Bumping and canimations

[Jesus]

Re: Bumping and canimations

In trying to mimic the Trail Blazers which is a team that switches a lot I played with help defense at 80. It might have changed what triggered the help but the actual help came like a switch, like they were picking up a man instead of dealing with a scoring threat. One of my biggest issues with 2k10 was how the CPU never blocked shots even when you played people who scored 70%+ of their points in the paint

I cant say you didnt experience something that I havent witnessed and is possible, but i can totally agree with what I highlighted.

[BroMontana82]

Re: Bumping and canimations

what are your thoughts on "intense D"? it seems like i have 0 control over it with help D in controller settings on 0. any time there is bumping or "intense D" it seems like a canimation. it should be a lot more responsive and natural imo.

[BegBy]

Re: Bumping and canimations

what are your thoughts on "intense D"? it seems like i have 0 control over it with help D in controller settings on 0. any time there is bumping or "intense D" it seems like a canimation. it should be a lot more responsive and natural imo.

You don't need to use it. You can lock down guards with bigs if you use the shot stick button to guess where they are going. Even if you guess wrong just use the normal player control and stay on your man. The bumping and canimations play defense for you, and if you do use intense D you lose stamina faster than the player you are guarding. Yet another awesome feature in this year's edition!!!

[Murkurial]

Re: Bumping and canimations

This makes the game incredibly annoying against another human opponent.

I can't tell you how many time I'll get around someone with Rose, only for them to somehow slide right back over to get between me and the basket. Not to mention when you're dribbling up the court, the guy is attempting to steal the ball and consequently climbs all over your back and they never call anything.

[BegBy]

Re: Bumping and canimations

While it has been discussed in this thread at length, and others just like it, the ugliness that is 'realistic/necessary bumping' is now really being brought to light by the same people who advocate it.

The tactic of just bumping a player back over half-court or out of bounds is becoming rampant during online play. Also sliding into position with a big as a secondary defender (and by sliding I mean the full on slide where the player literally doesn't move his feet for half the length of the key) is also being largely criticized due to how the primary defender has a good chance to steal the ball during the animation. The latter being less frequent as we as players have no control over it, but it does happen a whole lot.

I haven't played 2k 11 in a while because it's just kinda bleh for me, and bumping is more than just bumping. It's the primary line of defense, and when you circumvent it you're left with almost no defense at all. Also fouls are hard to come by now, since you can sig gather/layup/spin layup/dunk all the way to 80 pip after you get past the bumping.

I hope the patch does some real work on it though, as it pretty much will define how defense will be played, and to a lesser extent, offense.

[Mos1ted]

Re: Bumping and canimations

Two keys to being a good onball defender: lateral quickness and anticipation. The quickness rating in NBA 2K11 is suppose to determine a player's lateral ability while on ball defense is suppose to determine a player's ability to anticipate and counter a dribbler's moves. So the attributes are in place in 2K11. It's the execution, or the A.I., that is at fault here. The bumping is essentially a band-aid to cover up this flaw.

I don't know if this is patchable or not, but I offer up this solution:

Give the CPU AI the ability to "read" the ballhandler's attributes. If I'm controlling Derrick Rose, and I have a 99 Quickness Rating, plus a 98 ball handler rating (just guessing here, I don't know his actual ratings in the game off hand), the defender should then be able to "read" his own ratings (let's say 80 quickness, and 75 onball defense) and know to sag off and not play me so close. There's no way that the defender should be able to play Derrick Rose straight up. The other 4 defenders should also be able to "read" this matchup and anticipate me blowing by the defender so that they can be in better position to defend the paint because that's likely where I'm going to go with the ball once I get by him. Or at least send a secondary defender who can slide in to draw a charge.

This is where charging desperately needs to come back. Without a charging penalty, there's no risk in being overly aggressive with isomotion.

On the flip side, if the defender is able to "read" the fact that he's got the advantage, then he should be all in the ballhandlers face trying to disrupt him (i.e get the steal, force him to pick up his dribble, force a bad pass or a bad shot)

Also since some resemblance of shading is present in the game, the AI should use this more often than it does. For those not in the know, shading is a technique to force the ballhandler to only go one direction, ideally to his weak hand side. Since there is an offhand dribbling rating, allow the AI to "read" this as well.

I think the AI in this game does a good job at using it's strengths on offense but doesn't do so on defense.

[BegBy]

Re: Bumping and canimations

Two keys to being a good onball defender: lateral quickness and anticipation. The quickness rating in NBA 2K11 is suppose to determine a player's lateral ability while on ball defense is suppose to determine a player's ability to anticipate and counter a dribbler's moves. So the attributes are in place in 2K11. It's the execution, or the A.I., that is at fault here. The bumping is essentially a band-aid to cover up this flaw.

I don't know if this is patchable or not, but I offer up this solution:

Give the CPU AI the ability to "read" the ballhandler's attributes. If I'm controlling Derrick Rose, and I have a 99 Quickness Rating, plus a 98 ball handler rating (just guessing here, I don't know his actual ratings in the game off hand), the defender should then be able to "read" his own ratings (let's say 80 quickness, and 75 onball defense) and know to sag off and not play me so close. There's no way that the defender should be able to play Derrick Rose straight up. The other 4 defenders should also be able to "read" this matchup and anticipate me blowing by the defender so that they can be in better position to defend the paint because that's likely where I'm going to go with the ball once I get by him. Or at least send a secondary defender who can slide in to draw a charge.

This is where charging desperately needs to come back. Without a charging penalty, there's no risk in being overly aggressive with isomotion.

On the flip side, if the defender is able to "read" the fact that he's got the advantage, then he should be all in the ballhandlers face trying to disrupt him (i.e get the steal, force him to pick up his dribble, force a bad pass or a bad shot)

Also since some resemblance of shading is present in the game, the AI should use this more often than it does. For those not in the know, shading is a technique to force the ballhandler to only go one direction, ideally to his weak hand side. Since there is an offhand dribbling rating, allow the AI to "read" this as well.

I think the AI in this game does a good job at using it's strengths on offense but doesn't do so on defense.

I thought quickness was your agility while moving, or how 'quick' you maneuver.

I decided in a last ditch effort to make the game playable for me to test some ratings out. I lowered every players ( Celtics and Lakers as they prove to be good solid test subjects) on ball defense and defensive awareness to 25. I also turned the on ball D slider to 0. The results were horrible and arbitrary. All it does is make guys more prone to looking stupid on a move. They just get their ankles broke a little more often, and it's very playground looking. Gasol can still D up Rondo on the perimeter way, way too well. Still tons of bumping. Mind you, he gets beat, but not realistically. Rondo shouldn't have to do anything but literally run by Gasol. He is soooo quick, and Gasol...well he isn't.

As a defender it sucks too. I hate the fact that the cpu doesn't take me off the bounce. They can't. I can stand still and they will bang into me, and even if they do get by a second defender (not helping, just in the area) will suck them in and cut it off. It's not fun and it eliminates a huge aspect of the game. Like...huge.

Triple threat...the cpu will still cut you off 50-60% of the time. They just guess right. It's how the game is programmed. Second defenders still slide into you, or you get sucked into them. The best way for them to patch it is to make the animation where you snake by the one that is used more often, or exclusively. Unless they are doing major changes that is. I welcome a full on overhaul, but I doubt it. To be honest better animations would be as good as a full fix anyway - as it would allow them to focus on other areas of the game that need attention. Since the animations are already there, it might prove to be a great solution. Still playing 2k 10 until the patch comes out, for now. I hope the patch is good because boy do I want a basketball title.

[jeebs9]

Re: Bumping and canimations

I like all the bumping... 2k9 really real was bad in this department.

[Colts18]

Re: Bumping and canimations

I like all the bumping... 2k9 really real was bad in this department.

But bumping isn't realistic. 2K needs to improve the help defense if they are trying to limit easy buckets.

[stillfeelme]

Re: Bumping and canimations

I thought quickness was your agility while moving, or how 'quick' you maneuver.

I decided in a last ditch effort to make the game playable for me to test some ratings out. I lowered every players ( Celtics and Lakers as they prove to be good solid test subjects) on ball defense and defensive awareness to 25. I also turned the on ball D slider to 0. The results were horrible and arbitrary. All it does is make guys more prone to looking stupid on a move. They just get their ankles broke a little more often, and it's very playground looking. Gasol can still D up Rondo on the perimeter way, way too well. Still tons of bumping. Mind you, he gets beat, but not realistically. Rondo shouldn't have to do anything but literally run by Gasol. He is soooo quick, and Gasol...well he isn't.

As a defender it sucks too. I hate the fact that the cpu doesn't take me off the bounce. They can't. I can stand still and they will bang into me, and even if they do get by a second defender (not helping, just in the area) will suck them in and cut it off. It's not fun and it eliminates a huge aspect of the game. Like...huge.

Triple threat...the cpu will still cut you off 50-60% of the time. They just guess right. It's how the game is programmed. Second defenders still slide into you, or you get sucked into them. The best way for them to patch it is to make the animation where you snake by the one that is used more often, or exclusively. Unless they are doing major changes that is. I welcome a full on overhaul, but I doubt it. To be honest better animations would be as good as a full fix anyway - as it would allow them to focus on other areas of the game that need attention. Since the animations are already there, it might prove to be a great solution. Still playing 2k 10 until the patch comes out, for now. I hope the patch is good because boy do I want a basketball title.

What I have found that helps is lowering the help defense rating for some reason it works in reverse. I found that out in a thread on here. The lower the rating the better the help defense is. Try it in one game and see what you get. I think I have on ball defense at 25 and driving contact at 50 and help defense at 55.

[BegBy]

Re: Bumping and canimations

I like all the bumping... 2k9 really real was bad in this department.

Are you a fan of NBA basketball, or just video games?

[bjones16]

Re: Bumping and canimations

I thought quickness was your agility while moving, or how 'quick' you maneuver.

I decided in a last ditch effort to make the game playable for me to test some ratings out. I lowered every players ( Celtics and Lakers as they prove to be good solid test subjects) on ball defense and defensive awareness to 25. I also turned the on ball D slider to 0. The results were horrible and arbitrary. All it does is make guys more prone to looking stupid on a move. They just get their ankles broke a little more often, and it's very playground looking. Gasol can still D up Rondo on the perimeter way, way too well. Still tons of bumping. Mind you, he gets beat, but not realistically. Rondo shouldn't have to do anything but literally run by Gasol. He is soooo quick, and Gasol...well he isn't.

As a defender it sucks too. I hate the fact that the cpu doesn't take me off the bounce. They can't. I can stand still and they will bang into me, and even if they do get by a second defender (not helping, just in the area) will suck them in and cut it off. It's not fun and it eliminates a huge aspect of the game. Like...huge.

Triple threat...the cpu will still cut you off 50-60% of the time. They just guess right. It's how the game is programmed. Second defenders still slide into you, or you get sucked into them. The best way for them to patch it is to make the animation where you snake by the one that is used more often, or exclusively. Unless they are doing major changes that is. I welcome a full on overhaul, but I doubt it. To be honest better animations would be as good as a full fix anyway - as it would allow them to focus on other areas of the game that need attention. Since the animations are already there, it might prove to be a great solution. Still playing 2k 10 until the patch comes out, for now. I hope the patch is good because boy do I want a basketball title.

How do you feel post past now?

[Blooddiamond4]

Re: Bumping and canimations

Just started playing online again the other day. The game plays pretty awesome online now. The bumping has been severely toned down. Player movement is smoother and shooting is easier.