.

When 2k30 drops and it's about a month old, I'll dig this thread up and direct everyone's attention to this exact post. I'll say that by then it's more likely than not we'll be saying very similar things, unfortunately.

Hurts my feelings, haha.

[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: Screen and Hedge Settings

I’ve always been a defender of the sim aspects of this game.

Some evidence was obvious. My eras for example. The complete control of myleague or whatever it’s called now.

Other evidence you had to squint for. Yes default tendencies are bad, but we’ve been given the tools to edit them and share them efficiently.

A poster ITT nailed it. We only get a pizza if the park players can eat a slice too. Pro play is jaw droppingly good. But it’s for them too. Probably mainly for them?

The squinting to see the dim stuff has been harder recently. This year? Another dribbling system. More sauce. Meh. Another shooting system. Meh.

Meanwhile, have dribble hand offs changed since like…2k 17?? The big still doesn’t screen and the guard sometimes runs up and stands there. There is a setting to determine how you defend it but it doesn’t work.

Rotations have gotten worse. I used to see help the helper. Now it’s a wide open shot on the 2nd pass.

The entire strategic aspect has stalled for 5 years. Do we remember the big deal that was made about CPU golden state Bogut matching up on Cleveland non shooting wings? Or how CPU elite defenders would cross match on to our superstar? That was 2k17.

Past few years we’re back to seeing purely positional match ups. (Trae guarding Luka. Hell he’ll guard Wemby if you play him at PG). We got around it by changing our guys positions. With the match up bug that is now hit and miss.

I mentioned in another thread. Look at the offensive settings tab. Look at who the freelances are designed for. JJ Redick, Isaiah Thomas and Kenny Anderson are mentioned. Cmon.

I know there’s devs that want to improve this stuff. You can even see the fossilised attempts at it in the settings screen. But they clearly aren’t being empowered to build the sim game they want.

At least this is how it appears to me, sitting thousands of kilometers away.

[shaqfu9]

Re: Screen and Hedge Settings

It's not coming soon. Here we are, for years now asking for the same fixes and saying the same things, yet there they are offering us new game modes like Fortnite. The only way sim guys get anything is by fluke. Changes occur for money making modes. The literal hundreds of millions

I almost forgot about that NBA 2k25 Fortnite DLC. Who cares about defensive settings lmfao

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[topwater]

Re: Screen and Hedge Settings

I’ve always been a defender of the sim aspects of this game.

Some evidence was obvious. My eras for example. The complete control of myleague or whatever it’s called now.

Other evidence you had to squint for. Yes default tendencies are bad, but we’ve been given the tools to edit them and share them efficiently.

A poster ITT nailed it. We only get a pizza if the park players can eat a slice too. Pro play is jaw droppingly good. But it’s for them too. Probably mainly for them?

The squinting to see the dim stuff has been harder recently. This year? Another dribbling system. More sauce. Meh. Another shooting system. Meh.

Meanwhile, have dribble hand offs changed since like…2k 17?? The big still doesn’t screen and the guard sometimes runs up and stands there. There is a setting to determine how you defend it but it doesn’t work.

Rotations have gotten worse. I used to see help the helper. Now it’s a wide open shot on the 2nd pass.

The entire strategic aspect has stalled for 5 years. Do we remember the big deal that was made about CPU golden state Bogut matching up on Cleveland non shooting wings? Or how CPU elite defenders would cross match on to our superstar? That was 2k17.

Past few years we’re back to seeing purely positional match ups. (Trae guarding Luka. Hell he’ll guard Wemby if you play him at PG). We got around it by changing our guys positions. With the match up bug that is now hit and miss.

I mentioned in another thread. Look at the offensive settings tab. Look at who the freelances are designed for. JJ Redick, Isaiah Thomas and Kenny Anderson are mentioned. Cmon.

I know there’s devs that want to improve this stuff. You can even see the fossilised attempts at it in the settings screen. But they clearly aren’t being empowered to build the sim game they want.

At least this is how it appears to me, sitting thousands of kilometers away.

Bruhhhhh, I know it's not changing anytime soon but dribble handoffs kill me. What really gets me is the CPU does them and the receiver gets the ball and in one fluid motion continues, as one should. Meanwhile 95% of the time I get the ball my guy stops dead, does an odd hitch animation, slows down, goes in the complete opposite direction, takes the ball before the passer as opposed to getting it adjacent to him and continue behind him for a natural screen etc. Kills me. Absolute immersion killer for me. Indy have play in their book and it's 3 handoffs and the CPU can pull it off and it looks amazing. I try it and it looks like 3 crippled guys getting handed a 50 LB, hot, sharp bomb.

So many little things that haven't evolved in almost a decade. Despite my opinion of them not really doing much for stuff like that as opposed to focusing on money making modes/issues, I still struggle with accepting that on some level, somebody there, if not several somebodies, have got to see the same things we do and feel the same way. There's no way everyone there picks up a controller and thinks "Wow!! The way that defender just bent time and space to warp through 3 other players without lifting a foot off the ground to get to me, lightly slap at the ball, knock it loose, then pivot on a dime 200 degrees, propel himself forward about 7 feet at 65 MPH still without lifting a foot off the ground, grab the ball and then throw a perfect pass through the closest defenders forearm was amazing! So realistic!" I refuse to believe it. Surely some young, half baked person there must've gone to a higher up saying "Umm, why is it when I do dribble handoffs the guy receiving the ball loses 50 IQ points and is immediately stricken with Cerebral Palsy"

[Smirkin Dirk]

Re: Screen and Hedge Settings

By the way, does anyone remember the switch every off ball screen setting actually working?

I just can’t ever remember it working reliably for more than a possession or 2. Manual switching is better, but we shouldn’t need to do it.

It’s not some cheat code. it may prevent the 3 but there’s a mismatch now. 2 mismatches in fact. This risk and reward from strategic decisions is needed. Badly.
It can’t all just be 1v 1.

[Reddcheese]

Re: Screen and Hedge Settings

I got a message from 2k on discord. Maybe they’ll have a look at defence!

https://ibb.co/nCnSS1g

[shaqfu9]

Re: Screen and Hedge Settings

I got a message from 2k on discord. Maybe they’ll have a look at defence!

https://ibb.co/nCnSS1g

That's nice. What did you say? I would say that when I change any AI custom defensive setting and then switch back to my team those settings don't work.