7th Official NBA 2K25 Player Ratings Update - 2.13.25

[Rori Daed]

Re: 7th Official NBA 2K25 Player Ratings Update - 2.13.25

Does anyone know how each POE tangibly changes the gameplay? Sometimes I find it hard to tell when switching from one setting to another

[Real2KInsider]

Re: 7th Official NBA 2K25 Player Ratings Update - 2.13.25

Incredible stuff by real2kinsider. We appreciate you. Doing gods work. Truly respect your analysis of the game. I dont understand how 2k has yet to tap you for role on the team.

It's because I'm an A-Hole. I also very clearly lost all respect for the roster dev.

Deep cut but for anyone who listened to the SimNation show during it's heyday, anyone remember the show where they brought that future roster dev on? As the resident roster expert, my absence from the panel was notable. He requested I not be on it. A few years ago I found out a select few things he thought about me behind the scenes. I found this hilarious because unbenownst to him, he was the only roster editor I held in high regard at the time.

He brought in his college besties (who barely even followed the NBA) to work under him and tank the product. Obviously not the most secure person, and cared more about his bubble than performance/results. When you have all these issues you haven't learned from more than a decade later, you're going to hear my mouth. I'd imagine that's what the money and prestige is for.

I have also gone on record that I don't want the roster job. They need to hire someone from an NBA circle and stop looking for community handouts and friends of friends. 2K isn't some ragtag upstart studio anymore. Likewise, the fanciful days of my youth are over. I make double the money as an NYC Server/Bartender. A tireless work ethic, strong attention to detail, teamwork (believe it or not lol), ability to handle an intimate setting or a large crowd, a strong personality, and a sarcastic wit all lend themselves well there.

I primarily just do roster work out of enjoyment. It's my little contribution to the sport that few can replicate, given 20-years of experience to get to this point, and still adding to the bag every day.

[Real2KInsider]

Re: 7th Official NBA 2K25 Player Ratings Update - 2.13.25

Are you using your roster in a MyNBA or just playnow? and what sliders are you using for gameplay on your roster?

I don't touch Sliders.

Sounds crazy but I haven't played a game of 2K for personal enjoyment in probably 10 years.

*Logs onto PSN* Oh man

2K Trophy counts
2K14: 6
2K15: 13
2K16: 5
2K17: 0
2K18: 15
2K19: 0
2K20: 5
2K21: 4
2K22: 2
2K23: 0
2K24: 0
2K25: 0

[Real2KInsider]

Re: 7th Official NBA 2K25 Player Ratings Update - 2.13.25

Honing in on a role player: Eric Gordon's season is also over.

Eric Gordon (39 Games, 768 Minutes)
POS: SG
H/W/W: 6'3" / 215 lbs / 6'9" WS
AGE: 36
ARCH: 3pt Shot Creator (from Perimeter Shot Creator)
OVERALL: 76 (+1)
BADGES: 4 (-1)

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/8BezNJ_fzyc?si=_4lISE29fNuM06I5" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" referrerpolicy="strict-origin-when-cross-origin" allowfullscreen></iframe>

INSIDE SCORING
70 (-5) Driving Layup: 21-44 FG (48 FG%, 67 AST%, 2.1 FGA/36)
45 (-25) Driving Dunk: 0-1 FG (0 FG%, 0 AST%, 0.0 FGA/36)
30 (NC) Standing Dunk
45 (-18) Post Fade: 0-0 FG (0 FG%, 0 AST%, 0.0 FGA/36)
50 (+15) Post Hook: 2-2 FG (100 FG%, 0 AST%, 0.1 FGA/36)
45 (-5) Post Control: 0.0 Post/36
60 (NC) Draw Foul: 23.5% FTR / 2.3 FTA/36
30 (NC) Offensive Rebound: 1.1 ORB%

-Gordon has dunked twice in the last 3 years. Nice 70 rating goofy. Thanks for not making an update since you took office.

SHOOTING
68 (-9) Close Shot: 12-33 FG (36 FG%, 83 AST%, 1.5 FGA/36)
71 (-9) Mid-Range: 0-2 FG (0 FG%, 0 AST%, 0.1 FGA/36)
87 (+2) 3PT Shot: 53-129 FG (41 FG%, 94 AST%, 6.0 FGA/36)
78 (+4) Free Throw: 36-48 FT (75 FT%, 2.3 FTA/36)
80 (+20) Shot IQ: 59 TS%, 15 USG%

Here's where things get tricky due to sample sizes and shooting volatility.

Role players don't take mid-range shots anymore. Shots from 16-23 Feet account for 1% of Gordon's FGA over his last 6 seasons. He shot only 7-32 (22%) over that stretch, which is not factoring things like shot quality/variance etc. Without overthinking it, the easiest solution is to take his career rate of 38%, convert to it's base rating of 76, and institute a 5-point volume penalty. You could honestly make it a -10 if you wanted to go harsher.

The low Close shot sample means that FG% isn't a stable indicator.
Last season: 44-108 (41%)
The low volume/creation are the numbers you should be paying attention to here, NOT the shooting percentage.

Gordon is a career 81 FT% and I don't like season samples lower than 100 FTA. His 78 rating is his 2-year FT sample (87-112).

As for the Shot IQ.... maybe they wouldn't need to tank it so hard if they actually put care into the rest of his attributes. I love that I can pick any random player and give a dissertation on how stupid and lazy they are.

PLAYMAKING
75 (-4) Ball Handle: 0.8 PNR + 0.5 ISO/36
55 (+12) Pass Vision: 12.2 AST%
70 (-3) Pass IQ: 2.3 A/T
75 (+6) Pass Accuracy: 0.8 Bad Pass/36
95 (+1) Hands: 0.3 Lost Ball/36

Gordon's offensive role has been declining throughout the years. He was pretty much relegated to being a spotup shooter this season, and posted the lowest Usage rate of his career.

DEFENSE
40 (+1) Defensive Rebound: 6.0 DRB%
55 (+13) Interior Defense
70 (-3) Perimeter Defense
51 (-5) Block: 1.6 BLK%
68 (+22) Steal: 1.7 STL%

Gordon has enough bulk to guard some SFs, but isn't a POA defender by any stretch at his age.

ATHLETICISM
75 (-4) Speed
75 (-3) Speed w/ Ball
80 (+1) Agility
70 (-12) Vertical: 40.0 Max Vert.... in 2008
65 (+5) Strength: 6'3" / 215 lbs
85 (-7) Stamina: 28 MPG as Starter
80 (-5) Hustle: 2.4 Deflections/36 + 0.5 LooseBalls/36
65 (-13) Durability: 925-1367 Career GP (68%) - Last 5 years: 260-393 (66%)

Just getting a 36-year old to feel like a 36-year old.

MENTAL
60 (+10) Offensive Consistency: -0.8 OBPM
60 (+10) Defensive Consistency: -0.8 DBPM
65 (-3) Pass Perception
75 (+2) Help Defense
99 (+39) Intangibles (Role Player 70 / Max out 3pt Specialist)

3pt Specialist Shooting Guards generally don't rate high enough because 2K puts too heavy weight on Ball Handle. Hence we need to max out his INT to keep him above non-rotation players.

----------------------------------------------------------

BADGE EDITS
TOTAL: 4 (-1)

SHOOTING
GOLD: Limitless Range (+3)
SILVER: Mini Marksman, Set Shot Specialist (-1)
BRONZE: Slippery Off-Ball (-1)
REMOVE: Deadeye (-2), Shifty Shooter (-1)

Changes from R2K 2024: Shifty -1

Gordon was just a shooting specialist this year, didn't really create anything.

Limitless Range
Gordon is 50-126 (40%) on 30 footers for his career (including 4-7 in his 768 mins this season).
Klay Thompson (SILVER) entering this season: 13-48
The entire Knicks team has hit 28 in their careers entering this season.
2K naturally has no badge on Gordon. Why put in research when you could just arbitrarily apply it to your favorite Warriors?

---------------------------------------------

Gordon has a 3.5M Player Option for next season that he'll likely exercise. He played well next to Tyrese Maxey in the starting lineup, but was a slow starter this season as the team floundered out of the gate.

He projects to be the 3rd/4th string SG next season on a Sixers team that will have younger players ahead of him. He could be salary dumped / traded to a contender if all the other guards return.

Teams that could use a veteran SG: Boston, Denver, Milwaukee, New York, Orlando

[Real2KInsider]

Re: 7th Official NBA 2K25 Player Ratings Update - 2.13.25

Came across this post in my roster research and thought it was relevant to the plus-minus tom foolery.

https://www.reddit.com/r/chicagobull...egative_every/

Dosunmu passes the eye test - good defender, and shoots at a pretty good click. But when it comes to +/- he’s been such a massive negative, consistently.

2021-22 he was -199 for the season.

Not only was that dead last, the next worse guy on the team was -61. So basically Ayo was 3 times worse on that stat the next worst one.

2022-23 he was -77 for the season

That marked 2nd lowest +/- on the team. PWill at -142 was the worst.

2023-2024 he’s at -135 for the season so far

One again, a big negative while on the floor, his -135 puts him at 3rd worst.

Now I understand that this season we’ve been overall a negative in +/-, specially because of how we started the season. But check this out, even since Nov 30, when the season turnaround (relatively) started, he’s still been absolutely horrible.

Since Nov 30 … last 57 games he’s been -147

So during the relatively successful part of the season when most of the guys improved their +/- he has been a massive negative.

Any of this sound familiar?
For educational purposes, this was the key response.

It doesn't matter how much data you have, raw +/- is a meaningless stat.

Look at some examples. Wemby has a +/- of -130 this season. Do you think Ayo is as good as Wemby?

Coby had a +/- of +146 last season. This season its -23. Do you think he got worse?

What do you think would happen if you put Ayo on the Celtics? His +/- would skyrocket even if his performance remained the same.

DeMar had a +/- of +440 in his last season with the Raptors and then +10 in his next season with the Spurs. You see what I'm getting at

Comparisons with teammates also don't work because they depend a lot on lineups. For example if a player plays more with the second unit you can expect worse +/- than if he runs with the starters.

There are decent all-in-one metrics available. Plus-minus is not one of them. You're wasting your time if you're trying to interpret the numbers.

You need to collect several years of data and adjust for the strength of every teammate and every opponent to get a metric with decent accuracy, which is called APM (adjusted plus minus), and even that is a flawed stat if you want to know how good a player currently is. RAPM (regularized adjusted plus minus) addressed some of the issues with APM but it's no longer available.

EPM is another metric that uses part RAPM and part box score based stats to allow for reasonably accurate performance tracking that requires less data and can be used for shorter timeframes.

Here you can see Ayo's and Coby's EPM development side by side.

https://imgur.com/oBFkXIS

You can see that Ayo and Coby improved at a similar level this season. EPM is not accurate to the decimal point imo, but it gives a general idea. Ayo currently stands at around -1 this season, which is slightly better than league average. He's already a solid player, still improving and if he keeps playing like that his contract is a steal.

[AIRJ23]

Re: 7th Official NBA 2K25 Player Ratings Update - 2.13.25

I’ll just say this. The true test of a man’s ratings worth is if he can win with who he plays with. If LeBron is really a “96” then he should win a chip with Luka doncic, no excuses. Luka is playing like Luka again, meaning arguably the best all around offensive player to enter the league since *Lebron himself* and possibly the most prolific scorer to enter the league since MJ.

Kyrie went to the finals with Luka and a g league roster last year. If bron is really a 96, along with this lakers roster far more stacked than the Mavs, it’s ring or bust. Kobe won 2 with GASOL as his next best player. If he played with the talent and impact equivalent of a Luka (he did for his first stretch, and won), he’d probably win a chip every year in the 2000’s.

I will give credit that bron seems to be allowing himself to settle into high production role player status and letting Luka be the dominant force. The reason the team did so poorly when Luka first joined is because LeBron didn’t adjust his play style. Luka being Luka with LeBron doing any role stuff needed to aid Luka? Absolutely dangerous. Luka is the best player on this team and for the first time ever, LeBron is officially a number two, but rated like a number one.

[Real2KInsider]

Re: 7th Official NBA 2K25 Player Ratings Update - 2.13.25

If LeBron is really a “96” then he should win a chip with Luka doncic, no excuses

Lol more of the same ol' goal post moving without taking any accountability for prior statements.

The best TEAM wins in the NBA in 2025, sorry a team w/ Jaxson Hayes as it's 5th best player is is probably not beating the Cavs / Celtics / Thunder / Nuggets in a 7-game series

This Lakers team is 2nd in the Western Conference, a major accomplishment considering the roster. Slide the goalposts right down your ****ing throat.

Kobe won 2 with GASOL as his next best player.

Are you comparing a 65-win team to this Laker team? Of course you are, because you have no idea who anyone else on the rosters are besides the top 2 players.

Lamar Odom the 6th man on that team, imagine thinking players like Rui or DFS are even remotely the same caliber.

Kyrie went to the finals with Luka and a g league roster last year

Welp, at least you're open about nobody needing to take you seriously. Best of luck.

[AIRJ23]

Re: 7th Official NBA 2K25 Player Ratings Update - 2.13.25

Lol more of the same ol' goal post moving without taking any accountability for prior statements.

The best TEAM wins in the NBA in 2025, sorry a team w/ Jaxson Hayes as it's 5th best player is is probably not beating the Cavs / Celtics / Thunder / Nuggets in a 7-game series

This Lakers team is 2nd in the Western Conference, a major accomplishment considering the roster. Slide the goalposts right down your ****ing throat.



Are you comparing a 65-win team to this Laker team? Of course you are, because you have no idea who anyone else on the rosters are besides the top 2 players.

Lamar Odom the 6th man on that team, imagine thinking players like Rui or DFS are even remotely the same caliber.



Welp, at least you're open about nobody needing to take you seriously. Best of luck.

Stop it. This lakers roster is top heavy but STACKED. Being 2nd isn’t an accomplishment, it should be a given even with Bron and AD, but we got so used to this stacked lakers being a play in team all decade because every good player they recruited would miraculously be unable to play in the lakers system. Reaves is playing like an all star. Luka and Lebron are arguable the TWO GREATEST PLAYERS DRAFTED IN THE 21ST CENTURY AND ARE ON THE SAME TEAM. A lot of good role players. Even have a strong rookie in Knecht.

And Hayes is far from their 5th best player. lol

Kobe was the only superstar on that team. He had a team of strong role players. Even Gasol is essentially a high production role player.

Luka had a friggin +37 last night. He’s cooking. NOT ONE TOP 10 PLAYER HAS EVER PLAYED WITH A TALENT LIKE LUKA. Only LeBron gets to play with the likes of Wade, Kyrie, AD, LUKA, and we make excuses when he doesn’t win a chip. No excuses this time. Lakers should have no problem obliterating okc if they’re worth their weight.

[dnikafoeno]

Re: 7th Official NBA 2K25 Player Ratings Update - 2.13.25

Kobe was the only superstar on that team. He had a team of strong role players. Even Gasol is essentially a high production role player.

Calling a ROY, Hall of Famer, 6x All Star, 4x All NBA a high production role player is insane... this is why we can't take your posts serious lol.

[Real2KInsider]

Re: 7th Official NBA 2K25 Player Ratings Update - 2.13.25

Kyrie Irving's season is over with a Torn ACL. He will likely miss the majority of next season as well (10-12 month recovery). When Nico Harrison said the Mavs were in Win-Now mode, little did he know the window he was talking about would be 1 month.

Kyrie Irving (50 Games, 1804 Minutes)
POS: PG/SG
H/W/W: 6'2" / 191 lbs / 6'4" WS
AGE: 32
ARCH: 2-Way Scoring Phenom (from Offensive Architect)
OVERALL: 90 (-2)
BADGES: 21 (+3)

Kyrie played most of his minutes at SG this year, but the Mavs had recently settled on Max Christie as his backcourt mate. His positional distinction & role within the offense has a significant impact on his OVR, which will be covered throughout.

I did not expect Kyrie's OVR to drop so hard (I had him at 93 prior), but his passing degraded despite taking a larger on-ball role after the break.

Pre-ASB (44 games): 24.6 PPG, 4.8 RPG, 4.5 APG, 34.6 MPG
Post-ASB (6 games): 25.0 PPG, 4.8 RPG, 3.5 APG, 32.5 MPG
Removing the ACL game: 28.6 PPG, 5.6 RPG, 4.0 APG, 37.2 MPG

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INSIDE SCORING
95 (-2) Driving Layup: 142-235 FG (60 FG%, 39 AST%, 4.7 FGA/36)
45 (+15) Driving Dunk: 1-1 FG (100 FG%, 100 AST%, 0.0 FGA/36)
30 (+5) Standing Dunk
70 (NC) Post Fade: 19-48 FG (40 FG%, 32 AST%, 1.0 FGA/36)
50 (+15) Post Hook: 3-6 FG (50 FG%, 0 AST%, 0.1 FGA/36)
70 (+6) Post Control: 0.9 Post/36
55 (-30) Draw Foul: 22.6% FTR / 4.3 FTA/36
44 (+4) Offensive Rebound: 3.7 ORB%

-Kyrie is an elite finisher, though he has to use craft to get to the rim and can't just bulldoze his way there like the league's best finishers. Can see his Layup dropping to 85-90 upon his return.
-Kyrie is one of the best post-up PGs in the NBA, which is actually common for PGs of his skill level. He might have to rely on that more when he comes back.
-Kyrie had a career-best 6 dunks last season, and has 31 in his career. I'd imagine his days of rim grazing are probably over.
-Career high ORB rate for Kyrie, which makes some sense as he split his minutes at the two. He's always been a little above average here relative to his position - and stands as another edge that might be limited upon his return.

SHOOTING
99 (+8) Close Shot: 163-345 FG (47 FG%, 25 AST%, 6.9 FGA/36)
86 (-12) Mid-Range: 28-72 FG (39 FG%, 39 AST%, 1.4 FGA/36)
89 (+2) 3PT Shot: 142-347 FG (41 FG%, 63 AST%, 6.9 FGA/36)
92 (+1) Free Throw: 196-214 FT (92 FT%, 4.3 FTA/36)
85 (+5) Shot IQ: 59 TS%, 27 USG%

-Career low Mid-Range FG% for Irving, but on a sub-100 FGA sample. Still, a 98 Mid-Range rating is ridiculous padding. 42% over his last two seasons. Even if you factored 10-16 feet as mid-range rather than Close, he was only 50-114 (44%) on those shots.

PLAYMAKING
90 (-9) Ball Handle: 4.7 PNR/36 + 5.1 ISO/36
66 (-4) Pass Vision: 20.6 AST%
80 (-5) Pass IQ: 2.1 A/T
80 (-4) Pass Accuracy: 1.3 Bad Pass/36
95 (-1) Hands: 0.6 Lost Ball/36

-Career low Assist rate for Kyrie. He spent a lot of time at the two next to Luka, but a big part of why he was so successful in an off-the-ball role is even at his best he never possessed great vision or passing ability.

-Kyrie also posted the lowest Usage rate of his career, despite the absence & trade of Luka. Probably not the greatest sign for him returning to star form post-injury.

DEFENSE
51 (+1) Defensive Rebound: 10.5 DRB%
55 (+33) Interior Defense
80 (+7) Perimeter Defense
46 (-1) Block: 1.1 BLK%
70 (+21) Steal: 1.8 STL%

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ATHLETICISM
85 (NC) Speed
85 (NC) Speed w/ Ball
85 (NC) Agility
65 (-11) Vertical
55 (+18) Strength: 6'2" / 191 lbs
95 (-2) Stamina: 36 MPG
90 (+3) Hustle: 3.3 Deflections/36 + 0.9 LooseBalls/36
70 (-19) Durability: 779-1112 Career GP (70%)

MENTAL
99 (+1) Offensive Consistency: 4.0 OBPM
65 (+5) Defensive Consistency: -0.5 DBPM
75 (-11) Pass Perception
75 (NC) Help Defense
90 (+19) Intangibles (All-Star + Max due to Position shift)

Kyrie's OVR at PG is repressed a bit by his below average passing numbers. Some of that (but not all) was repressed by his secondary ball handler role.

----------------------------------------------------------

TOTAL BADGES: 21 (+3)

FINISHING
GOLD: Layup Mixmaster
SILVER: Float Game (-1)
BRONZE: Physical Finisher (-2)

SHOOTING
GOLD: Mini Marksman, Shifty Shooter
SILVER: Limitless Range (-1), Slippery Off-Ball (+1)
BRONZE: Post Fade Phenom (ADD), Set Shot Specialist (-2)

PLAYMAKING
GOLD: Ankle Assassin (-1), Bail Out, Handles for Days (-1), Lightning Launch, Unpluckable
SILVER: Break Starter (-1), Strong Handle (-1)
BRONZE: Dimer, Versatile Visionary (-1)

DEFENSE
SILVER: Glove (ADD)
BRONZE: Pick Dodger (ADD)

A lot of Kyrie's badges can be described as "Star Player Fluff". Some, like Physical Finisher, are gross exaggerations of his actual ability.

2K has two HOF badges on Kyrie (Handles for Days, and Ankle Assassin), but his Cavs/Nets days are over. They apparently think he is Allen Iverson out there, when the reality is he's far more calculating in his 30s. He relies more on scoring over the defense, rather than blowing past it at an All-Time level.

---------------------------------------------

FUTURE ANALYSIS
2025: 44.0M Player Option (Age 33)

This is awful timing for Kyrie, who earned his way back to All-Star status. He will miss most of (if not all) of the 2026 season.

There are some parallels between he and former teammate Kevin Durant, who was set to miss an entire season entering his free agency. Even though an Achilles is generally more significant than an ACL, KD was two years younger, and has a significant size advantage that allows him to get his shot off without anywhere near as much manipulation.

Kobe Bryant has also been used as a reference point. Kobe got hurt a bit older at 34 (also an Achilles), and was a shell of himself after that. I don't believe it will be that dire, but the loss of Irving exacerbates the Mavericks' win-now trade for Anthony Davis. Losing one of Kyrie's final prime seasons is comparable to the Pelicans situation with DeJounte Murray where the team is screwed in limbo for the next two years, as they can neither contend nor bottom out.

While Kyrie could Opt-out and sign a new deal, he could also opt-in and negotiate an extension later. Either way, this stands to impact him financially as he probably had enough leverage post-Luka trade to extract the maximum possible out of Nico and the Mavs. He now may be looking at something more team friendly, as whatever he earns will for his Age 34-36 seasons will essentially be factoring in a lost season of rehab.

[Real2KInsider]

Re: 7th Official NBA 2K25 Player Ratings Update - 2.13.25

Calling a ROY, Hall of Famer, 6x All Star, 4x All NBA a high production role player is insane... this is why we can't take your posts serious lol.

Scottie Pippen was just a high production role player, didn't you know?
That's why Michael Jordan was the GOAT, he had no help whatsoever. He was carrying G-League level talent to greatness.

[jd@os]

Re: 7th Official NBA 2K25 Player Ratings Update - 2.13.25

I think your questions have been answered MiracleMet718 lol.

[MiracleMet718]

Re: 7th Official NBA 2K25 Player Ratings Update - 2.13.25

I think your questions have been answered MiracleMet718 lol.

Now we just need to lock them in here and only let them post in this thread.

[AIRJ23]

Re: 7th Official NBA 2K25 Player Ratings Update - 2.13.25

Calling a ROY, Hall of Famer, 6x All Star, 4x All NBA a high production role player is insane... this is why we can't take your posts serious lol.

You’re missing the point or purposefully won’t comprehend it. Gasol wasn’t a #1 option superstar, nor was Pippen. These guys excelled at being role players to superstars. Both will give you 18ppg-20 ppg and have absolutely no capability to lead a team to a championship as the #1 option.

Luka is a superstar who won WCMVP. Wade is a superstar who won FINALS MVP. AD is a superstar who’s top 5 all time PER and can give you monster stats.

6 time all star during an 18 year career IS NOT SUPERSTAR STATUS lmao.

These are not the same.

Kobe DID play with a superstar once, and won 3 straight.

[dnikafoeno]

Re: 7th Official NBA 2K25 Player Ratings Update - 2.13.25

You’re missing the point or purposefully won’t comprehend it. Gasol wasn’t a #1 option superstar, nor was Pippen. These guys excelled at being role players to superstars. Both will give you 18ppg-20 ppg and have absolutely no capability to lead a team to a championship as the #1 option.

Luka is a superstar who won WCMVP. Wade is a superstar who won FINALS MVP. AD is a superstar who’s top 5 all time PER and can give you monster stats.

6 time all star during an 18 year career IS NOT SUPERSTAR STATUS lmao.

These are not the same.

Kobe DID play with a superstar once, and won 3 straight.

You're all over the place lol I'm only focusing on you calling him a "high production role player".

Maybe our definitions are different but a "high production role player" doesn't lead their team to the playoffs 3 times or have those accolades I believe a "star" does.

Just like any Superstar in this league that has won it all or gotten far they needed a "star" to complement them but we can be done with this thread as a new ratings update dropped lol.