Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

[Goffs]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

Awesome post lurker!

[dipset2050]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

dipset2050
Rookie
OVR: 0
Join Date: Oct 2004

^Rookie

Great post BTW

LOL!!! Nice.

A "rookie" in status only, my friend - but I knew what he was referring to. As the post above me mentions, I'm a lurker

I will post more as to rid myself of such tags.

Thanks for your post.

[RR_Superstar]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

Great post. Very solid post.

Also the majority of people claim they "know" sports or "know" basketball. But in essence they only know the basics. Da_Czar shows us all in his very informative videos that NBA2K11 will kick you butt on any level if you get away from making smart plays and playing the sport and not a video game (especially on the simulation levels).

Also I find many people think they are "sim" but in essence they are not and they can't handle getting crushed by the CPU....where a lot of the sim community get excited when they play 10 games and eek out 1 win.

2k is hard...I came from Live and I am having trouble adjusting but with some sliders and adapting my game and learning the iso motion and the post up moves..im getting better.

Your post is one of the best of all time....I applaud you.

[the_future420]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

Agreed - a lot of the posts state the game is the best they've ever played BUT........

And there is nothing wrong with that but its another thing all together to say that in X game I shot 4-20 with Kobe so the game is flawed or that EVERY NIGHT I MUST HAVE 50 fastbreak points with GS AND win the game. Yet these same people want a challenge. You can't have it both ways.

If you look into the heart of the posts that are on here - it's a lot of complaining about things they WANT to do 2K to solve for them when they can solve them themselves - as you stated with sliders.

You're speaking in extremes here though, dipset. I know you're embellishing a bit to get the gist of your post to really resonate but I've said it before and I've said it again. The game is great. Best sports game I've ever played. Yet still, out of the box it had minor flaws that could be worked on. Prior to the "patch" that came out I played 3 games with Golden State. In none of those games was I able to muster more than 12 fast break points. That, to me, told me that fastbreaks needed some adjusting because realistically GS averaged 23 FB pts/game. For me not to be able to get more than half that total even once in 3 games with them was all I needed to see.

[fffffffff9]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

The sim sliders sucked.

Inside and mid-range sliders were too high, and the three-pointers were set at a ridiculous 10-15% rate instead of 35-40.

A couple tweeks and it's fixed, but you can't use custom sliders in some of the game modes...

I don't know if it's different now with the new roster, but I have to seriously questions anyone's observational skills when they say there were getting realistic stats with sim sliders out of the box...

[jrivera34]

Post of the decade my friend!

For me personally, if I purchase a new sports game and win my first game I start to worry :-) I think I lost my first 10 or so games in MLB the show this year and I loved every minute of it. Could have been that I play with the Mets but that is another conversation.

I actually didn't realize that the latest roster update made the game easier until just reading this post and recalling my game last night.

I played NBA 2k11 the first 3 days of release, lost every game I played and the next time I played was yesterday when I downloaded the latest roster and won by 15+ with the Knicks!

Any way, back to the original post. Video games are all about the money these days and it really stinks. Devs probably feel that if their customers can't win most of their games they will lose sales. People complained for years that NFL 2k was too hard and Madden was just so much better. Why, because the could live out their dreams of breaking the all time passing records within the first week where in 2k they could barely move the ball.

Maybe there should be a group of honest gamers on this site which review the complaints, suggestions, etc. and put the legit ones in a "for developers" forum. It is great that they are listening and adjusting but they need to listen to the right people and not those that just speak the loudest.

[jrivera34]

You're speaking in extremes here though, dipset. I know you're embellishing a bit to get the gist of your post to really resonate but I've said it before and I've said it again. The game is great. Best sports game I've ever played. Yet still, out of the box it had minor flaws that could be worked on. Prior to the "patch" that came out I played 3 games with Golden State. In none of those games was I able to muster more than 12 fast break points. That, to me, told me that fastbreaks needed some adjusting because realistically GS averaged 23 FB pts/game. For me not to be able to get more than half that total even once in 3 games with them was all I needed to see.

3 games? Isn't this part of the problem we are talking about? I don't follow GS but just because they average 23FB pts/ per game doesn't mean they have to come close to that number each night. You may have 12FB points in 3 games but 40 in the next 3. Or better yet, maybe you will get closer to 23 once you have played 20 games.

[Mos1ted]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

Excellent post OP!! But allow me to play devil's advocate for a quick second....


I agree with you that gamers should give a game some time first before bashing a game or saying that this has to be fixed or that, but what about a gamer who knows the subject of the game very well?

For example, I served in the military. When I play first person shooters, it doesn't take me 100 hours to determine whether a game is realistic or not. I can determine that in 10 minutes based on personal experiences. The same holds true in basketball. It's a sport that I grew up watching and playing for the past 20 years. I don't need 100 hours with a basketball game to determine what elements of basketball they got right and what elements of basketball I feel they got wrong. If this were MLB: The Show or FIFA, I would give the game some more time because I'm not that familiar with soccer or baseball. I can't say that what transpires in the game is realistic or not because I don't have enough personal experiences in those sports nor do I watch enough games on TV to determine that. I would have to rely on opinions from gamers who are more familiar with those sports to determine if that particular game represents the real life sport or not.

I agree, moaning about accessories and shoe colors is a bit juvenile, but making legitimate gripes about the gameplay after only a few days can be warranted in many instances as well. When I wrote my blogs on this site a few days ago, it was after a week of playing the game. Although I noticed most of what I perceived as flaws immediately, I took a few days to get my thoughts well organized so that I could convey what was on my mind effectively. I had some detractors, but the majority of my blog comments were in agreement with what I wrote.

As for this "patch" that came hidden with the new rosters, this is my take on it. It's funny how some are upset about the changes that were made after just one day, but complain when gamers were upset about the game after just one day after it launched. That's the pot calling the kettle black in my opinion.

I'll admit, the "patch" took me by surprised at first, and as much as I disliked the simulation setting before, I preferred it over the gameplay changes.....initially..... Rather than female dog and moan, I decided to reanalyze the changes (through instant replay) and compared what I was seeing against my interpretation of NBA basketball. What I found is that the game played more realistically than it did before. True it's easier to get by a defender now, but when watching a real NBA game, you'll see that guards can get by their man with ease quite regularly in the NBA. Having to continuously try to crossover your opponent just to go by him isn't a frequent element of the NBA. For that, go watch And 1 mixtapes.

In the real NBA, teams rely heavily on help defense to prevent perimeter players from scoring at will in the paint. This is why a Derrick Rose doesn't lead the league in scoring. This is why Rondo gets criticized for not having a consistent jumpshot. While these players can get to the rim at will in real life, they have to contend with help defense when they get there. That element finally exists after the "patch" where it was nonexistent before. Before, the game cheaply tried to prevent easy points in the paint by making it for difficult to get by a defender. When I first saw that I couldn't get by Glenn Davis on the perimeter due to excessive contact animations, I knew the sim setting was flawed (hence my blog).

Don't get me wrong, I want my games to be challenging while replicating its respective sport or genre realistically. NBA 2K10 was a joke in terms of it presenting a challenge to the user, even on Hall of Fame, but the way that NBA 2K11 played on Simulation at launch was not the way to do it. Thanks to instant replay, I was able to see how different aspects of the game were manipulated to make the game more challenging. Why this made fans of the sim setting happy that the game forced them to use strategy), they were oblivious to the fact that they were essentially getting cheated by the AI on nearly every possession.

What the "patch" did was addressed what I felt like were the biggest flaws in the game initially when trying to make the game play more realistically. The game now plays out more dynamically (while still producing true to life stat lines). And correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the object of sports to win? So why are gamers upset when they achieve that? That's like an Army platoon being sent to Afghanistan, but upset because they found Bin Laden. I'd rather win a game using my basketball IQ and making solid decisions within the game to pull out the victory, than lose doing the exact same thing but having the CPU beat me due to design flaws.



The game may seem easier at first, but take a minute to analyze how the game transpired. Like I mentioned to a poster in another thread, put the game on All-Star sim, and see if you can dominate with a Derrick Rose against a good defensive team. If the CPU is unable to stop you, and you're able to score at will the entire game, this yes the game is worse off than it was before. But if the CPU intelligently adapts, calls double teams, runs a zone, changes their defensive matchups to counter your D. Rose attack, how is that not a better alternative than the way the game played before?

This is why attributes and ratings are important. It is how a sports game determines what a particular player should be able to do. If I'm playing a sports game and consistently see players playing "above" their abilities, I don't call that a challenge, I call that cheating.

[dipset2050]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

You're speaking in extremes here though, dipset. I know you're embellishing a bit to get the gist of your post to really resonate but I've said it before and I've said it again. The game is great. Best sports game I've ever played. Yet still, out of the box it had minor flaws that could be worked on. Prior to the "patch" that came out I played 3 games with Golden State. In none of those games was I able to muster more than 12 fast break points. That, to me, told me that fastbreaks needed some adjusting because realistically GS averaged 23 FB pts/game. For me not to be able to get more than half that total even once in 3 games with them was all I needed to see.

Future - I'm not saying that the game doesn't need adjusting. I'm also not saying that the fastbreak game is a little too tight - it is, as you increase the difficulty harder to get those points. But in the same regard that I feel that the difficulty opens that particular part of the game up (fastbreaks), there are people who are calling for wholesale changes and not understanding the repercussions of all these requests. It's one thing for someone like you to say that it needs tweaking and another for people to same it needs to be changed completely b/c they played 2 games and both games has 20 turnovers and only 10 FBPs. We asked for the CPU to cheat less and play better D on the higher difficulties, we get that and now people aren't happy again. But I don't think they ever will be.

All I'm asking for is more time to pass before changes are made and for people to try and actually find a setting that works for them. 2K still needs lobbies and the like for us to compete online and they are lacking in that regard. But I feel people are abusing the relationship we share with the devs to cater the game to THEIR type of basketball and not the complete vision 2K had for their game.

Thanks for your response!

[RGmoney]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

Articulate, relevant, meaningful post...everyone should read this...goes for just about all games anymore...well said chief

Agree. Just an excellent post all the way around.

[pdawg17]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

Operation Sports killed Elite 11...many of you were happy about that but considering we will probably not see Elite until Elite 12 I would have gotten Elite 11 for its controls (I try to get both games every year)...

[RnRexpress3423]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

Great post and I totally agree as others have. We have complained for years about how we wanted a sim bball game and we finally get one. Yet people whine and complain about little things about why all their passes are getting picked off. Well here I have a simple solution..STOP THROWING BAD PASSES lol. Great game 2K and if you can capture the NFL atmosphere/experience like you did with NBA 2K11 then man o man I can not wait for you to be able to make an NFL 2K game again.

[Tomba]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

I'm going to say that giving the game only a 9 already hurt it. i expect that from other sites because well they do not specialize in sports game and even those sites have given nba 2k11 higher?

Mind boggling. game is absolutely incredible as is.

I played it recently after fifa 11 and was like no...NBA 2k11 captures the sport of basketball like no other sports game that tries to capture their sport genre.

10 hands down.

[Disappoint]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

Has anyone mentioned how the "sim" sliders that come with the game are deeply flawed and do not provide the best simulation experience? Sorry guys, I don't want to see Derrick Fisher stopping Aaron Brooks from driving by just standing in front of him. That isn't realistic to me, Derrick Fisher couldn't do that in real life if AB's shoe strings were tied together.

[LouAllDay]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

Amazing post man. 2K made this year what every true baller wanted for years, a true simulation game of basketball. I don't get how the hell guys can argue it being "too" Sim... Are you kidding me?
Too Sim means too realistic; how can you even complain about a simulation being more realistic than you expected? x)