NBA 2k12 Ratings Reasonable Explanation

[Kurupt_XxX]

Re: NBA 2k12 Ratings Reasonable Explanation

what pisses me off most is LA's 81 mid... compared to other guys who can't shoot it nearly as good as him
Dlee 84, speights 89, pau 89.

LA shoots better than all those guys..

[djsider2]

Re: NBA 2k12 Ratings Reasonable Explanation

You haven't watched a single Knicks game this year have you?

Otherwise you wouldn't be saying such nonsense.

Have you watched one? Amare takes a lot of spotups so his percentage better be higher.

Here's a hypothetical qurstion: if Chris Paul has the ball and is playing pick and pop with amare or kobe. Usually you would send your big to hedge or help contain paul until the pg can recover, leaving a jumpshot for the screener unless rotation help comes.

Based on these ratings, 2k just told us we should always shoot a contested spotup jumper with amare, and not kobe. In fact, kobes is low enough that you probably don't need to rotate over from a guy like jeter, who is deadly from mid range in the open jumper category ... does anyone think this isn't what 2k is saying?

[houston911]

Re: NBA 2k12 Ratings Reasonable Explanation

Nash actually had his best defensive season this treaty in terms of starting Point Guards and was a top 8 this past year in defensive efficiency overall. Hard to believe I know, Calderon of course was in the bottom half (27 or so last time I checked) but Nash actually played pretty good defense this year along with Grant Hill. Just people are so used to seeing our heating about his terrible defense.

i dont care about defensive stats because you can't accurately measure someones defense with a defensive efficiency rating...too many variables

In terms of being able to stop your man from scoring and breaking down a defense, nash is one of the worst pgs in the league

Have you watched one? Amare takes a lot of spotups so his percentage better be higher.

Here's a hypothetical qurstion: if Chris Paul has the ball and is playing pick and pop with amare or kobe. Usually you would send your big to hedge or help contain paul until the pg can recover, leaving a jumpshot for the screener unless rotation help comes.

Based on these ratings, 2k just told us we should always shoot a contested spotup jumper with amare, and not kobe. In fact, kobes is low enough that you probably don't need to rotate over from a guy like jeter, who is deadly from mid range in the open jumper category ... does anyone think this isn't what 2k is saying?

yeah, these midrange ratings for big men are definitely a problem

i used to run pick and pops with guys like al horford on 2k11 all game long and shoot 60% off nothing but 15-18 foot jump shots. smh

im gonna keep posting on the 2k forum for them to add more rating categories on offense

[DukeC]

Re: NBA 2k12 Ratings Reasonable Explanation

Have you watched one? Amare takes a lot of spotups so his percentage better be higher.

Here's a hypothetical qurstion: if Chris Paul has the ball and is playing pick and pop with amare or kobe. Usually you would send your big to hedge or help contain paul until the pg can recover, leaving a jumpshot for the screener unless rotation help comes.

Based on these ratings, 2k just told us we should always shoot a contested spotup jumper with amare, and not kobe. In fact, kobes is low enough that you probably don't need to rotate over from a guy like jeter, who is deadly from mid range in the open jumper category ... does anyone think this isn't what 2k is saying?

Is that not the point? Is that not why Amare is one of the most unguardable big men in the league? Because he CAN hit that jumpshot consistently?

He shot 44% from 16-23 feet and 63% were assisted on. You're supposed to use Amare as a pick and pop shooter.

As far as your second point goes...you're not supposed to be shooting contested mid range jumpers with Kobe and expect to hit them consistently. He shot 38% last season from that range. Of course you're going to miss.

Again, Kobe shot contested jumpers from 16-23 feet. He shot 38%. If you shoot contested jumpers from 16-23 feet, you should expect to hit less than 40% of your shots.

Again, to combat this, you're supposed to be doing work with Kobe in the post...since every single guard in the league is terrible in low post defense. That's where he gets most of his points from. It's mostly around the post game and the threat of him using it.

EVIDENCE

[DukeC]

Re: NBA 2k12 Ratings Reasonable Explanation

i dont care about defensive stats because you can't accurately measure someones defense with a defensive efficiency rating...too many variables

In terms of being able to stop your man from scoring and breaking down a defense, nash is one of the worst pgs in the league



yeah, these midrange ratings for big men are definitely a problem

i used to run pick and pops with guys like al horford on 2k11 all game long and shoot 60% off nothing but 15-18 foot jump shots. smh

im gonna keep posting on the 2k forum for them to add more rating categories on offense

The hell is this!? You do know Horford was nearly automatic from mid range the past two years right (This past season and the year before)? He shot 48% from 16-23 feet during the 2010 season.. This past season he shot 53% from 16-23 feet. 53% percent. 50 freaking 3 percent. Again, why should he not make those most of the time? that's his bread and butter. You're supposed to use him in that situation (the pick and pop) as he was assisted on 90 and 92% of his shots respectively. He is a really really really good spot up shooter from mid-range.

If his shot off dribble was high, then I could see where that might be a problem...but it's not.

EVIDENCE

[djsider2]

Re: NBA 2k12 Ratings Reasonable Explanation

Is that not the point? Is that not why Amare is one of the most unguardable big men in the league? Because he CAN hit that jumpshot consistently?

He shot 44% from 16-23 feet and 63% were assisted on. You're supposed to use Amare as a pick and pop shooter.

As far as your second point goes...you're not supposed to be shooting contested mid range jumpers with Kobe and expect to hit them consistently. He shot 38% last season from that range. Of course you're going to miss.

Again, Kobe shot contested jumpers from 16-23 feet. He shot 38%. If you shoot contested jumpers from 16-23 feet, you should expect to hit less than 40% of your shots.

Again, to combat this, you're supposed to be doing work with Kobe in the post...since every single guard in the league is terrible in low post defense. That's where he gets most of his points from. It's mostly around the post game and the threat of him using it.

I meant uncontested shots off of a pick and pop. That would be open and why isn't kobe able to shoot those the same or better as amare?

And to combat your last point, I'm pretty sure kobe irl would rather be taking uncontested jumpers than posting up. 2k's numbers are telling us how to play with certain players, but those players should just be as good doing other things. That's my biggest gripe. They're basically forcing us not to shoot uncontested jumpers with players like Roy and kobe by giving higher ratings to other people.

[DukeC]

Re: NBA 2k12 Ratings Reasonable Explanation

I meant uncontested shots off of a pick and pop. That would be open and why isn't kobe able to shoot those the same or better as amare?

And to combat your last point, I'm pretty sure kobe irl would rather be taking uncontested jumpers than posting up. 2k's numbers are telling us how to play with certain players, but those players should just be as good doing other things. That's my biggest gripe. They're basically forcing us not to shoot uncontested jumpers with players like Roy and kobe by giving higher ratings to other people.

That's not entirely the case. Kobe is a good mid-range shooter...but he's not going to be taking straight spot up jumpers. He's going to be creating his own shot off the dribble. So, say you do a quick hesitation then pull up. Not only are you involving his mid-range rating, but his shot off dribble rating also. That's the difference between big men like Horford who are good spot up shooters and Kobe. Kobe's ability to make that mid range shot does not decrease...it increases.

How can I explain it. Have you ever seen a guard/forward not take an open 3 immediately after catching a pass? You've seen them take a couple of dribbles before taking the shot right? well, that's the case with Kobe. He needs to take a couple of dribbles to get into his rythm. He is an entirely different player than say, Rip Hamilton, who is primarily a catch and shoot mid-range shooter. The shot off dribble rating covers this aspect. Kobe is better taking a couple dribbles and pulling up than becoming a catch and shoot shooter.

Of course...if you get Kobe a couple of easy baskets and he starts off hot, due to his consistency, he's not going to be missing much anyway, unlike Horford who may have hot and cold streaks.

[RedSceptile]

Re: NBA 2k12 Ratings Reasonable Explanation

i dont care about defensive stats because you can't accurately measure someones defense with a defensive efficiency rating...too many variables

In terms of being able to stop your man from scoring and breaking down a defense, nash is one of the worst pgs in the league



yeah, these midrange ratings for big men are definitely a problem

i used to run pick and pops with guys like al horford on 2k11 all game long and shoot 60% off nothing but 15-18 foot jump shots. smh

im gonna keep posting on the 2k forum for them to add more rating categories on offense

Nash had one of the best isolation, p& r, and field goal percentage allowed in terms of point guards, what're you getting at. That's his defensive efficiency.

[Ken North]

Re: NBA 2k12 Ratings Reasonable Explanation

I meant uncontested shots off of a pick and pop. That would be open and why isn't kobe able to shoot those the same or better as amare?

He is? And he does? It's 14.6% of his offense, his second most used play.

Edit; I just noticed you said pick and pop. The reason why is of course that Kobe is an SG, and is the ball handler in the P&R, whereas Amare is a PF and generally the one that sets the pick?

[stillfeelme]

Re: NBA 2k12 Ratings Reasonable Explanation

The hell is this!? You do know Horford was nearly automatic from mid range the past two years right (This past season and the year before)? He shot 48% from 16-23 feet during the 2010 season.. This past season he shot 53% from 16-23 feet. 53% percent. 50 freaking 3 percent. Again, why should he not make those most of the time? that's his bread and butter. You're supposed to use him in that situation (the pick and pop) as he was assisted on 90 and 92% of his shots respectively. He is a really really really good spot up shooter from mid-range.

If his shot off dribble was high, then I could see where that might be a problem...but it's not.

EVIDENCE

I love those underated shooters especially from the post they will kill you. People would not know Horford was deadly from mid range at least not the people I played against. You can really work your drive and kick game with a Horford. When you play 2K you have to know your roster know who is good at what and know their releases to take full advantages of every situation

[djsider2]

Re: NBA 2k12 Ratings Reasonable Explanation

He is? And he does? It's 14.6% of his offense, his second most used play.

Edit; I just noticed you said pick and pop. The reason why is of course that Kobe is an SG, and is the ball handler in the P&R, whereas Amare is a PF and generally the one that sets the pick?

yes. pick and pop with kobe as the screener, let's say the 1-2 pick and pop (fisher and kobe have done this a few times, defintely not a majority of the offense, but it does exist). if kobe gets an UNCONTESTED shot, 2k is telling me he's only good enough for a 79 rating, where if you replaced kobe with drew gooden, you would probably get a better points per play... that just seems wrong.

[poilbrun]

Re: NBA 2k12 Ratings Reasonable Explanation

Dont see whats so funny about that. I guess u havent really watched the NBA. Anyway I really hate stats. This is why:

To say that Kobe deserves a 78 in mid range is absurd and sounds like ur a *****. If u think stats are a way to judge a player then u can just turn off ur PC now and go bash ur head against the wall. Bashing ur head against a wall has the same logic as saying stats judge players. There is so much more to the game that stats don't measure. Stats definitely don't measure ability. Kobe's ability to hit the mid range shot is as deadly as anyone in history behind MJ. Now there's a difference between a contested mid range shot and a wide open one. Kobe takes mostly contested ones, hence his low percentage. Now if u were to put Kobe Bryant and JR Smith, alone, in a gym, with no one to distract them, tell them to shoot 100 mid range shots. I bet my life that Kobe Bryant will win that one every single time. Now put Dirk in there and he will definitely challenge Kobe. Thats ability, my friends and thats how 2k should count their ratings.

I know this post was made several days ago, but I still had to respond. I couldn't disagree more with the bolded part above: what do you think is the point of ratings in video games? In opinion, it is to represent in the game how the player should play. This is defined by the game engine. What would you say if the engine saw Kobe with a very high mid range rating and would thus decide to make him a guy that only shoots when he's open? How do you know that having a low mid-range but a high shoot in traffic is not excatcly what makes Kobe try to play like Kobe, by duelling defenders and taking contested shots?

Would you really like Kobe to be a guy who only shoots when stationary and open? If you would, then you don't want your game to represent real life.

If 2k12 is perfect, when all is said and done, Kobe will be at 38% shooting from mid-range. My guess? He'll be much higher than that using default settings, since it seems fg percentages are higher than normal. And guess what? Most people will be happy with it, because they have the image of a Kobe who drains everything, when he most definitely did not last year, which seems to be (rightly, IMO), what the ratings are based on.

[nogster]

Re: NBA 2k12 Ratings Reasonable Explanation

This is defined by the game engine. What would you say if the engine saw Kobe with a very high mid range rating and would thus decide to make him a guy that only shoots when he's open? How do you know that having a low mid-range but a high shoot in traffic is not excatcly what makes Kobe try to play like Kobe, by duelling defenders and taking contested shots?

Would you really like Kobe to be a guy who only shoots when stationary and open? If you would, then you don't want your game to represent real life.

You are confusing attributes with tendencies.
If kobe has a high mid it certainly wont make him only take open shots.
His tendencies dictate how he shoots and dribbles and drives etc..

I dont think the issue is really that Kobe is low at mid range. 78 is still a pretty good rating. besides he is rated 99 or something in close which makes him the best close shooter in the game.
I think the issue is that there are many players who are rated too high in the mid attribute based purely on %'s and little on the intangibles like the amount and the contested rate.
I agree seeing the Goodens and speights of the NBA rated higher than kobe in mid is wrong. but again. kobe at 78 is still decent considering how he is the best in the game a few feet closer to the rim.

[Kaanyr Vhok]

Re: NBA 2k12 Ratings Reasonable Explanation

His scoring is 25% on Spot Up, about 25% on transition, 21% in a P&R and about 10% on iso. Rest is by and large insignificant.

Out of the 31 FGs made on Spot Up, (at least) 24 of them were completely unguarded catch & shoot situations.

Weird for a PG but at least it means he wont have a high SoD rating.

[Kaanyr Vhok]

Re: NBA 2k12 Ratings Reasonable Explanation

I love those underated shooters especially from the post they will kill you. People would not know Horford was deadly from mid range at least not the people I played against. You can really work your drive and kick game with a Horford. When you play 2K you have to know your roster know who is good at what and know their releases to take full advantages of every situation

True. I played the Hawks online once and almost blew a 15 point lead to Horford's shooting spree and defense.