The collection grind...who's going for it

[GrimaceZ7]

Re: The collection grind...who's going for it

Hit 1400 cards today for Kiki. Do people still use him in the higher leagues or is his defense too exploitable?

He looks like a somewhat weaker version of Diamond Harden. He's a significantly worse playmaker, somewhat worse athletically, and even more mediocre defensively. He shoots just as well, is 3 inches taller, and has a much better post game than Harden however.

Where have others ran Kiki? At the 3? The 4? Or even the 2?

I ran Kiki at the 2 and 3. He was my weakest defender, so I usered him on defense.

[harryl]

Re: The collection grind...who's going for it

Finally hit the point where I could get PD West right now...if I locked in Current collections. I've only locked in 3, so there's 27 cards for me to add "for free."

Going to try to not be impulsive and try for a few more cheap cards. Last night, I was very surprised to get some very rare Team items for very cheap prices. Had been a while since I did my last Team Items sweep and, I guess several weeks of a very depressed market have finally pushed people to sell this stuff very cheap.

[GrimaceZ7]

Re: The collection grind...who's going for it

Finally hit the point where I could get PD West right now...if I locked in Current collections. I've only locked in 3, so there's 27 cards for me to add "for free."

Going to try to not be impulsive and try for a few more cheap cards. Last night, I was very surprised to get some very rare Team items for very cheap prices. Had been a while since I did my last Team Items sweep and, I guess several weeks of a very depressed market have finally pushed people to sell this stuff very cheap.

I locked in five sets last night to get me close enough to finish the set. Stay strong. But FFS, West is amazing.

[harryl]

Re: The collection grind...who's going for it

I locked in five sets last night to get me close enough to finish the set. Stay strong. But FFS, West is amazing.

I ended up being patient and kept trawling through the weekend to get within 1 card of West. Locked in Bulls to get the B.J. Armstrong to get to 2000, which wasn't so much impatience as it was to have the Armstrong + Draymond Green duo for budget squads.

Digging West. Putting a +9 BC shoe on him, I think, boosts his responsiveness noticeably. Feels more fluid. Think I used one that also maxes out his Acceleration at 99.

If one is mostly following plays/freelance and his ISO skills are not the big deal, then I think his defense, if matched on a driver/slasher, might benefit from +9 boost to Strength.

In general, he's almost fully maxed out in most ratings...or too low in that rating for a boost to really matter. Except maybe post fade. With a +9, I think he gets to 71 or so, and it might then be a viable shot. Especially the Post Hop shots, which might be good for him with his HoF Mid-Range Deadeye.

I'm on PC, so getting up to Wilt would take minimum of 1M MT. Don't think that's going to happen, and have other cards coming up that I'm more interested in than Wilt.

So I think I need to start selling off fairly aggressively. Think I'll try to leave option of getting Wilt in the future somewhat open by focusing on selling off all Moments cards first, and not cards that are no longer supplied to the market by packs.

Could also sell off Team Items, which are also constantly being drawn, but the thought of going through the tedious searches is depressing.

[GrimaceZ7]

Re: The collection grind...who's going for it

I ended up being patient and kept trawling through the weekend to get within 1 card of West. Locked in Bulls to get the B.J. Armstrong to get to 2000, which wasn't so much impatience as it was to have the Armstrong + Draymond Green duo for budget squads.

Digging West. Putting a +9 BC shoe on him, I think, boosts his responsiveness noticeably. Feels more fluid. Think I used one that also maxes out his Acceleration at 99.

If one is mostly following plays/freelance and his ISO skills are not the big deal, then I think his defense, if matched on a driver/slasher, might benefit from +9 boost to Strength.

In general, he's almost fully maxed out in most ratings...or too low in that rating for a boost to really matter. Except maybe post fade. With a +9, I think he gets to 71 or so, and it might then be a viable shot. Especially the Post Hop shots, which might be good for him with his HoF Mid-Range Deadeye.

I'm on PC, so getting up to Wilt would take minimum of 1M MT. Don't think that's going to happen, and have other cards coming up that I'm more interested in than Wilt.

So I think I need to start selling off fairly aggressively. Think I'll try to leave option of getting Wilt in the future somewhat open by focusing on selling off all Moments cards first, and not cards that are no longer supplied to the market by packs.

Could also sell off Team Items, which are also constantly being drawn, but the thought of going through the tedious searches is depressing.

One thing you'll like about West is that if they don't play right up on you, just shoot. There's a hidden rating for range in this game. Steph can hit consistently from deeper than pretty much anyone else regardless of badging and open 3 rating (I've got the Anta 3pt shoe and Gold Limitless on my emerald Klay, and my Sapphire Steph with Limitless and 90 open 3 hits from deeper than the Klay does), and from what I've seen, Glen Rice has it too. Jerry seems to have it as well.

I like to pass off to Goodrich or Worthy and then call Quick 2 Swing for Jerry. He's absolutely automatic with that wide open 3 at the top of the arc, even though they've patched that play.

I run Diamond Magic as my backup, and he really wears on my opponent. It's fun watching them try to keep up with West after Magic drained all their stamina. They get used to being backed down and hooked over and then I can just shoot over them with West.

It's insane to say that a pink diamond can be underrated, but people underrate that West. That was the first time I put a Diamond Contract on a guy the day I got him.

[roboas]

Re: The collection grind...who's going for it

One thing you'll like about West is that if they don't play right up on you, just shoot. There's a hidden rating for range in this game. Steph can hit consistently from deeper than pretty much anyone else regardless of badging and open 3 rating (I've got the Anta 3pt shoe and Gold Limitless on my emerald Klay, and my Sapphire Steph with Limitless and 90 open 3 hits from deeper than the Klay does), and from what I've seen, Glen Rice has it too. Jerry seems to have it as well.

I like to pass off to Goodrich or Worthy and then call Quick 2 Swing for Jerry. He's absolutely automatic with that wide open 3 at the top of the arc, even though they've patched that play.

I run Diamond Magic as my backup, and he really wears on my opponent. It's fun watching them try to keep up with West after Magic drained all their stamina. They get used to being backed down and hooked over and then I can just shoot over them with West.

It's insane to say that a pink diamond can be underrated, but people underrate that West. That was the first time I put a Diamond Contract on a guy the day I got him.

I run the same two at point and agree with all of your points. The change of pace really can throw an opponent off. Sometimes I run west at SG for D, but he's best at the point.

[harryl]

Re: The collection grind...who's going for it

One thing you'll like about West is that if they don't play right up on you, just shoot. There's a hidden rating for range in this game. Steph can hit consistently from deeper than pretty much anyone else regardless of badging and open 3 rating (I've got the Anta 3pt shoe and Gold Limitless on my emerald Klay, and my Sapphire Steph with Limitless and 90 open 3 hits from deeper than the Klay does), and from what I've seen, Glen Rice has it too. Jerry seems to have it as well.

Yeah, it really does seem that there are certain guys who have the super-deep-3 range, independent of any 3-point Ratings or the Limitless Badge. Wonder if some Tendency correlates, or if there is some kind of hidden, individual programming for this.

I recently switched away from shooting with the meter, but maybe I'll turn it back on a for a while to get a better sense of West's deep range.

What I'm mostly trying to focus on is getting very used to using West to shoot threes off of screens. His shot is a bit on the quicker side and he himself is extremely agile and fast. So he can get open if his defender gets caught up on the screen or even if he doesn't get over quickly. I tried this a bit with his Lockdown Amethyst, but that version of him doesn't quite has the 3-point ratings to make these good shots.

[GrimaceZ7]

Re: The collection grind...who's going for it

Yeah, it really does seem that there are certain guys who have the super-deep-3 range, independent of any 3-point Ratings or the Limitless Badge. Wonder if some Tendency correlates, or if there is some kind of hidden, individual programming for this.

Welcome to the dark side! Most people laugh when I mention tendencies, saying that they only apply for CPU controlled players. But then when you do things with a player that he has a high tendency for, they seem to get better results than if he has a low tendency. High tendency with a lower attribute seems to be more effective than low tendency with a high attribute. I'm forgetting the player, but his steal rating was around a 55, but his on-ball steal tendency was a 90 and he stole the ball left and right. And he had a low foul tendency, so he'd swipe all the time and not get whistled.

I don't put flashy passer or tear dropper on guys with low tendencies. Same with pick pocket (and I think Pick Pocket this year serves the same purpose as both Pick Pocket and Interceptor did last year).

Obviously I don't have data to back it up, but like you said about shot range, it feels obvious that there's more to it than simply visible attribute and chance.

[harryl]

Re: The collection grind...who's going for it

Obviously I don't have data to back it up, but like you said about shot range, it feels obvious that there's more to it than simply visible attribute and chance.

I think so. To some sort of degree. Also, as you've also said before, animation has a lot to do with things, insofar as shooting, especially, is concerned, but also dribbling and even passing.

Clearly, at the very least, tendencies will affect certain things such as fouling, from Foul Tendency. Or what layup the CPU will select that your player attempts, when using Shoot button and not specifying precisely with the Shot Stick.

But, yeah...many think it's deeper than that and I definitely don't disagree.

[anditbeg1ns]

Re: The collection grind...who's going for it

Tendency shouldn't have anything to do with effectiveness, that's what ratings are for. But it should control the frequency and variations of animations, like fouls, reach in swipes, layups types, etc.

There is definitely a hidden attribute for range in this game. In 2k16, I was consistently greening or hitting with Diamond Steph from 40 ft out. Diamond Lillard, Kemba, and Kyrie have extended range as well, but not as deep as Curry. However, I remember having trouble hitting with Diamond Klay behind 30 ft out, even though he was like 98 in open 3's and has gold limitless.

[harryl]

Re: The collection grind...who's going for it

Yeah...with Klay, I think he's totally in his element if shooting, say, up to ~5 feet behind the line. But Steph from even further out. One can see this displayed right in the open with the width of the shot meter narrowing and widening, as one moves away from, and toward, the basket.

I'm kind of ambivalent on the tendencies. I don't pay super-close attention to many things. If some guys are better at, say, Teardroppers, despite having the same Shot Close, maybe it's because of Tendencies...maybe because of animations. Maybe the Tendencies correlate with animations.

[anditbeg1ns]

Re: The collection grind...who's going for it

I think it's animations, some animations are easier to time for release. Like for example. I can green a Diamond Porzingis post fade way better than say Ewing, even though he has lower rating and lower tendency for post fade


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[GrimaceZ7]

Re: The collection grind...who's going for it

Yeah...with Klay, I think he's totally in his element if shooting, say, up to ~5 feet behind the line. But Steph from even further out. One can see this displayed right in the open with the width of the shot meter narrowing and widening, as one moves away from, and toward, the basket.

I'm kind of ambivalent on the tendencies. I don't pay super-close attention to many things. If some guys are better at, say, Teardroppers, despite having the same Shot Close, maybe it's because of Tendencies...maybe because of animations. Maybe the Tendencies correlate with animations.

I think with regard to floaters in particular that animations don't really play that big a role. Tony Parker has the best floater animations, followed by Derrick Rose. But I can't think of a single player who has the Parker or Rose layup package other than Parker and Rose. Come to think of it, I don't know of a single player who has the layup package of a player other than that player. IIRC, there are only a few different layup packages other than the named ones. So maybe that's why other than a handful of guys, the floater animations all seem the same.

Where I think tendency might play a significant role is in distance from the basket. Some players' floater animations are triggered farther away from the basket than others are. Some players, I'll feel like I'm well within floater range and they'll pull up instead. With Tony, it's very very smooth, it's almost like he knows he's going to shoot the floater from the time the drive starts.

[GrimaceZ7]

Re: The collection grind...who's going for it

I think it's animations, some animations are easier to time for release. Like for example. I can green a Diamond Porzingis post fade way better than say Ewing, even though he has lower rating and lower tendency for post fade

Porzingis uses Fade 10. Same as Alonzo Mourning, Pau Gasol, Jalil Okafor, KA Towns, Valanciunas, Kanter, Gortat, David Robinson, Aldridge, Bosh, Millsap, Wilt, Whiteside, Draymond, Brook Lopez, Daugherty, Greg Monroe, Joel Embiid, Vlade Divac, Darryl Dawkins and Fade Lord James Edwards.

Ewing uses Fade 3, same as Melo

[Bubba13laze]

Re: The collection grind...who's going for it

Imo Iverson and Nash have the best floater animations in the game. Better than Parker and/or Rose