What should Blake Griffin be rated?

[mucusfriend]

Re: What should Blake Griffin be rated?

Overall rating is for fanboys. It's whole concept is totally flawed (players asking max contracts, not accepting role player's minutes). I wish 2k got rid of it but fanboys are good for marketing

[HARLEE23]

Re: What should Blake Griffin be rated?

If he played like he does in real life online you all would call it cheesing. I would use the clippers everytime then.

[Po Pimp]

Re: What should Blake Griffin be rated?

I have my own issues with the ratings system I won't go into (i.e. Dwight Howard and Kevin Love both having 99 rebound ratings in both categories when Dwight's athleticism and height will make him a leading rebounder EVERY TIME...but I digress).

Anyway, I think Blake's dunk rating should be atleast 95 (same as Dwight Howard and Josh Smith). I think his overall rating is being penalized because he's a rookie, but 22 and almost 13 boards a game don't lie. And to whoever said an 85 because he scored 47 points (his second 40 point game this year by the way) is too much....well he had 47 and 14, while missing only 5 shots, and his double-double streak just ended yesterday after like 27 consecutive games, and he had a streak of 20-10 games end just the other day after like 18 games...He's been consistent, so an 85 is definitely justified if John Wall currently sits at 84. Blake isn't Brandon Jennings after a 55 point game seven games into the season...he's been consistent all year. CONSISTENCY is the key word of the day

[Po Pimp]

Re: What should Blake Griffin be rated?

You guys are looking at one game... Im not.
I didnt even mention his 47pt game and actually changed Griffin and Gordons rating and tendencies before that game even happened because I felt they deserved the boost and wanted more accurate sim stats. Check the association board for proof. The sim stats were accurate and playing with both players felt more like their real life counterparts. Its contradictory to say that we read into OVR too much than say an 85 for him is too high. It seems like you guys are discrediting his ability just because he is a rookie. A rookie that is having the 3rd best rookie season in the last 40 years. Only Jordan and the Admiral were better.

This whole ratings argument goes back to the fact that they dont update ratings enough in the so called Living Rosters. If the rosters were updated on a regular basis that 10 game stretch and beyond would be reflected in players who are hot and also who are struggling. Griffin has been an 82 for the last two months.

Also as far as me giving you the so-called league pass story... it was just a reminder that I dont just watch highlights and go "crazy" on the ratings.
I have League Pass and dont have the time to watch every single game; so have fun "downloading" and watching every single game.

I understand Im a new guy around OS so you guys are going to discredit my opinion and think its "crazy" thats the only reason Ive continued to defend it with facts/stats, & expert analysis from credible sources.
It just amazes me that you guys are so quick to jump on an opinion with no true counter of your own. "Your just looking at one game or your acting like hes a veteran All-Star." That to me is "crazy."

I could've sworn Shaq averaged 23 and 14 and almost 4 blocks as a rookie. Even Iverson averaged almost 24 points with over 7 assists (and a rookie record of 4 consecutive 40-point games and even a 50 point game).

[CFRMIC$]

Re: What should Blake Griffin be rated?

90 easy!!!

[lord meth]

Re: What should Blake Griffin be rated?

LMFAO!!! This thread made me laugh so hard lol
Goodness folks lol
Are we all at least "mature" enough to realize this is just the internet??
People getting all bent out of shape like someone said he was garbage in real life or some shizz...
I never realized how seriously some people take something as insignificant as MUTHA'FLIPPING SIM STATS!!!!

Let me repeat that...not in-game performance, but SIMULATION STATS (as in Im not even playing as him, I just want his stats to look nice on my screen)

ROFL!

[cubsball899]

Re: What should Blake Griffin be rated?

I disagree he should be WAY higher than Jackson and Wallace who are previous All-Stars.
I do understand his numbers should increase(22 -13) and reflect his current production, but you cant omit/not factor in a players history/career production.
Wallace averaged 10 rbs and was an All-Star last year plus All Defensive team.
Jackson has a ring(long time ago), and is a Top 10 SF. No need to list his Playoffs heroics.

what does Wallace and Jackson production in the past have to do with their or Blake's rating now?

His rating and tendencies arent right on the official 2k ratings... hes currently an 82 OVR
Im looking at this from an association standpoint...
Ive simmed countless 1st seasons in association mode and Blake never comes close to winning rookie of the year. John Wall always wins ROY and Blake usually only averages 13-15PPG & 9-10RPG.
I started a new association recently and boosted his rating to an 85 making minor tweaks to his physical attributes and tendencies.
He's currently averaging 22.5PPG and 12.8RPG IRL.
I adjusted the rotation to what it is IRL for this assoc.(Kaman on IR)
In the assoc. Griffin made 3rd team All NBA but still lost to Wall in ROY.
Though his averages were right on par with real life... 21PPG and 11.5RPG.
Im currently at work so I cant look at the ratings right now...
If anyone is interested in what those attribute changes were let me know!

john wall has been ridiculously overrated all year lol.

and brew... can you PM me that espn insider article you've sparked my curiousity- thanks!

[BATMON]

Re: What should Blake Griffin be rated?

what does Wallace and Jackson production in the past have to do with their or Blake's rating now?!

Wallace - 18 -10 - Last Season, which ended in May. 4 months later the season starts. He didnt lose his skill over the summer. His default rating reflects his production.

"WAY better" is silly fan talk.

[RedmanR]

Re: What should Blake Griffin be rated?

LMFAO!!! This thread made me laugh so hard lol
Goodness folks lol
Are we all at least "mature" enough to realize this is just the internet??
People getting all bent out of shape like someone said he was garbage in real life or some shizz...
I never realized how seriously some people take something as insignificant as MUTHA'FLIPPING SIM STATS!!!!

Let me repeat that...not in-game performance, but SIMULATION STATS (as in Im not even playing as him, I just want his stats to look nice on my screen)

ROFL!

LoL. . . I here you man... some people are too... caught up in simulated statistics that it's hard to believe they actually have time to enjoy the game. I mean... don't get me wrong it's great to see near IRL stats but it's certainly not worth getting tight over.

It's still a video game

[lord meth]

Re: What should Blake Griffin be rated?

what does Wallace and Jackson production in the past have to do with their or Blake's rating now?




john wall has been ridiculously overrated all year lol.

and brew... can you PM me that espn insider article you've sparked my curiousity- thanks!

Offensively, he's streaky. But defensively, he's not too shabby.

LoL. . . I here you man... some people are too... caught up in simulated statistics that it's hard to believe they actually have time to enjoy the game. I mean... don't get me wrong it's great to see near IRL stats but it's certainly not worth getting tight over.

It's still a video game

Indeed bro. I get a good laugh from these sim heads, but it aint hurting me so its coo.

[mucusfriend]

Re: What should Blake Griffin be rated?

When I said rating is flawed I meant overall chemistry's formula. Fanboys say, he should be rated 95 he's the best. No fanboy cares about individual ratings only overall. Overall rating causes all the problems in association mode. No fanboy can understand this.

[StickeeGreen]

Re: What should Blake Griffin be rated?

Well...I don't know about his overall, but his dunk should be 95 and his vertical should be 99...

[Brew]

Re: What should Blake Griffin be rated?

I could've sworn Shaq averaged 23 and 14 and almost 4 blocks as a rookie. Even Iverson averaged almost 24 points with over 7 assists (and a rookie record of 4 consecutive 40-point games and even a 50 point game).

Hollinger was making this statement according to PER(Player Efficiency Rating) not just overall season stats. Here is the article:

Normally at this time of year, I might write a column that compares the various Rookie of the Year candidates in order to help sort out a tight race.


Uh, not this year.


Blake Griffin has run away with that honor, with Monday night's 47-point outburst against the Pacers serving as the exclamation point on what's almost certain to be a unanimous vote. (Unfortunately, we're required to say "almost" given the long history of moron homer votes that have kept other obvious winners from unanimity).


Griffin is blowing away the competition so badly that he has a seven-point player efficiency rating lead on his closest rookie rival, Washington's John Wall; Griffin's estimated wins added (EWA) is greater than that of his five closest rivals combined. Overall, he ranks 14th in the NBA in PER and, in spite of his team's awful record, seems a near-lock to make the All-Star team. That's through half a season of work, but given that most rookies see their numbers improve in the second half of their first season, he's likely to move up the charts further.


Sunday's explosion added to his massive list of superlatives, while placing him in some rather select company. According to Elias, Griffin's point total was the most this season. His 19-of-24 shooting, for 79.2 percent, was the best percentage by a rookie taking at least 20 shots in more than a quarter center (Hakeem Olajuwon shot 18-of-22 on Dec. 6, 1984). He joined Shaquille O'Neal as the only rookies in the last quarter century to have a 45-10 game, and joined Michael Jordan and Rick Barry as the only rooks to have at least 47 points and 14 rebounds in the same game.


Griffin is 12th in scoring, fourth in rebounding, and has an amazing streak of 27 straight double-doubles. He's been so good that the Clippers have become a must-see team in spite of the fact that they're 10 games under .500 and, having played more home games and fewer road games than any team in the league, are likely to slip even lower.


So there's no Rookie of the Year race to analyze. Instead, we're left with a more historic question: Is he having one of the best rookie years ever? And if so, where does it rank?
Great recent rookie seasons, pace-adjusted to 2010-11

PAP40=Pace-adjusted points per 40 minutes; PAR40=Pace-adjusted rebounds per 40 minutes; PAA40=Pace-adjusted assists per 40 minutes
<TABLE><THEAD><TR><TH>Player</TH><TH>PAP40</TH><TH>PAR40</TH><TH>PAA40</TH><TH>PER</TH></TR></THEAD><TBODY><TR class=last><TD>David Robinson, 1989-90</TD><TD>24.9</TD><TD>12.3</TD><TD>2.1</TD><TD>26.3</TD></TR><TR class=last><TD>Michael Jordan, 1984-85</TD><TD>27.4</TD><TD>6.3</TD><TD>5.7</TD><TD>25.8</TD></TR><TR class=last><TD>Blake Griffin, 2010-11</TD><TD>24.1</TD><TD>13.7</TD><TD>3.6</TD><TD>23.3</TD></TR><TR class=last><TD>Shaquille O'Neal, 1992-93</TD><TD>23.7</TD><TD>14.0</TD><TD>1.9</TD><TD>23.2</TD></TR><TR class=last><TD>Terry Cummings, 1982-83</TD><TD>23.6</TD><TD>10.6</TD><TD>2.5</TD><TD>22.8</TD></TR><TR class=last><TD>Tim Duncan, 1997-98</TD><TD>22.6</TD><TD>12.8</TD><TD>2.9</TD><TD>22.6</TD></TR><TR class=last><TD>Chris Paul, 2005-06</TD><TD>18.6</TD><TD>5.9</TD><TD>9.0</TD><TD>22.1</TD></TR><TR class=last><TD>Chris Webber, 1993-94</TD><TD>20.4</TD><TD>10.6</TD><TD>4.2</TD><TD>21.7</TD></TR><TR class=last><TD>Hakeem Olajuwon, 1984-85</TD><TD>21.0</TD><TD>12.1</TD><TD>1.4</TD><TD>21.1</TD></TR><TR class=last><TD>Alonzo Mourning, 1992-93</TD><TD>22.9</TD><TD>11.2</TD><TD>1.1</TD><TD>20.8</TD></TR><TR class=last><TD>Elton Brand, 1999-00</TD><TD>22.5</TD><TD>11.2</TD><TD>2.1</TD><TD>20.6</TD></TR><TR class=last><TD>Magic Johnson, 1979-80</TD><TD>17.6</TD><TD>7.6</TD><TD>7.2</TD><TD>20.6</TD></TR><TR class=last><TD>Larry Bird, 1979-80</TD><TD>21.3</TD><TD>10.4</TD><TD>4.5</TD><TD>20.5</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>




To answer that question, I went to the archives. As it turns out, Griffin's rookie year (so far) isn't the best in history … I'd say Wilt Chamberlain has that pretty safely salted away by jumping out of the gate with a 37.6-27.0 campaign in 1959-60.


Nonetheless, it's still pretty amazing. The first thing one notices is the players he's being compared to -- Griffin is on a trajectory that few have approached, and rookies of this quality virtually always turn into superstars. For instance, Griffin is on pace to be the seventh rookie to average more than 22 points and 12 rebounds in a season; five of the other six are in the Hall of Fame and the sixth, Shaquille O'Neal, is a mortal lock to join them.


Of course, most of the great rookie seasons happened in the 1950s and 1960s, when (a) players rocketed into the league with four years of college experience, and (b) the college game was a better learning ground because everybody else stayed four years too. Griffin, for instance, won't be touching Wilt's rookie numbers, or the Big O's near triple-double campaign of 30.5-10.1-9.7 in 1960-61.


In the past four decades or so, however, players have routinely left school early and taken more lumps as NBA rookies. In that light, Griffin's rookie season seems even better. Only two rookies in the past 40 years have exceeded Griffin's current 23.26 PER, and one of them was a 24-year-old David Robinson. The other was a fairly decent player by the name of Michael Jordan.


Everybody else takes a back seat to Griffin. EVERYBODY. Shaq, Duncan, Magic, Bird -- no dice, fellas. The comparison of Griffin to other dominant big men of recent vintage is particularly noteworthy. Once we adjust for pace and minutes, as I've done in the chart, his rookie season seems completely in place next to those of Robinson, Duncan, Shaq, and Olajuwon. And in one respect (his passing ability) he's already far beyond them and nearly into Larry Bird/Chris Webber territory.


The other thing you'll notice from the chart, again, is the quality of the comparables. Of the other 12 best rookies in the past three decades, all but two are either in the Hall of Fame or well on their way. We'll try really hard to ignore the fact that the two exceptions both played for the Clippers.


Keep in mind, too, that we're comparing Griffin's half-year numbers against the other player's full-year numbers. But Griffin is still ramping up -- his scoring, rebounding and assist numbers have improved dramatically every month. Griffin averaged only 20.9 points and 11.7 boards in November; in January he's at 27.6 and 14.4. At this rate, his April numbers are going to be the stuff of video games.


Sum it all up and we're left with only one conclusion: Griffin isn't just another Rookie of the Year. He's, most likely, a superduperstar. Basically, his career represents the collision of two trends that have had few, if any, exceptions: The first, that players who play this well this early virtually always become all-time greats, and the second, that the Clippers are cursed. L.A.'s "other" team will have its fingers crossed that the first trend can overcome the second.

[Brew]

Re: What should Blake Griffin be rated?

LMFAO!!! This thread made me laugh so hard lol
Goodness folks lol
Are we all at least "mature" enough to realize this is just the internet??
People getting all bent out of shape like someone said he was garbage in real life or some shizz...
I never realized how seriously some people take something as insignificant as MUTHA'FLIPPING SIM STATS!!!!

Let me repeat that...not in-game performance, but SIMULATION STATS (as in Im not even playing as him, I just want his stats to look nice on my screen)

ROFL!

I know man this shizz is so funny haha! ROFL! LMAO! HAHAHA!!!
I dont know how he can sleep at night!!
More people should make "mature" post like yours!!

[travis72]

Re: What should Blake Griffin be rated?

Hollinger was making this statement according to PER(Player Efficiency Rating) not just overall season stats. Here is the article:

Normally at this time of year, I might write a column that compares the various Rookie of the Year candidates in order to help sort out a tight race.


Uh, not this year.


Blake Griffin has run away with that honor, with Monday night's 47-point outburst against the Pacers serving as the exclamation point on what's almost certain to be a unanimous vote. (Unfortunately, we're required to say "almost" given the long history of moron homer votes that have kept other obvious winners from unanimity).


Griffin is blowing away the competition so badly that he has a seven-point player efficiency rating lead on his closest rookie rival, Washington's John Wall; Griffin's estimated wins added (EWA) is greater than that of his five closest rivals combined. Overall, he ranks 14th in the NBA in PER and, in spite of his team's awful record, seems a near-lock to make the All-Star team. That's through half a season of work, but given that most rookies see their numbers improve in the second half of their first season, he's likely to move up the charts further.


Sunday's explosion added to his massive list of superlatives, while placing him in some rather select company. According to Elias, Griffin's point total was the most this season. His 19-of-24 shooting, for 79.2 percent, was the best percentage by a rookie taking at least 20 shots in more than a quarter center (Hakeem Olajuwon shot 18-of-22 on Dec. 6, 1984). He joined Shaquille O'Neal as the only rookies in the last quarter century to have a 45-10 game, and joined Michael Jordan and Rick Barry as the only rooks to have at least 47 points and 14 rebounds in the same game.


Griffin is 12th in scoring, fourth in rebounding, and has an amazing streak of 27 straight double-doubles. He's been so good that the Clippers have become a must-see team in spite of the fact that they're 10 games under .500 and, having played more home games and fewer road games than any team in the league, are likely to slip even lower.


So there's no Rookie of the Year race to analyze. Instead, we're left with a more historic question: Is he having one of the best rookie years ever? And if so, where does it rank?
Great recent rookie seasons, pace-adjusted to 2010-11

PAP40=Pace-adjusted points per 40 minutes; PAR40=Pace-adjusted rebounds per 40 minutes; PAA40=Pace-adjusted assists per 40 minutes
<table><thead><tr><th>Player</th><th>PAP40</th><th>PAR40</th><th>PAA40</th><th>PER</th></tr></thead><tbody><tr class="last"><td>David Robinson, 1989-90</td><td>24.9</td><td>12.3</td><td>2.1</td><td>26.3</td></tr><tr class="last"><td>Michael Jordan, 1984-85</td><td>27.4</td><td>6.3</td><td>5.7</td><td>25.8</td></tr><tr class="last"><td>Blake Griffin, 2010-11</td><td>24.1</td><td>13.7</td><td>3.6</td><td>23.3</td></tr><tr class="last"><td>Shaquille O'Neal, 1992-93</td><td>23.7</td><td>14.0</td><td>1.9</td><td>23.2</td></tr><tr class="last"><td>Terry Cummings, 1982-83</td><td>23.6</td><td>10.6</td><td>2.5</td><td>22.8</td></tr><tr class="last"><td>Tim Duncan, 1997-98</td><td>22.6</td><td>12.8</td><td>2.9</td><td>22.6</td></tr><tr class="last"><td>Chris Paul, 2005-06</td><td>18.6</td><td>5.9</td><td>9.0</td><td>22.1</td></tr><tr class="last"><td>Chris Webber, 1993-94</td><td>20.4</td><td>10.6</td><td>4.2</td><td>21.7</td></tr><tr class="last"><td>Hakeem Olajuwon, 1984-85</td><td>21.0</td><td>12.1</td><td>1.4</td><td>21.1</td></tr><tr class="last"><td>Alonzo Mourning, 1992-93</td><td>22.9</td><td>11.2</td><td>1.1</td><td>20.8</td></tr><tr class="last"><td>Elton Brand, 1999-00</td><td>22.5</td><td>11.2</td><td>2.1</td><td>20.6</td></tr><tr class="last"><td>Magic Johnson, 1979-80</td><td>17.6</td><td>7.6</td><td>7.2</td><td>20.6</td></tr><tr class="last"><td>Larry Bird, 1979-80</td><td>21.3</td><td>10.4</td><td>4.5</td><td>20.5</td></tr></tbody></table>




To answer that question, I went to the archives. As it turns out, Griffin's rookie year (so far) isn't the best in history … I'd say Wilt Chamberlain has that pretty safely salted away by jumping out of the gate with a 37.6-27.0 campaign in 1959-60.


Nonetheless, it's still pretty amazing. The first thing one notices is the players he's being compared to -- Griffin is on a trajectory that few have approached, and rookies of this quality virtually always turn into superstars. For instance, Griffin is on pace to be the seventh rookie to average more than 22 points and 12 rebounds in a season; five of the other six are in the Hall of Fame and the sixth, Shaquille O'Neal, is a mortal lock to join them.


Of course, most of the great rookie seasons happened in the 1950s and 1960s, when (a) players rocketed into the league with four years of college experience, and (b) the college game was a better learning ground because everybody else stayed four years too. Griffin, for instance, won't be touching Wilt's rookie numbers, or the Big O's near triple-double campaign of 30.5-10.1-9.7 in 1960-61.


In the past four decades or so, however, players have routinely left school early and taken more lumps as NBA rookies. In that light, Griffin's rookie season seems even better. Only two rookies in the past 40 years have exceeded Griffin's current 23.26 PER, and one of them was a 24-year-old David Robinson. The other was a fairly decent player by the name of Michael Jordan.


Everybody else takes a back seat to Griffin. EVERYBODY. Shaq, Duncan, Magic, Bird -- no dice, fellas. The comparison of Griffin to other dominant big men of recent vintage is particularly noteworthy. Once we adjust for pace and minutes, as I've done in the chart, his rookie season seems completely in place next to those of Robinson, Duncan, Shaq, and Olajuwon. And in one respect (his passing ability) he's already far beyond them and nearly into Larry Bird/Chris Webber territory.


The other thing you'll notice from the chart, again, is the quality of the comparables. Of the other 12 best rookies in the past three decades, all but two are either in the Hall of Fame or well on their way. We'll try really hard to ignore the fact that the two exceptions both played for the Clippers.


Keep in mind, too, that we're comparing Griffin's half-year numbers against the other player's full-year numbers. But Griffin is still ramping up -- his scoring, rebounding and assist numbers have improved dramatically every month. Griffin averaged only 20.9 points and 11.7 boards in November; in January he's at 27.6 and 14.4. At this rate, his April numbers are going to be the stuff of video games.


Sum it all up and we're left with only one conclusion: Griffin isn't just another Rookie of the Year. He's, most likely, a superduperstar. Basically, his career represents the collision of two trends that have had few, if any, exceptions: The first, that players who play this well this early virtually always become all-time greats, and the second, that the Clippers are cursed. L.A.'s "other" team will have its fingers crossed that the first trend can overcome the second.

Way to do your homework there, very interesting statistics. He is having a amazing year and i do believe he is a superstar in the making barring any serious injury to derail his career. 1 thing the NBA season is a long one and he might burn himself out before seasons end playing at this pace and carrying this team on his back.

As long as the Clipper curse does not set in this team looks very promising with all the young talent in future years.