Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

[statum71]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

Nice post mna. I don't cry for patches.

If I don't like the way a game plays I adjust my sliders. And it affects nobody but me because I don't play online.

I thought it was fine before. Was seeing about 6 or 7 dunks a game, between both teams. About right.

[magicman32]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

The OP makes some very good points.

[eko718]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

Nice post mna. I don't cry for patches.

If I don't like the way a game plays I adjust my sliders. And it affects nobody but me because I don't play online.

I thought it was fine before. Was seeing about 6 or 7 dunks a game, between both teams. About right.

That does sound about right and that was my experience also until the update. I just played the Heat against Orlando and while the other stats were generally good, I was able to dunk 10 times with Lebron alone, and over 20 times as a team.

[mnus03]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

The problem is, is that the game was using parlor tricks to be what so many of us call sim. Which in reality is just manufactured stat lines.

There will always be two groups of sim enthusiasts on here. One's bottom line is stat-lines, rosters, play-books and strategy. The other groups bottom line is an almost unhealthy sensitivity for what feels like basketball. I think this second group is born from real life time on the court and the gym.

To the second group the parlor tricks that are being used by the devs to create "realism" are so glaringly obvious that they cant bring themselves to ignore them. Its that these tricks are the very thing that is supposedly bringing realism to the game that irks them so much.

Often times i think the first group sees something that's changed that they disliked about a previous experience, like the game slowing down or less drives happening, and are just thrilled that there pet peeves are absent. And don't really question why these things aren't occurring anymore and if its for legitimate reasons. What if its not though? If you get a more accurate level of drives in the lane but for reasons that don't make it so in real life is that any better then the discrepancy? Not for me. It might even be worse.

Both groups can think in frustration "that would never happen". While one is looking at game mechanics and CPU intelligence the other is looking at boxscores and the rate of fouls.

IMHO game mechanics and CPU intelligence should be the driving force in creating the sim experience as well as the driving force in creating healthy boxscores and proper FG%.

The parlor tricks are a way out and are found in every sports sim. And sadly at this point they are probably a necessity but i find it a little worrisome that people can't even admit that the Tricks are there. And even will make a call to the ignorant little brats that are whining, to keep their mouths shut and learn to play the game on casual. This is stupid, and i find it funny that we get so intrenched on different sides in a certain aspect of the game we like or dislike that we can't even really talk about it anymore. To me the whole point is for the game to evolve into something with less and less parlor tricks.

the truth is, is that there just cant be a really satisfying sim experience until 2k can accomplish the very difficult task of implementing both a more intelligent, fluid, and adaptable AI and also a more intuitive and comprehensive game mechanic. I might naively believe we have a part to play in them achieving that so on a certain level (although i recognize the petty stuff like a color tint not being quite right or not enough sock options) im pleased to see the "whining".

If you cant see the tricks 2k11 uses to create a supposedly sim experience then yeah it feels really fun. I kidded myself for all but a couple of days. Then i couldn't ignore the nagging

[2kfanatic]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports "ruin" NBA2K11?

Damn that was good, this thread made my day lol. <dreamcast speech="" here=""> (insert dreamcast speech here) and I really hope they don't alienate us true 2k fans. We chose 2k over live since 2k1 because the game is the only true basketball sim game so I hope that they deliver the most possible sim game they can give us.</dreamcast>

[LingeringRegime]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports &quot;ruin&quot; NBA2K11?

I have made it an unwritten rule of sorts to stay away from the Sports Forums here once a sports game is released that I am enjoying. Nothing like reading what is broken when I am having a great time with the game.

[Whomario]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports &quot;ruin&quot; NBA2K11?

I am absolutely baffled that people still go all "they have different game styles !!!" when all there is to it are different slider-presets that aren´t even that hard to come up with. It´s not rocket science that lower shooting sliders makes for a tougher time to hit shots or that higher defensive sliders make for a tougher time to generate offense overall.

It also baffles me how peopl can stand here and say "sim was so great" when all it did was artificially keep scores low and even when (if) you ever figured it out the CPU still couldn´t score worth crap on superstar.

Seriously, it´s still only sliders, not gamestyles.

[fearwhatnow]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports &quot;ruin&quot; NBA2K11?

^^ I decided to stay away from slider tweaking mania this year.The game is pure sim for me.All i've done was tweaking the shot success(+),blocking(-),fatigue(-),dunks(-) and fouls(+).There is really no need to mess with the other sliders when you're changing sliders from sim "style".I'm not playing with top teams,struggling on my Knicks association (2-5, only one time scored beyond 90 points...) and i'm really impressed with 2k's product this year.When i'm reading threads/posts like "omg cpu makes unrealistic comebacks" or "put clutch on 0" or "2k's update changed the gameplay completely" i'm moving on other threads.This year i realized that i was forcing too much the inside game in 2k10.Now i'm running plays with patience, i run quick plays,positional plays,anything i have on my playbook and trying to find the open mid range shot.Also the adaptive AI is impressive and forces you to randomize your offense and use your tactical imagination.

[fffffffff9]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports &quot;ruin&quot; NBA2K11?

Great post, but it glosses over the inherent legitimacy in what people are saying.

People just suck at complaining.

It's not that passing is too hard, it's just balanced poorly. Too many steals, not enough deflections out-of-bounds, and way too many difficult passes are being completed by players with poor pass/hand ratings.

The sim sliders are also really bad. And I see a bunch of people using them, that's gotta be a huge source of the complaints.

And on and on like that.

Whatever is in this roster update hasn't addressed any of these root problems.

[fearwhatnow]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports &quot;ruin&quot; NBA2K11?

Great post, but it glosses over the inherent legitimacy in what people are saying.

People just suck at complaining.

It's not that passing is too hard, it's just balanced poorly. Too many steals, not enough deflections out-of-bounds, and way too many difficult passes are being completed by players with poor pass/hand ratings.

The sim sliders are also really bad. And I see a bunch of people using them, that's gotta be a huge source of the complaints.

And on and on like that.

Whatever is in this roster update hasn't addressed any of these root problems.

I see many deflections out of bounds and players with poor pass/hand rating can't even pass on a teammate just 2m away or dribble with success.I see this all the time in my Knicks association.I've played pro basketball and that's how passing is in real life basketball.You need to make the perfect pass, the receiver must help the passer by moving away from his matchup to receive the pass or else the defender will punish every little mistake.Use total control passing.That's why 2k has total control passing this year.Just watch Czar's video explaining the passing system.

[cjocan]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports &quot;ruin&quot; NBA2K11?

I understand about a potential game-wrecking patch, but what can be harmful about a roster update? Asking because you said, "luckily...have not downloaded the new rosters yet,".

I said this because, to my knowledge, the game changes came into effect through/at the time of the roster update on 10/13...

[sneezor01]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports &quot;ruin&quot; NBA2K11?

Obviously you have never seen AB play against Fisher in real life. He makes him look like an amateur, half of his highlight real is blowing past fisher and scoring.

Also, on the default settings even if you have the angle to beat your man if even his outstretched arm is still in front of you it forces the 2 player bump animation and you have to start all over again.

You do realize that in a full game AB when in the game (real life)brings the ball up about 90% of the time and most of the time he finishes with about 16 -20 PPG right? now if you take the avg. includes that he may go to the line like 6-8 times a game and makes 4-6 FT a game that means that he scores 12-14 ppg off of FG. Sprinkle some called plays for open jumpshots 3-5 FGs (6-10 pts) that means that he may only blow by fisher and score 3 or 4 times in a game. That doesn't mean that it should happen every play.

[Mos1ted]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports &quot;ruin&quot; NBA2K11?

You do realize that in a full game AB when in the game (real life)brings the ball up about 90% of the time and most of the time he finishes with about 16 -20 PPG right? now if you take the avg. includes that he may go to the line like 6-8 times a game and makes 4-6 FT a game that means that he scores 12-14 ppg off of FG. Sprinkle some called plays for open jumpshots 3-5 FGs (6-10 pts) that means that he may only blow by fisher and score 3 or 4 times in a game. That doesn't mean that it should happen every play.

But that's assuming that AB is going for a layup and dunk attempt all the time. Just because you beat a man off the dribble doesn't mean you're going to have a easy opportunity for a layup or dunk. This is where help D comes in. I can beat my man off the dribble every possession, but they are 4 other guys on the court who will step in to try to impede my progress beyond that. I could be a selfish player and try to force up a bad layup or I can dish it back out to an open shooter. I'm sure AB does the smart thing and chooses to pass it back out more often than shoot in traffic.

[Disappoint]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports &quot;ruin&quot; NBA2K11?

There is literally no way Fisher can stop AB from blowing by him at will. You are really underestimating how fast he is in comparison. As the poster above stated, there is this little thing called help defense. AB is 6 feet tall, how the hell is he going to get an easy layup every play with Bynum and Gasol in the paint? He is good at getting layups off in traffic but he's not THAT good.

Fisher being able to shift/slide over and bump AB every time he's about to blow by him is in no way simulation.

[Eclipso]

Re: Has or will Operation Sports &quot;ruin&quot; NBA2K11?

Great post man.