Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

[2kfanatic]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

Damn Double-OT loss.

I have more box scores (for bench players) and quarter by quarter stats too if you guys want to see it.

In the end, it was just too much LeBron and too much fatigue. (Actually had it on 10 minute quarters this time).

They got more fouls which is not really surprising haha. Its really wierd that they have more free throw attempts when you clearly drive the ball more to the basket. Oh well I guess that's how life is lol....

[The Fight]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

They got more fouls which is not really surprising haha. Its really wierd that they have more free throw attempts when you clearly drive the ball more to the basket. Oh well I guess that's how life is lol....

Really, they drove more than I did. LeBron in the second half, missed 2 threes and then decided to devour anyone who got in his way, which would have been fine if Wade didn't try to do the same thing. Character got sleeping and just got orally violated by dwade. And 1. It wasn't pretty. Double move to the basket got foul calls too. Odom had 4 fouls in the third quarter for bad help D.

[The Fight]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

Now I sound like a jerk. Just continue to write those tips. They're good points.

P.S.

Why exactly did you put insipid in your title? A pun? An oxymoron? I'm serious and not trying to sound like a jerk. I know its close to an oxymoron but its not. Is there a term for it. I understand what you wrote and it seemed like you were trying to make an oxymoron. Maybe there is a word out there for something that is close to an oxymoron. My English not so good.

I asked my 11th grade english teacher what the specific term is called (she's on twitter!), she said it's a "literary ploy."

I put it there because I wanted people to have a certain feel/emotion before they read the entire post. Also after you've seen enough results, you can tell when people don't read your entire post. They just see the title, skim a couple of lines and then come up with a short-sided opinion. In actuality, those people's action strengthen my point. Those are the kind of people who are looking for a short cut. These people won't nor want to learn anything, they just change the game.

[The Fight]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

When a game is too difficult it is usually a result of me not being good enough as opposed to being overly difficult. While I do lower the difficulty if I am having problems with multiple aspects, if I am struggling with TOV's I do not lower the slider to compensate. First I consider what I am doing wrong. I learn from my mistakes. But I do not do stay at lower difficulties. I learn the game mechanics and move up.

Adjusting the sliders is a way to lower the difficulty in specific areas of the game, but that is not the only purpose. As I said I play association games exclusively. My team are the Wizards. Now I am sure you are aware that they kind of suck. When I play a sports game it is not because I enjoy videogames, it is because I am sports fan, so realism takes precedence over everything else. Including my success. Without adjusting sliders I was not getting realistic results. FG % was off, TOVs were not accurate, too many offensive rebounds, etc. Most importantly I was doing too well.
As the Wizards I was on pace for a 4th place finish (conference, not division). It just did not feel like actual basketball. More often than I like I was getting blocks on perimeter jumpshots. Fouls were never a factor. So I adjusted sliders.

The result after my slider tweaks were: 1.) Most importantly I limped to a 36 win season, 2.) Wall shot 43% from the field but got to the line often, Gil shot 44% (38% from 3), Nick Young was a liability on defense, I excelled in transition but struggled in the halfcourt set pretty often, long story short my stats were pretty close to what you could expect from the Wizards.

Did I lower some of the sliders? Absolutely. Vertical and off. rebounds took big hits (I should add that the majority of the time if I lower AI sliders I do the same to user -- I keep it equal), so did hands and pass accuracy (prior most to's were the result of steals. Now some are the result of wayward passes and dropped passes and it mimics the mix up TO's).

I adjusted several other sliders with the intent of creating a realistic experience. Has nothing to do with winning games. Using the Wizards I should not be winning a bunch of games (realism my man, lol) so if I start winning more than I like I either adjust sliders if my success is due to one aspect, or I boost the difficulty.

You said in your association you are 12-1. Who are you using? If you use a sub par team I would adjust sliders. Knicks and T-Wolves should not be 12-1.

I call plays 90% of the time. I rarely just free flow and try to iso with Wall, because it would not work in real life so it doesn't work in my game. What I do is call plays designed to have Wall coming off P&R hoping for mismatches if I wanna attack.

Point is that the game does not offer the best realism right out of the box.

Stupid game took a lot of energy out of me so let me make this one relatively quick.

As a Knicks, NY Rangers, Mets, Giants fan, I know what it's like to root for teams like the Wizards and get constantly let down. It's a labor of love.

I'm 12-1 with the Hawks. And I resent that Knicks comment. The Knicks were 6-0 when they trade Zach Randolph and Jamal Crawford!

Since I've been playing the association, I have never once missed the playoffs. I don't care if it's the Pistons or the Clippers, I'm making the damn playoffs. 37 win seasons aren't exceptable, even in simulations....

More later, I'm tired.

[teddyballgame78]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

I don't care what anybody says the sliders out of the box are out of whack. Getting the ball picked off just about every pass is pure bs. I mean i understand a bad pass but fast breaking in this game is unrealistic on default settings to say the least.

I use sliders not to make the game easier but to set the game to my interpretation of a realistic experience. Not to mention I tweak the sliders for 8 min quarters.

I think most people here are looking for a realistic experience but I think what everyone interprets as realistic is subjective to ones taste. Some people want Knicks Heat ball from the 90's some want fast break ball like phoenix or golden state.

I guess in the end we should try to respect peoples opinions and ways that they wanna play the game. Not bash them because they don't share the same viewpoints of a realistic basketball experience.

Btw I have played 2k since Dreamcast and I always love the game but this year man it's bliss with sliders of course

[hq3000]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

I asked my 11th grade english teacher what the specific term is called (she's on twitter!), she said it's a "literary ploy."

I put it there because I wanted people to have a certain feel/emotion before they read the entire post. Also after you've seen enough results, you can tell when people don't read your entire post. They just see the title, skim a couple of lines and then come up with a short-sided opinion. In actuality, those people's action strengthen my point. Those are the kind of people who are looking for a short cut. These people won't nor want to learn anything, they just change the game.

Thats great! Thanks. I wasn't trying to be condescending before. My girlfriend has a bad tendency to correct my grammar. I think it rubbed off on me. Thats a good term though.

Back on topic though. This year is the first year I have not had the urge to change sliders. In the years past I used some great sliders from Bizcanos, Flash, etc.. My point is that I never used the sliders as a way to make the easier for me. It was changing specific ways to make the game in a way that felt more organic. I think the majority of the people on this forum feel the same way, but this is a topic that I've seen way too many times on this so this will be the last time I'll talk about it.

A little off topic, I think last year and this year especially I have noticed that sliders are not the only thing that changes the game, but custom rosters make a much larger difference in the way the game plays.

Learning the give and go on a fast break is extremely helpful if anyone is having problems with running it.

[Chessboxer1]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

What I will say is that starting Shannon Brown at the point helps a lot with the D. I had Kobe guarding Arroyo and Monica's fiancee guarded flash. Not a bad idea. Fisher and Barnes didn't get in till the second half during my defensive stand and my 3pt onslaught.
.

Starting Shannon Brown isn't the most realistic of ways to play this game. Also sitting older veterans till the second half and expecting them to produce physically when they're used to getting a certain amount of burn probably wouldn't be a good idea unless you had them riding the virtual exercise bike during the first half. These guys aren't in high school they can't just go when they want.

That being said, i think you kind of showed why some people are upset with your blanket hatred of sliders. The reason a lot of people use sliders is because they want a more reaslistic game experience. If players do stuff they wouldn't normally do in real life, it annoys them to see it happen in the game. Before you attack back, check your associations either now or when you're further into the season and check things like shooting percentages, points in the paint and two or three other stats, go to NBA.com and compare them with the team you're playing with and the league stats.

I know sliders are imperfect, but a lot people who use sliders aren't using them to make the game easier to beat. They're using them because without them the CPU shoots over %50 every game, or Jordan Farmer finishes in the lane every time, or some other thing that is glaringly unrealistic that makes the game less fun.

P.S. the Knicks were 6-5 when they traded Crawford and Randolph get your facts straight.

[luckeeloo]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

On slider adjustments:

I think those of us that do adjust them, as we adjust rosters, and as you yourself adjust coach profiles, game speed and whatever else, there might just be a fundamental disagreement on whether this game plays well by default.

I'm of the opinion that there are serious design flaws in a few departments, and so, I tweak sliders, rosters, and anything else 2K hasn't gotten to patching yet. I'll agree with most of the posters here that you're intentions and your tips are fine, but this idea that messing with the sliders is done solely by people who don't understand or don't employ the basic fundamentals and strategy of basketball is just flat-out wrong.

Most players are tweaking to achieve realism, not to lower difficulty. We could drop to Superstar or All-Star if that was the aim.

The OP marginalizes those of us that adjust sliders right off the bat. It only serves to suffocate the point you're trying to make.

[The Fight]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

Starting Shannon Brown isn't the most realistic of ways to play this game. Also sitting older veterans till the second half and expecting them to produce physically when they're used to getting a certain amount of burn probably wouldn't be a good idea unless you had them riding the virtual exercise bike during the first half. These guys aren't in high school they can't just go when they want.

That being said, i think you kind of showed why some people are upset with your blanket hatred of sliders. The reason a lot of people use sliders is because they want a more reaslistic game experience. If players do stuff they wouldn't normally do in real life, it annoys them to see it happen in the game. Before you attack back, check your associations either now or when you're further into the season and check things like shooting percentages, points in the paint and two or three other stats, go to NBA.com and compare them with the team you're playing with and the league stats.

I know sliders are imperfect, but a lot people who use sliders aren't using them to make the game easier to beat. They're using them because without them the CPU shoots over %50 every game, or Jordan Farmer finishes in the lane every time, or some other thing that is glaringly unrealistic that makes the game less fun.

P.S. the Knicks were 6-5 when they traded Crawford and Randolph get your facts straight.

Man I was bugging last night. Let me get somethings out first. The knicks were definitely 6 and 5. I actually had tickets to go to the game against the Thunder (the Knicks were 6-3 at that point) and never went (Crawford and Randolph both had 29).

That's just in excusable. My fault.


1)Shannon Brown playing the point and Shannon Brown in at point are two different things.

2) He wasn't the primary ball handler, Odom and Kobe were

3) In terms of Defensive alignments, what is common for the Lake show? I mean it's not like we'll ever see someone like Kobe ever guard people like Westbrook and Rondo because Fisher just doesn't move like he used to....wait a minute...

4) My decision to play Barnes (who's only been in the league 7 years, by the way) and Fisher in the second half was part, learning the way the Lakers play, part not wanting to get burned off the dribble and all playing within the scheme of what I wanted to do. In the second half (particularly during 4th Kobe), the line-up was Fisher, Bean, Barnes, Artest, Gasol. I would say with some confidence that at some point, you may see that line-up on the floor if Odom is in foul trouble.

5) More importantly, If you change the sliders to produce more realistic stats, how do you account for intangible items? How do you replicate the effect that Barnes and Artest have offensively when on the court together? There's no slider for that. Critiquing the decision to start Brown at the 1 is one thing (it's a risky coaches decision based on my belief that starting him gives me the best opportunity to win the game), nerfing his or anyone elses ability is another (it's a preference based decision to change the way the entire game behaves for a specific outcome). Ratings will rise and fall over the year and 2K has always done a great job with that BUT changing the way that people react via slider when a players rating corresponds with that slider is changing more parts of the game then you realize.

When there are more than 2 to 3 games played by all the teams, I will check back on my association stats. HOWEVER, it's fair to note that I don't/won't coach my team the way that Larry Drew will. I will more than likely have to trade Bibby because he wants more PT and I wont give it to him (and is becoming an nuisance). Is that realistic? No. I'm not going to force myself into what doesn't work for the system that I want to implement. I want Josh Smith to win Defensive Player of the year. That means, during practice my emphasis will be on defense, with him at the Focal point. That means during live practice, he will be working on challenge shot. Is that realistic? Not really, well I should say not yet. My team will probably shoot somewhere in the low 60's, high 50's in free throw %. Is that realistic, hell no. I play with 100 Free Throw difficulty (it's really the only way to make shooting free throws in the clutch nerve racking. Anyone could simply learn their players timing and get the shot up in 5 seconds, *hall of fame* it's more suspenseful knowing that if you have a slight hitch in your release, the ball will respond to it).

[Chessboxer1]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

5) More importantly, If you change the sliders to produce more realistic stats, how do you account for intangible items? How do you replicate the effect that Barnes and Artest have offensively when on the court together? There's no slider for that. Critiquing the decision to start Brown at the 1 is one thing (it's a risky coaches decision based on my belief that starting him gives me the best opportunity to win the game), nerfing his or anyone elses ability is another (it's a preference based decision to change the way the entire game behaves for a specific outcome). Ratings will rise and fall over the year and 2K has always done a great job with that BUT changing the way that people react via slider when a players rating corresponds with that slider is changing more parts of the game then you realize.

When there are more than 2 to 3 games played by all the teams, I will check back on my association stats. HOWEVER, it's fair to note that I don't/won't coach my team the way that Larry Drew will. I will more than likely have to trade Bibby because he wants more PT and I wont give it to him (and is becoming an nuisance). Is that realistic? No. I'm not going to force myself into what doesn't work for the system that I want to implement. I want Josh Smith to win Defensive Player of the year. That means, during practice my emphasis will be on defense, with him at the Focal point. That means during live practice, he will be working on challenge shot. Is that realistic? Not really, well I should say not yet. My team will probably shoot somewhere in the low 60's, high 50's in free throw %. Is that realistic, hell no. I play with 100 Free Throw difficulty (it's really the only way to make shooting free throws in the clutch nerve racking. Anyone could simply learn their players timing and get the shot up in 5 seconds, *hall of fame* it's more suspenseful knowing that if you have a slight hitch in your release, the ball will respond to it).

1.) I re-read my post and if i seem combative in any way, i apologize. I'm pretty sick, and i hadn't slept in about 19 hours.

2.)Shannon Brown himself is a poor start at PG, not because of the defensive match-ups for the lakers, but because offensively he is so-so ball handler at best, and any sort of light press by the opposing pg would funke his world up, causing Kobe or artest to be ball handlers instead of finishers.

However if you're starting Lamar Odom over Bynum the decision to start Brown has less of an impact. Without Odom you would have difficulty finding someone getting other people shots. Kobe and Pau are excellent passers, but they aren't guys that should be initiating offense for others unless they can't score themselves.

3.)It's perfectly fine that you want to make free throw shooting as difficult as possible. Also it's great that you have your own coaching style and you don't follow Larry Drew's. Hell in 2K10 i scrapped 7 seconds or less for the Knicks and turned them back into 7 bodies or less (on the floor each defensive possesion) like in the mid 90's. But that's the beauty of the game. I you choose to make freethrow shooting difficulty as high as possible it gives you the effect you're looking for when playing the game. If i however turn the dunk rating down in 2K10 so i don't have to see reverse windmills in traffic (exaggeration) then it means i want to enjoy the game a certain way.

You give some good advice to help people beat the game. But it's not necessary to knock people for editing sliders to try and get the best experience possible for them. However, i totally agree that people who argue over accessories can be pretty annoying at times. Still, they have a place on this site like everyone else.

[Sam Marlowe]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

The pretty ridiculous blanket statement by the OP on sliders understandibly turned alot of people off even though he made some good points. Some of the best minds we have in the bball gaming community (Rashidi among others) have put in serious work explaining the flaws in this game and possiblie fixes for them. Its been said but its worth saying again-more challenging does not mean more realistic. If I lose a game at the last second because the CPU called KB's number off a double screen and he beat his man thats fine. But if I lose because Paul Gasol jumped 40 inches in the air to grab a rebound for the put back and theres no way to box him out, thats not ok.Sliders are one of the ways gamers deal with these contingencies.

[The Fight]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

On slider adjustments:

I think those of us that do adjust them, as we adjust rosters, and as you yourself adjust coach profiles, game speed and whatever else, there might just be a fundamental disagreement on whether this game plays well by default.

I'm of the opinion that there are serious design flaws in a few departments, and so, I tweak sliders, rosters, and anything else 2K hasn't gotten to patching yet. I'll agree with most of the posters here that you're intentions and your tips are fine, but this idea that messing with the sliders is done solely by people who don't understand or don't employ the basic fundamentals and strategy of basketball is just flat-out wrong.

Most players are tweaking to achieve realism, not to lower difficulty. We could drop to Superstar or All-Star if that was the aim.

The OP marginalizes those of us that adjust sliders right off the bat. It only serves to suffocate the point you're trying to make.

Let put something back into perspective, I've played on different slider levels before, looking for something more realistic (and I've played on Arcade to see how it feels, wont do it again). I've also played with custom rosters and tweak coaching profiles. What I've found is that NO MATTER WHAT, you're still trying to beat the game at the game.

All of that being said, I find that anyone's sliders who uses Hands and Vertical at 0, make the game WAY too easy. Total control passing becomes unnecessary and downright cheesy. Same thing with right stick cutting.

Passing in this game is difficult (reminder: I play HOF/Sim) by default. However, being that you can simply press the pass button, right stick pass, icon pass, icon lead pass, touch pass, jump pass, give and go (pass), lob pass, inbound lob pass, roll-the-ball inbound and total control pass, there are enough weapons (I count 11) to counteract the difficulty of the passing game with out altering how the game behaves.

Diluting my original point to "people not knowing fundamental basketball so the changed the sliders" is only going to make me laugh at you. Let me paraphrase myself:

1)If you don't know fundamental basketball, and choose to free flow through a game and get mad because you lost, lower the difficulty/do what ever the hell you want.

2)If you do know fundamental basketball, call plays**(I have to come back to this), get open looks and miss, then determine that the game isn't playing realistically so you change the sliders, read the tips. If you belong to latter, and you think that there is nothing wrong with changing the sliders, let me drill this into you:

KNOW FUNDAMENTAL BASKETBALL AND EXECUTING IT ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS! KNOWING WHAT AND WHERE TO DO A MOVE, BE IT ISOMOTION OR A BALL FAKE, MATTERS A GREAT DEAL. MISSING OPEN JUMPERS ARE IN FACT PART OF THE GAME. UNFORTUNATE AND FRUSTRATING, SURE, BUT STILL PART OF THE GAME. GETTING BUMPED ON THE PERIMETER IS A DETERRENT, WHAT DO YOU DO TO COMBAT THAT? WHAT DO YOU DO WHEN SOMEONE IS CHEATING OVER THE TOP OF SCREENS AND THE HELP DEFENSE IS PLAYING THE PASSING LANE? HOW DO YOU SPOT MISDIRECTION PLAYS? HOW DO YOU GET THE BALL TO THE HOT HAND WHEN THE D IDENTIFIES THE PLAY AND REACTS ACCORDINGLY? ALL OF THESE SITUATIONS CAN LEAD TO A TURNOVER IF PLAYED INCORRECTLY. I'VE WATCHED PEOPLE (EVEN THOSE WHO HAVE CHALLENGED ME) GO OUT AND USE FUNDAMENTAL BASKETBALL WITH LIGHT D BUT THROW IT OUT OF THE WINDOW WITH PRESSURE OR DURING A RUN, THEN COMPLAIN ABOUT SOMETHING THAT'S NOT REALISTIC OR BROKEN IN THE GAME THAT NEEDS A PATCH. IT'S ANNOYING!

Last point and it's about play calling. I turned on my 360 this morning while getting ready for work just to see who was on and I had a message from someone (who had PM'ed me on here) telling me that certain plays are broken because the passes you have to make always get tipped or stolen. They go on to say "they make it easy to see where you should pass to, the A bubble is right over they head..." If you call plays and the passing bubbles appear over someone's head, you don't have the play art on full. In addition to this, a defaults to passing to that particular player no matter where you are (as long as the play doesn't break). That's a turnover waiting to happen. I got to stress this because there is a lot of people who don't change coaching settings, just their coaches tendencies. People who play with auto-subs, auto-timeouts, auto-play calls and auto-late game fouling (basically they don't change any of these settings). That changes the game significantly.

[Sam Marlowe]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

^^^
Lol...

[luckeeloo]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

Caps Lock and repetition don't add any credence to what you're suggesting. You're also arguing against points that no one here is making.

Just take a look at your own Simulation sliders next time you get a chance and tell me that those values weren't adjusted to create what you consider a pure "sim" experience. A real purist plays Default, game speed 50, whatever the difficulty. You're playing on a slider tweak yourself. The truth is, like so many player attributes in this game, the slider sets seem to have been slapped together without much thought. "Simulation" isn't hard-mode for most of us and it certainly doesn't properly simulate the real thing.

Some of us just mess around to achieve better versions of "sim", sometimes even by strengthening the CPU opponent. Again, just looking for realism, not an easier jumpshot.

[Sam Marlowe]

Re: Rant: Helping you out of necessity and insipid rage

^^^
It never hurts to throw in a good strawman or two lol.