I’m not a spreadsheet guy but I can probably do a video of teams like I did in the past showing each teams edits. Now that there are 10 players per page it should be easier and quicker videos as well. But I won’t do that until it’s 100% complete because last time I did after rough draft and made mass changes after which I didn’t know I was going to need to do…
NBA X’s & O’s
Collapse
Recommended Videos
Collapse
X
-
Re: NBA X’s & O’s
I’m not a spreadsheet guy but I can probably do a video of teams like I did in the past showing each teams edits. Now that there are 10 players per page it should be easier and quicker videos as well. But I won’t do that until it’s 100% complete because last time I did after rough draft and made mass changes after which I didn’t know I was going to need to do…Basketball Playbooks
http://www.nextplayhoops.com -
Re: NBA X’s & O’s
Playbook Update
All 30 teams and all free agents tendencies are completely done. All 30 teams rough draft playbooks are done and I tested each team in game to tweak and make sure each team is playing correctly.
For example it took me 3 days to get the Clippers & Bucks (hard coded with Giannis & Khawhi) to play like themselves. They were a nightmare. I had similar problem with the Lakers and LeBron. I probably played 100 quarters each of each team and then had to tweak, test, and repeat.
Anyways, tons of signatures were also added to all players from woody’s great work. The game and teams are playing great basketball. I had to tweak some scales slightly as I tested and the minimum and maximum tendencies are all now in their sweet spots.
For example some drive tendencies were too high and needed to be scaled down slightly. There were a ton of new scales this year from games past that have changed drastically. Like the drive tendencies, attack strong, close, etc…
Next step, someone will be editing all the vitals, coaches, ages, more sigs, etc.
As that’s happening I’m watching game film and will be watching tons of games from last year and this years pre-season to add some real plays. Also, as I’m watching film For plays I’m also breaking down player specific tendencies and tweaking as needed. Such as finishing with spin layups, euro, hop step, dribble moves, stepbacks, pull up’s, etc…
For example I watched some games last night and took some notes.
Pacers ran some 5out (Give 52 Clear), DBL Drag into DBL stagger, Chicago, Staggers, empty side PNR with Sabonis, RIP screen to Sabonis, Veer action, etc.
The Clippers ram some elbow action, some AI cuts, and basic dbl staggers. While the Timberwolves ram some double drags. And the Kings ran some pistol into double drag, horns elbow, and some 5 out delay action for Hield. The Grizzlies with double horns top key PNR. Etcetera…
That’s just some examples of notes I’m taking and matching up real team plays and actions with 2k plays. Oh, and 1 last big edit is the order I place plays in for each category will be the last thing I do but very important this year. To see certain actions that are team specific this will need to be done as well.
Of note I have a real nice slider set locked in to go with the roster. I also added another playbook that’s DHO heavy that’s complete and in standard playbook to assign for everyone.
Anyways, don’t confuse me being quiet as not working on the project. It’s actually the opposite. If I’m quiet I’m in deep editing. Lol! This will be complete by opening day! The game has only been out 2 1/2 weeks so where I’m at is pretty crazy to be honest! 10-12 hours a day to get where I’m currently at since release. No idea how any roster could even be out before now. So again, please be patient. The final update will have crazy detail.Comment
-
Re: NBA X’s & O’s
For example: Shot IQ is a must edit. They are way too high. Draw fouls, commit fouls, charges, etc to get more realistic foul calls in game with balanced sliders. Help D IQ for smarter AI.
It’s a puzzle you put together to get players playing like themselves. I posted this in another thread awhile back.
An example is stepback 3. To achieve this you need numerous tendencies in a sweet spot to see it. Not only do they need to be in the sweet spots but you need to test each tendency to find where the sweet spot is. It’s so time consuming.
1. Shot IQ
2. Stepback 3
3. 3 point shot
4. Drive tendency
5. Pull up 3 tendency
6. Play discipline
7. Contested 3
That is all just to get a player to attempt that 1 action in game. Then you repeat for mid range pull up stepback guys. All need to also be in their sweet spots. So, like I said it’s a puzzle. It’s not just plug in said number. Yes there are sweet spots but also it’s player specific. That’s why it comes down to me testing 100 quarters, stop, edit, repeat until I get what I want. It’s player specific. No player has the same tendencies even if they play similar because in 1 area they probably play different. You know me I’m all about gameplay 1st and foremost. It’s not just plug in a set number in 1 area to get a shot. And it has to be tested over and over. It’s all about balance. The balance really comes into play with 2 or 3 level scorers as well.
So, I think the best way to do this is to record it all when done so everyone can make changes to specific players, teams, or whole rosters. I realize people want it all on a spreadsheet but that’s crazy amount of work and inputting into a spreadsheet. If someone wants to do that when I’m done cool as that would be beneficial to the community.
I prefer a more open game, freedom of movement, drive and kick, drive heavy, ball movement, spacing, etc. all of that is how the nba is played so I try to replicate that. But all that has to be balanced with drive tendencies, play discipline, pass to open man, etc. But I will say layup tendency is huge this year as is lower strong drive. Almost flip flopped them as far as importance to get a finish at the rim. Plus standing layup needs to be at certain range or they won’t attempt a putback. That includes big wings or guards. We don’t want Lebron grabbing a rebound under the hoop and then passing the ball out.
My point being every tendency has a effect on something and realism. But again it’s all player specific and team specific. Another example is a team like the warriors. If looney or Draymond rebound under the hoop I want them looking to kick out to steph or Klay more than finishing. It depends on player and team. That’s the detail.
So, yes I’ll post everything (plays) and record it all so people on PS can also get it when it’s all done.
I hope this post helps answer how difficult it is to post just random ranges as it really varies per player. Hope that all made sense. And I tagged your post but it was meant for everyone as it’s been brought up a few times in this thread. I just wanted to give some context… I just named a few things of importance but really every tendency is extremely important. So I did them all. And a few huge attributes that also had to be done as well… Without the shot iq and few attribute edits players tendencies won’t play out as they should. Shot iq also has ranges and are way to high out of the box! All this stuff was in the tendency thread as well. Just different ranges. High Shot IQ makes players not play like themselves. Depending on player 95 for high volume catch and shoot shooters, 90, 85, 83, 82, 80, 75, 70 are where it needs to be. Big difference in 85, 83, and 82.
I’m actually pretty burned out already of editing. It’s just crazy the lengths we have to go to get real basketball. I look at some things like dunk on drive and totally get why 2k does that and it’s not for the simulation crowd. Lol but it’s annoying and another necessary edit. I actuall also counteract that with slider dunk in traffic tendency at 40 so I see much more realistic drives and finishes instead of highlight real dunks all game.
Sorry for long post but you guys know me by now all my posts are long. :-)Last edited by vannwolfhawk; 09-29-2021, 03:27 PM.Basketball Playbooks
http://www.nextplayhoops.comComment
-
Re: NBA X’s & O’s
I have edited every tendency. Pretty much everything got edited. Basically everything from the tendency thread is still required it’s just the ranges changed. I’d have to list every tendency change. Some attributes as well had to be tweaked.
For example: Shot IQ is a must edit. They are way too high. Draw fouls, commit fouls, charges, etc to get more realistic foul calls in game with balanced sliders. Help D IQ for smarter AI.
It’s a puzzle you put together to get players playing like themselves. I posted this in another thread awhile back.
An example is stepback 3. To achieve this you need numerous tendencies in a sweet spot to see it. Not only do they need to be in the sweet spots but you need to test each tendency to find where the sweet spot is. It’s so time consuming.
1. Shot IQ
2. Stepback 3
3. 3 point shot
4. Drive tendency
5. Pull up 3 tendency
6. Play discipline
7. Contested 3
That is all just to get a player to attempt that 1 action in game. Then you repeat for mid range pull up stepback guys. All need to also be in their sweet spots. So, like I said it’s a puzzle. It’s not just plug in said number. Yes there are sweet spots but also it’s player specific. That’s why it comes down to me testing 100 quarters, stop, edit, repeat until I get what I want. It’s player specific. No player has the same tendencies even if they play similar because in 1 area they probably play different. You know me I’m all about gameplay 1st and foremost. It’s not just plug in a set number in 1 area to get a shot. And it has to be tested over and over. It’s all about balance. The balance really comes into play with 2 or 3 level scorers as well.
So, I think the best way to do this is to record it all when done so everyone can make changes to specific players, teams, or whole rosters. I realize people want it all on a spreadsheet but that’s crazy amount of work and inputting into a spreadsheet. If someone wants to do that when I’m done cool as that would be beneficial to the community.
I prefer a more open game, freedom of movement, drive and kick, drive heavy, ball movement, spacing, etc. all of that is how the nba is played so I try to replicate that. But all that has to be balanced with drive tendencies, play discipline, pass to open man, etc. But I will say layup tendency is huge this year as is lower strong drive. Almost flip flopped them as far as importance to get a finish at the rim. Plus standing layup needs to be at certain range or they won’t attempt a putback. That includes big wings or guards. We don’t want Lebron grabbing a rebound under the hoop and then passing the ball out.
My point being every tendency has a effect on something and realism. But again it’s all player specific and team specific. Another example is a team like the warriors. If looney or Draymond rebound under the hoop I want them looking to kick out to steph or Klay more than finishing. It depends on player and team. That’s the detail.
So, yes I’ll post everything (plays) and record it all so people on PS can also get it when it’s all done.
I hope this post helps answer how difficult it is to post just random ranges as it really varies per player. Hope that all made sense. And I tagged your post but it was meant for everyone as it’s been brought up a few times in this thread. I just wanted to give some context… I just named a few things of importance but really every tendency is extremely important. So I did them all. And a few huge attributes that also had to be done as well… Without the shot iq and few attribute edits players tendencies won’t play out as they should. Shot iq also has ranges and are way to high out of the box! All this stuff was in the tendency thread as well. Just different ranges. High Shot IQ makes players not play like themselves. Depending on player 95 for high volume catch and shoot shooters, 90, 85, 83, 82, 80, 75, 70 are where it needs to be. Big difference in 85, 83, and 82.
I’m actually pretty burned out already of editing. It’s just crazy the lengths we have to go to get real basketball. I look at some things like dunk on drive and totally get why 2k does that and it’s not for the simulation crowd. Lol but it’s annoying and another necessary edit. I actuall also counteract that with slider dunk in traffic tendency at 40 so I see much more realistic drives and finishes instead of highlight real dunks all game.
Sorry for long post but you guys know me by now all my posts are long. :-)
Shot IQ, Play discipline, ISO tendencies, Drive tendencies, and foul tendencies are a must for getting realistic play... Also, contested 3pt shot should be high combined with the shoot gather slider (low) to get the AI to take more 3pters.
Sent from my SM-N960U using TapatalkComment
-
Re: NBA X’s & O’s
I remember a few years back you put me up on how that Shot IQ rating is way to high. It is a game changer when adjusted properly. I know it would be way to much to post all the players tendencies, but curious for examples for some of the players and main tendencies that seemed to improve the gameplay, and playbooks of course 😁Comment
-
Re: NBA X’s & O’s
Great post. And I agree. Im also a stickler for making the CPU play as realistically as possible.
Shot IQ, Play discipline, ISO tendencies, Drive tendencies, and foul tendencies are a must for getting realistic play... Also, contested 3pt shot should be high combined with the shoot gather slider (low) to get the AI to take more 3pters.
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
I’ve found that Contested jumpers didn’t need to be high at all this year for me. But lots of factors though. I’m getting tons of 3’s but that’s with plays entered with spacing (and open jumpers off screens), ball movement from lots of drives and kicks with pass to open man high that it ends up in open jumpers. Plus my 3 point tendencies or pull up tendencies might be higher? Then add to that I got transition 3 spacing with transition spot Vs cut that is getting the cpu a lot of early fast break 3’s that are deadly. Lol! Then I have gone lower than years past with play discipline but not nearly as low as out of the box. Only because of the plays added and getting players to attack of dribble handoffs more. So maybe I don’t need it as high? I also have Cpu at like 35 on contested jumpers so it’s easier for them for more contested makes so I didn’t need to go very high here. Like I said so many factors.
I’m curious when you say high what is high? At low numbers I was still seeing way to many bad shots taken.
On a side note for the thread piggybacking on your iso edits which I agree with and went high on for iso guys and mismatches as well. 2 quick things…
1 - With having plays with concepts built in and there being no series or freelances in the game that mimic today’s game I had to go 92-95-99 for teams run plays. That’s ok though because the majority of plays are freelance with Chicago and pistol actions. Also because some of these actions and concepts are quick, players get into quick ISO’s or PNR at end of play as they should. The 92 run plays teams are for the higher iso teams that use more ISO’s like the nets with Harden, Durant, & Irving. To get even more ISO’s they also have the iso play type as well obviously. At 92 they still use a lot of ISO’s because of the higher iso tendency edits. The other thing and reason is because some of the freelances for teams are so bad and don’t match. For example I don’t want Seth Curry getting post up’s in Philly’s freelance. Yes it happens every time they go into their freelance. It comes off flex action. SMH Thevfreelances are so outdated and it’s why I wish we could change and assign series and freelances to teams to avoid stuff like that. So, the only way is through plays. But because of new motion and plays so fast and smooth this doesn’t slow the game down at all! It’s the exact opposite actually. And like I said before the plays I have added are freelances and concepts mixed with quick hitters, pnr’s, etc. so it flows great at high run plays. I don’t and wouldn’t go below 92 for anyone and that includes the Thunder. Lol
2 - The 2nd part is along with the higher iso players like Harden or KD who have great signature dribbles editing their signature setup dribble high and their hesitation and no setup low gets some great immersion on their ISO’s. Gamechanger. For some reason the highest they have out of box I believe was 35. You barely see the signature Durant dribble moves. Nothing like seeing it in game. They barely use unless in ISO’s or freelance so both need to be edited high along with iso play type to see it more in game. This also tied into why the 92 run plays for the Nets I talked about in #1.
Just a few little things this post got me thinking about with a few edits I’ve made globally.Last edited by vannwolfhawk; 09-30-2021, 01:54 AM.Basketball Playbooks
http://www.nextplayhoops.comComment
-
Re: NBA X’s & O’s
Interesting… I do the exact opposite. Lol Is that more for cpu vs cpu to get more contested 3’s?
I’ve found that Contested jumpers didn’t need to be high at all this year for me. But lots of factors though. I’m getting tons of 3’s but that’s with plays entered with spacing (and open jumpers off screens), ball movement from lots of drives and kicks with pass to open man high that it ends up in open jumpers. Plus my 3 point tendencies or pull up tendencies might be higher? Then add to that I got transition 3 spacing with transition spot Vs cut that is getting the cpu a lot of early fast break 3’s that are deadly. Lol! Then I have gone lower than years past with play discipline but not nearly as low as out of the box. Only because of the plays added and getting players to attack of dribble handoffs more. So maybe I don’t need it as high? I also have Cpu at like 35 on contested jumpers so it’s easier for them for more contested makes so I didn’t need to go very high here. Like I said so many factors.
I’m curious when you say high what is high? At low numbers I was still seeing way to many bad shots taken.
On a side note for the thread piggybacking on your iso edits which I agree with and went high on for iso guys and mismatches as well. 2 quick things…
1 - With having plays with concepts built in and there being no series or freelances in the game that mimic today’s game I had to go 92-95-99 for teams run plays. That’s ok though because the majority of plays are freelance with Chicago and pistol actions. Also because some of these actions and concepts are quick, players get into quick ISO’s or PNR at end of play as they should. The 92 run plays teams are for the higher iso teams that use more ISO’s like the nets with Harden, Durant, & Irving. To get even more ISO’s they also have the iso play type as well obviously. At 92 they still use a lot of ISO’s because of the higher iso tendency edits. The other thing and reason is because some of the freelances for teams are so bad and don’t match. For example I don’t want Seth Curry getting post up’s in Philly’s freelance. Yes it happens every time they go into their freelance. It comes off flex action. SMH Thevfreelances are so outdated and it’s why I wish we could change and assign series and freelances to teams to avoid stuff like that. So, the only way is through plays. But because of new motion and plays so fast and smooth this doesn’t slow the game down at all! It’s the exact opposite actually. And like I said before the plays I have added are freelances and concepts mixed with quick hitters, pnr’s, etc. so it flows great at high run plays. I don’t and wouldn’t go below 92 for anyone and that includes the Thunder. Lol
2 - The 2nd part is along with the higher iso players like Harden or KD who have great signature dribbles editing their signature setup dribble high and their hesitation and no setup low gets some great immersion on their ISO’s. Gamechanger. For some reason the highest they have out of box I believe was 35. You barely see the signature Durant dribble moves. Nothing like seeing it in game. They barely use unless in ISO’s or freelance so both need to be edited high along with iso play type to see it more in game. This also tied into why the 92 run plays for the Nets I talked about in #1.
Just a few little things this post got me thinking about with a few edits I’ve made globally.
This way I'm getting more 3pt attempts in the game by the AI (30- 37 range) while shooting a decent percentage.
I also had to put a cap on all the drive and layup tendencies. Due to the fact that it seems that the game is semi-hardcoded to attack the basket (some players had 99 drive tendency like Jerian Grant)....So by lowering the drive tendencies and putting a low floor (55) for "dish to open man" Im getting more drive and kick with more 3pt attempts on closeout by the defenders.
I'm a differently try your 92, 95, 99 Run play tendency. Right now I have run plays on a range from 80 to 99. 99 I give to slower pace teams.
Sent from my SM-N960U using TapatalkComment
-
Re: NBA X’s & O’s
Yea I have high contested 3pt and midrange (cap around 60-70 for mid range shooters) because I want more "bad" 3pt shots either off the dribble or on a close out. Seems like the cpu has to register that they are open before it shoots a 3.
This way I'm getting more 3pt attempts in the game by the AI (30- 37 range) while shooting a decent percentage.
I also had to put a cap on all the drive and layup tendencies. Due to the fact that it seems that the game is semi-hardcoded to attack the basket (some players had 99 drive tendency like Jerian Grant)....So by lowering the drive tendencies and putting a low floor (55) for "dish to open man" Im getting more drive and kick with more 3pt attempts on closeout by the defenders.
I'm a differently try your 92, 95, 99 Run play tendency. Right now I have run plays on a range from 80 to 99. 99 I give to slower pace teams.
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
But I agree and see what your looking for with cpu contests as in real nba there are a lot of contests. I go higher for stars or stepback guys but don’t like it for a few reasons. The cpu never makes and it seems it registers as 99-100% contested, and it triggers contested animations some that aren’t great. I do have higher spot up 3’s especially for wing players though. So many ways to skin a cat. I find it interesting how others do things to accomplish the same things. Good stuff!
I also have pretty much a low ceiling of 55 as well with a few guys lower. 95 the high. 75-85-95 for pg’s. Wings 65-85 typically. Obviously player and team specific as well.
The run plays is with the better plays and bad freelances that don’t match teams play styles. Plus more ISO’s for high iso teams. But it’s more to get rid of the freelances more than anything.Basketball Playbooks
http://www.nextplayhoops.comComment
-
Re: NBA X’s & O’s
So I have 25 as top with high contested shot guys at 30. I’m still seeing a lot of contested shots. Play discipline and shot iq factor in here though as well. As I’m sure you know Shot iq is how fast they recognize an opening for a shot. So for spot up shooters or guys shooting coming off screens 90-95 shot iq. I then go higher on spot up drives so they attack on long closeouts if no shot is taken. But I can see why you go higher and I might end up going there and nice part of scales is I can mass edit whole league to a new high if necessary up to new ceiling if necessary. But again I have been 25-30 high contest. I’m sure my sliders play a factor as well…
But I agree and see what your looking for with cpu contests as in real nba there are a lot of contests. I go higher for stars or stepback guys but don’t like it for a few reasons. The cpu never makes and it seems it registers as 99-100% contested, and it triggers contested animations some that aren’t great. I do have higher spot up 3’s especially for wing players though. So many ways to skin a cat. I find it interesting how others do things to accomplish the same things. Good stuff!
I also have pretty much a low ceiling of 55 as well with a few guys lower. 95 the high. 75-85-95 for pg’s. Wings 65-85 typically. Obviously player and team specific as well.
The run plays is with the better plays and bad freelances that don’t match teams play styles. Plus more ISO’s for high iso teams. But it’s more to get rid of the freelances more than anything.
Yea I didn't know that insight of shotIQ. I kind of thought it ment the higher the shotIQ the smarter shots the player will take. But the way you look at it makes more sense.
I'm still trying to figure out how to get more TO in the game without butchering the pass and steal sliders. Charges are good, but just can't seem to get into the 13-17 TO range a game.
Would like to see more unforced TO such as traveling. I lowered the pass accuracy slider to like 25 and the CPU still kind of passes like prime Jason Kidd lol...what I do see is stupid catch animation in where the player receiving the pass kind of jumps up and slows down.
But for now I have to increase the steal and hands slider to just get more TO in general to get realistic shot attempts for the total game.
Sent from my SM-N960U using TapatalkComment
-
Re: NBA X’s & O’s
Great insight man! I can tell you're a coach.
Yea I didn't know that insight of shotIQ. I kind of thought it ment the higher the shotIQ the smarter shots the player will take. But the way you look at it makes more sense.
I'm still trying to figure out how to get more TO in the game without butchering the pass and steal sliders. Charges are good, but just can't seem to get into the 13-17 TO range a game.
Would like to see more unforced TO such as traveling. I lowered the pass accuracy slider to like 25 and the CPU still kind of passes like prime Jason Kidd lol...what I do see is stupid catch animation in where the player receiving the pass kind of jumps up and slows down.
But for now I have to increase the steal and hands slider to just get more TO in general to get realistic shot attempts for the total game.
Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
You can also up slider tendency play passing lanes or go for on ball steals but I actually put that at 5 for user and 15 for cpu as I hate the 1 hand PNR interceptions. So I do through player tendencies instead as well as hands slider.Basketball Playbooks
http://www.nextplayhoops.comComment
-
Re: NBA X’s & O’s
If a guy is a shooter and driver I like to lower it to 83-85 depending because I don’t want him to pull EVERYTIME and not drive. I want more balance. But stepback and pull up guys I want to recognize when they are open quicker to shoot on drives without contests. Plus it triggers them to use a stepback move to create space and take a open shot rather than a contested one if that makes sense. So it’s balancing shot iq with contest and the other things like play discipline.Basketball Playbooks
http://www.nextplayhoops.comComment
-
Re: NBA X’s & O’s
What I do is up pass accuracy to eliminate those bad passes and catch animations. Think of drift passes and how good nba players are at passing. Then I lower hands to 15 for both cpu and user. That gives awesome tip and loose ball rebounds that go out of bounds sometimes and cause hustle plays. It also causes turnovers.
You can also up slider tendency play passing lanes or go for on ball steals but I actually put that at 5 for user and 15 for cpu as I hate the 1 hand PNR interceptions. So I do through player tendencies instead as well as hands slider.
If so, then this is pretty good. I can do a global player edit and lower everyone's "hands" rating to get more fumble passes and loose ball action.
Sent from my SM-N960U using TapatalkComment
Comment